F*** Kenny

[PuhChewyChomp]

Every time I look at this thread title I think of the part in the South Park movie where they're at the UN.

-US ambassador clears throat and stands up-
F*** CANADA! -Middle finger-

[Kinky John Fowler]

Originally Posted by Gman5852

So you are telling me you expected a group of people who just witnessed a guy get his legs cut off and then fed back to them, who just got kidnapped, and are worrying for the sake of the rest of the group, and the risk of an incredibly strong zombie about to rise to think of that complex a plan?

The human race has come up with far more complex plans in far more testing circumstances so I cannot see why not, like has been mentioned though this is just one of many solutions.

Lily's belt could have been used to wrap his jaw, other items of clothing too could have restrained him, shirt, jeans, jackets etc, take them off and get wrapping.

[Xarne]

just an fyi, I am disliking Kenny more and more with every playthrough, and ya I think he keeps Lee around cause he's useful in protecting Kenny's family.
So I did a test and I sided with Larry/Lily and every turn. Was ready to kick duck out; sided with Lily at the motor inn; fed Larry/Lily at the Motor Inn; even gave him my axe; told Mark he was just looking out for his daughter...Even sided with Lily and tried to bring him back but...this guy is just going to hate you. Period.
So I invited him to chow down on Mark's legs.
In all honesty though, how many of you would really have taken that chance?
Stuck in a 12x12 room with that gorilla once he turned? That's really a no-brainer isnt it?

[PuhChewyChomp]

Originally Posted by Xarne

That's really a no-brainer isnt it?

HA!

[Rommel49]

Originally Posted by Kinky John Fowler

At the time outside of the pharmacy you were just a stranger to Lily so I cannot really blame her for not wanting to help, she has no idea if you are a danger or not (look at how the whole group, including Lee, react to the St Johns outside of their camp, and even the kids trapped in the beartrap initially). Anyway she's certainly not the warmest person at first but she came round to me, we just met in a bad situation. On the other hand you meet Kenny in a quant farmhouse when everything is hunky dory, had it been in a more volotile setting I think he's shown enough in the the first 2 episodes to suggest he wouldn't have helped, just like Lily.

Don't get me wrong I understand his viewpoint, he's lucky enough to still have his wife and child and they are his main priority, every decision he makes will have their interests at heart which is fair enough, however this means that in this group of strangers he's alienated in a way (it was the same with Larry who is apparently a dick, but at the end of the day was similarly only looking out for his daughter).

Lee has Clem to look after but he also clearly understands that the rest of the group need him too and will go out of his way to protect them and help them out with their troubles, he even has time for Larry (if you play it that way).

I see both Kenny and Lily as pretty similar tbh, Lily has shown to me though that she cares about the group and she's also shown to have her reasons for her aggressive personality, I also cannot remember her at any time letting any of the core group down. Kenny seems to disregard the safety and welfare of everyone else for for his family, I just think there has to be a balance, you have to keep your family safe but you also have to have some faith in the group, I don't think Kenny does.

That's the way I see it, realistically, I wouldn't blame anybody for prioritizing their family. Lily's main priority is her father (and one assumes the reverse is also true), just like Lee's main priority is Clementine. However, they do actually care about the group (even Larry expresses concern over Clementine because he doesn't trust Lee). The difference is Kenny's family is his only priority, he doesn't come across as really caring about the group except as a tool to that end.

[deadk1ng]

I would hate to be in a sealed room with a 300 pound gorilla...but wouldnt mind so much watching for a 300 pound man to turn into a zombie where he can slowly shamble arround while the other full grown, highly capable individuals in the room can help me take him out...

[YamiRaziel]

Originally Posted by Xarne

just an fyi, I am disliking Kenny more and more with every playthrough, and ya I think he keeps Lee around cause he's useful in protecting Kenny's family.
So I did a test and I sided with Larry/Lily and every turn. Was ready to kick duck out; sided with Lily at the motor inn; fed Larry/Lily at the Motor Inn; even gave him my axe; told Mark he was just looking out for his daughter...Even sided with Lily and tried to bring him back but...this guy is just going to hate you. Period.
So I invited him to chow down on Mark's legs.
In all honesty though, how many of you would really have taken that chance?
Stuck in a 12x12 room with that gorilla once he turned? That's really a no-brainer isnt it?

Every following playthrough, my despise for Kenny is growing rapidly. At this point I can't even force myself to side with him anymore. I just have to treat him like the trash he is.
And if all Kenny supporters keep claiming that we should act rationally then from the very first choice (Shawn/Duck) we should all always choose Shawn. Duck is a little boy, that is stupid as a bag of hammers (Kenny's words... seriously that guy...). Being the stupid brat that he is, he will probably die or put even more people in danger. He can't contribute to anyone.
Shawn however is the guy that saves you and Clementine. The guy that helps his father protect a family of a many members. The guy that gives you shelter and realizes the potential dangers of walkers roaming around. If we've got to be rational it doesn't make sense to save a little (annoying) kid if you can save a young adult.

[mooneysuzuki]

Originally Posted by deadk1ng

I would hate to be in a sealed room with a 300 pound gorilla...but wouldnt mind so much watching for a 300 pound man to turn into a zombie where he can slowly shamble arround while the other full grown, highly capable individuals in the room can help me take him out...

yeah but he doesn't have to get up to kill one of them, plenty of people have been killed in the comics from walking past a lurker on the ground, and think about it, Lilly was right on top of him, and so is Lee is you choose to help he could have easily bitten one of them.

I understand you guys really have it out for Kenny and i can understand how some of his choices you guys cant agree with, but like Xarne said its a no-brainer

[deadk1ng]

^^^ I would agree with you if I (Lee) hadn't already seen how easy it is to actually fight off a lone zombie. Even when Larry was being an asshole about Duck being bitten he didn't just run up and smash in the boys head or throw him out, instead he argued his case, Kenny did no such thing, just BAM.

And my hatred for Kenny didn't begin with the Larry murder anyway. I never truly forgave Larry for punching me in the face. I was angry because I new that Larry's death had just fucked the group but hadn't wrote Kenny off at that point. It wasn't until he cowared in that stall that I realized what a truly, sorry peice-of-shit he was. Up till that point Me and Kenny were like "peas and carrots."

Now, no matter if you are arguing for or against Kenny, how can anyone (who didn't help him murder Larry) ever be able to trust him in a life or death situation? Thats a no-brainer!

Now will Kenny redeem himself during the next three episodes? I seriously doubt it...but we shall see.

(by the way, Larry was such an asshole that, even though he new about his heart condition, he helped maintain that fence while the totally un-selfish Kenny worked on what...oh yeah, the RV that was only for him and his family.)

[CapnJay]

Originally Posted by deadk1ng

^^^ I would agree with you if I (Lee) hadn't already seen how easy it is to actually fight off a lone zombie. Even when Larry was being an asshole about Duck being bitten he didn't just run up and smash in the boys head or throw him out, instead he argued his case, Kenny did no such thing, just BAM.

And my hatred for Kenny didn't begin with the Larry murder anyway. I never truly forgave Larry for punching me in the face. I was angry because I new that Larry's death had just fucked the group but hadn't wrote Kenny off at that point. It wasn't until he cowared in that stall that I realized what a truly, sorry peice-of-shit he was. Up till that point Me and Kenny were like "peas and carrots."

Now, no matter if you are arguing for or against Kenny, how can anyone (who didn't help him murder Larry) ever be able to trust him in a life or death situation? Thats a no-brainer!

Now will Kenny redeem himself during the next three episodes? I seriously doubt it...but we shall see.

(by the way, Larry was such an asshole that, even though he new about his heart condition, he helped maintain that fence while the totally un-selfish Kenny worked on what...oh yeah, the RV that was only for him and his family.)

I'm reminded of All Thats episode Miss Piddlin's Peas vs Miss Tula's Carrots

[Rommel49]

Originally Posted by deadk1ng

^^^ I would agree with you if I (Lee) hadn't already seen how easy it is to actually fight off a lone zombie. Even when Larry was being an asshole about Duck being bitten he didn't just run up and smash in the boys head or throw him out, instead he argued his case, Kenny did no such thing, just BAM.

And my hatred for Kenny didn't begin with the Larry murder anyway. I never truly forgave Larry for punching me in the face. I was angry because I new that Larry's death had just fucked the group but hadn't wrote Kenny off at that point. It wasn't until he cowared in that stall that I realized what a truly, sorry peice-of-shit he was. Up till that point Me and Kenny were like "peas and carrots."

Now, no matter if you are arguing for or against Kenny, how can anyone (who didn't help him murder Larry) ever be able to trust him in a life or death situation? Thats a no-brainer!

Now will Kenny redeem himself during the next three episodes? I seriously doubt it...but we shall see.

(by the way, Larry was such an asshole that, even though he new about his heart condition, he helped maintain that fence while the totally un-selfish Kenny worked on what...oh yeah, the RV that was only for him and his family.)

I haven't had a good opinion of Kenny since Episode 1, even though we were on good terms. He was a hypocrite even then, e.g. pouncing on Lily for not wanting to save their group when we learn from Katjaa that Kenny wasn't exactly a good samaritan either.

Despite that, I didn't totally turn against him until Episode 2, simply because everybody's hypocritical about stuff at some point. Episode 2 was when he went from hypocrite/coward to sheer dickishness. He was the first one to lay blame on others if things went bad (e.g. Ben), he suggested taking the Dairy by force (when the owners had invited them and offered to feed them), and to steal the supplies from the car (even though it'd screw over the owner if they were still alive).

Let's summarize his track record: He's the first member of the group to kill another member and advocates theft from other survivors. At that point it's pretty much a gamble (and probably a losing one) that he won't eventually rationalize screwing over the group itself as being okay. As Joleen says at the end "It's the living you've got to watch out for. The dead don't kill their own.", anybody who assumes that the lesson of Episode 2 only applies to the St. John's family is making a mistake in my view.

[Sisterofshane]

Originally Posted by Kinky John Fowler

At the time outside of the pharmacy you were just a stranger to Lily so I cannot really blame her for not wanting to help, she has no idea if you are a danger or not (look at how the whole group, including Lee, react to the St Johns outside of their camp, and even the kids trapped in the beartrap initially). Anyway she's certainly not the warmest person at first but she came round to me, we just met in a bad situation. On the other hand you meet Kenny in a quaint farmhouse when everything is hunky dory, had it been in a more volotile setting I think he's shown enough in the the first 2 episodes to suggest he wouldn't have stuck his neck on the line to help, just like Lily.

Don't get me wrong I understand his viewpoint, he's lucky enough to still have his wife and child and they are his main priority, every decision he makes will have their interests at heart which is fair enough, however this means that in this group of strangers he's alienated in a way (it was the same with Larry who is apparently a dick, but at the end of the day was similarly only looking out for his daughter).

Lee has Clem to look after but he also clearly understands that the rest of the group need him too and will go out of his way to protect them and help them out with their troubles, he even has time for Larry (if you play it that way).

I see both Kenny and Lily as pretty similar tbh, Lily has shown to me though that she cares about the group and she's also shown to have her reasons for her aggressive personality, I also cannot remember her at any time letting any of the core group down. Kenny seems to disregard the safety and welfare of everyone else for for his family, I just think there has to be a balance, you have to keep your family safe but you also have to have some faith in the group, I don't think Kenny does.

I honestly have the same opinion of Lilly's character as you, except I would liken most of Kenny's behavior to Larry's as opposed to her. Thinking on my REAL life, I have one daughter just like him - and as much as I love my mother, I don't think I would protect her as aggressively as I would my child (especially seeing as how she is a young Child, like Kenny and Duck). I can sympathize with Kenny too, because despite clearly tending for the group (risking his life to hunt for food, for example) he won't put them ahead of his family. That's why when the group decides to stay at the Motor Inn (possibly because Mark provides them with food which makes it a bit more "cushy"), he sees the writing on the wall (eventually the food is going to run out) and makes the decision to leave with his family. Lilly has her dad, but not any children/husband to care for. It's easier to be a bit more detached when the person you care for is more than capable of taking care of themselves (and we see this a bit with Kenny and Katjaa, with whom he is not shown to be so aggressive about protecting as Duck).

Also from my playthrough, I see Kenny as the kind of character that becomes easily accepting of someone, as long as that someone treats his family with the same regard. If you side with him in the Drug Store, and put the children's well being above all else in each situation, then he all but guarantees you have a place with him in his motor home. He talks about not leaving you behind often - it's clear that, if you treat him like family, he extends the same feelings toward you. And I don't see Lee forming that kind of relationship with anyone else in the group.

I can also see where people who, have up to this point, have sided with him over everything BUT the case in the meat locker, might see his behavior as inappropriate, but I REALLY think he should have another chance. I would be seriously upset with TTG if they don't provide some sort of reconciliation between Lee and Kenny (for those players who want it).

[Sisterofshane]

Originally Posted by YamiRaziel

Every following playthrough, my despise for Kenny is growing rapidly. At this point I can't even force myself to side with him anymore. I just have to treat him like the trash he is.
And if all Kenny supporters keep claiming that we should act rationally then from the very first choice (Shawn/Duck) we should all always choose Shawn. Duck is a little boy, that is stupid as a bag of hammers (Kenny's words... seriously that guy...). Being the stupid brat that he is, he will probably die or put even more people in danger. He can't contribute to anyone.
Shawn however is the guy that saves you and Clementine. The guy that helps his father protect a family of a many members. The guy that gives you shelter and realizes the potential dangers of walkers roaming around. If we've got to be rational it doesn't make sense to save a little (annoying) kid if you can save a young adult.

LOL, I actually did try to save Shawn in my playthrough - not because I valued him more than Duck, but because I figured that EVERYONE had come running when they heard Shawn scream, and that out of the other two adults were there (both of them being Duck's parents), that they would handle Duck while I tried to help Shawn. For a millisecond I regretted it, thinking that Duck was going to die - but then I turned out to be right.

If I had been alone, or I knew that I was the only one who could have responded in time, I probably would have saved Duck. Children ARE important - what's the point of surviving if we don't try to protect our future?

[YamiRaziel]

The point is to protect the present, maybe? During a zombie apocalypse children are liability. Even if you are alone, according to your "I'm a rational player" logic, Shawn should be the first choice. If not, then your rationalism is a bit inconsistent.

[Greedow]

the thing about Kenny its that in reverse situations...i would jump on danny and try to help out...cause 2x1 is better than 1x1.

I don`t hate him because of that(people do get scared or some other stuff) i just don`t trust him anymore

[mooneysuzuki]

Originally Posted by Greedow

the thing about Kenny its that in reverse situations...i would jump on danny and try to help out...cause 2x1 is better than 1x1.

I don`t hate him because of that(people do get scared or some other stuff) i just don`t trust him anymore

well it depends on your choice in the meat locker. If you choose to help Lilly then Kenny does hide but if you help Kenny then he is the one who saves you with Danny while Lilly stays with Larry's body. Also if you choose Kenny Lilly doesn't try to help when Andy has you to the fence, she stares at you and looks down

[YamiRaziel]

Yeah, you helped Kenny kill her dad. Of course she wouldn't care you anymore.
On the other hand if you try to save a guy's life Kenny leaves you to die. What's his excuse? That you disagree with him once?

[Necrosoul]

Originally Posted by deadk1ng

ask yourself this...if the group had to split right now and the two sides were kenny, duck, katja,ben or lilly, carley/doug...who would you rather take clem with?

one side is virtually useless and the other has been the backbone of survival...

Lee, Clem, Doug and Lilly are my team of choice.
i will let Kenny, Katja, Duck, and Ben go their own way.
That way in a week when I stumble across their zombie forms i can laugh and make a vent hole in their heads.

[mooneysuzuki]

Originally Posted by YamiRaziel

Yeah, you helped Kenny kill her dad. Of course she wouldn't care you anymore.
On the other hand if you try to save a guy's life Kenny leaves you to die. What's his excuse? That you disagree with him once?

valid point man but I just relate more to him, plus like i said we know Lilly's future so i guess that just rubs me the wrong way

[YamiRaziel]

mooneysuzuki, her future is actually pretty cool.
I couldn't stand Lori so I'm grateful to Lilly for that. We can't really blame for it cause she was manipulated by the Governor, her entire group was. However, she end's him as well, so in my book she's amazing