Doug or Carley?

[CapnJay]

Originally Posted by Sisterofshane

Haven't played either of them.

it's about post apocalyptic societies attempting to rebuild. new vegas had two diffrent warring factions The guys who were using ancient roman tactics and the guys who wanted modern law and order and bureaucracy and society

[Death689God]

Originally Posted by Sisterofshane

Haven't played either of them.

I have, but back to the point before. There's a difference between hope and fools hope. If you're in it for the long haul, that is to say you're planning for future generations as well, it's natural to have some hope humanity will make it through. The Saint John's and Bandits ARE NOT in it for the long haul. They're very short term, day to day, survival instinct based. They're prepared to live, but they're not long term strategists. (The Saint John's never even keep women around to continue on the family line, and the Bandits have been shown to turn on eachother for the simplest of reasons)

Just because the army won't come in and put things back to the way they were with magic, doesn't mean civilization dies. It simply means civilization as it was does. Tribal civilizations (Zulu, Apache, Celts, etc.) all had Civilization, perhaps not civilized by our standards. But they're a lot closer to what the people of this new world will need... Survivalism, Brutality, Cold-Logic, this doesn't mean you can't be civilized. It just means what you consider "civilized" has to change, as it always has. Civilization is a product of humanity, not the other way around, it changes when we will it to.

[Death689God]

Originally Posted by CapnJay

it's about post apocalyptic societies attempting to rebuild. new vegas had two diffrent warring factions The guys who were using ancient roman tactics and the guys who wanted modern law and order and bureaucracy and society

All three of them sucked, I went Wildcard. :P
Would have gone Legion if it weren't for the Sexism.

[Rommel49]

Originally Posted by Sisterofshane

Bad for Georgia does not necessarily mean bad EVERYWHERE. It's clear that the underlying message is that there is still hope for "rescue" from some outside entity. I think it's harder to view it that way as a player though, seeing as how we know we are only in the first episode of a five part story (couple this with anyone who knows about the Walking Dead universe from the show or the comics, and I can see where a lot of people get on with creating their new world order ). If it was a true disaster, most people wouldn't give up hope after only a few days.

To put it bluntly, if I had to make the decision in episode two, I would probably have been more inclined to be thinking about repopulation than in episode one. As it was, I saw Doug being pulled out of a window by several walkers, and Carley was grabbed by the ankle by one Walker. I definitely thought Doug needed more help.

That's why I said that at a minimum the information we have access to gives us a pretty big clue the problem is atleast statewide, simply based on the distance between Savannah and Atlanta.

However, one could reasonably infer that the infection crossed state borders as well:

The quarantine in Savannah was unsuccessful, Savannah not only has an airport, it has access to the sea. It's also not far from South Carolina.

The lack of apparent military involvement at this point would be a pretty big clue as well that things are looking grim. Georgia's home to Ft. Benning, one of the largest military bases in the nation (incidentally, where I went for basic). Benning's not that far from Atlanta from what I remember; the fact we don't see much in the way of any sort of real military presence near the biggest city in the state implies they already failed (somehow) and couldn't deploy in force to aid the rest of the state.

A good chunk of the characters seem to have some indication the situation could potentially last longer than a few days or get worse, Carley brings up the possibility when she confronts Lee about his past and it being potentially detrimental to the group. Kenny's plan to retreat to his boat is predicated on the situation getting worse.

[CapnJay]

Originally Posted by Death689God

I have, but back to the point before. There's a difference between hope and fools hope. If you're in it for the long haul, that is to say you're planning for future generations as well, it's natural to have some hope humanity will make it through. The Saint John's and Bandits ARE NOT in it for the long haul. They're very short term, day to day, survival instinct based. They're prepared to live, but they're not long term strategists. (The Saint John's never even keep women around to continue on the family line, and the Bandits have been shown to turn on eachother for the simplest of reasons)

Just because the army won't come in and put things back to the way they were with magic, doesn't mean civilization dies. It simply means civilization as it was does. Tribal civilizations (Zulu, Apache, Celts, etc.) all had Civilization, perhaps not civilized by our standards. But they're a lot closer to what the people of this new world will need... Survivalism, Brutality, Cold-Logic, this doesn't mean you can't be civilized. It just means what you consider "civilized" has to change, as it always has. Civilization is a product of humanity, not the other way around, it changes when we will it to.

i'd like to see or read i should say your idea of the next civilization since each one builds on the achievements of the past and becomes greater then the one before it. But with the walker "virus" not having been cured.

[Death689God]

Originally Posted by Rommel49

That's why I said that at a minimum the information we have access to gives us a pretty big clue the problem is atleast statewide, simply based on the distance between Savannah and Atlanta.

However, one could reasonably infer that the infection crossed state borders as well:

The quarantine in Savannah was unsuccessful, Savannah not only has an airport, it has access to the sea. It's also not far from South Carolina.

The lack of apparent military involvement at this point would be a pretty big clue as well that things are looking grim. Georgia's home to Ft. Benning, one of the largest military bases in the nation (incidentally, where I went for basic). Benning's not that far from Atlanta from what I remember, the fact we don't see much in the way of any sort of real military presence near the biggest city in the state implies they already failed (somehow) and couldn't deploy in force to aid the rest of the state.

A good chunk of the characters seem to have some indication the situation could potentially last longer than a few days or get worse, Carley brings up the possibility when she confronts Lee about his past and it being potentially detrimental to the group. Kenny's plan to retreat to his boat is predicated on the situation getting worse.

Good Catch.

[Death689God]

Originally Posted by CapnJay

i'd like to see or read i should say your idea of the next civilization since each one builds on the achievements of the past and becomes greater then the one before it. But with the walker "virus" not having been cured.

That'll take me a while to write out and I don't feel particularly inspired to write it right now. (In debate mode) So you might have to wait till the morrow.

[CapnJay]

Originally Posted by Death689God

All three of them sucked, I went Wildcard. :P
Would have gone Legion if it weren't for the Sexism.

A female Courier working for the Legion is the best playthrough you'll ever get. for one scene in Lonesome Road


Ulysses: Used to be You had to have a weapon between your legs to wield one for the legion.
Female Courier: Is that why you quit?
Ulysses: What do you... Oh you've got Spirit you better save it for the Divide.

[Death689God]

Originally Posted by CapnJay

A female Courier working for the Legion is the best playthrough you'll ever get. for one scene in Lonesome Road


Ulysses: Used to be You had to have a weapon between your legs to wield one for the legion.
Female Courier: Is that why you quit?
Ulysses: What do you... Oh you've got Spirit you better save it for the Divide.

I always wondered if going Female Legion would change the Sexism aspect in the long haul... Might give it a try. But let's get back on track.

[Sisterofshane]

Originally Posted by CapnJay

it's about post apocalyptic societies attempting to rebuild. new vegas had two diffrent warring factions The guys who were using ancient roman tactics and the guys who wanted modern law and order and bureaucracy and society

I know the general idea of what they're about, I just have to be a little choosey about what games I get to play. Tight budgets and time constraints, being the working mom of a two year old!

And @Death689God, you've kind of contradicted yourself countering the point I was trying to make. Brutality? I'm pretty sure that means the opposite of civilized. Besides, the point I was trying to make wasn't that the apocalypse means that society will or won't die - just that within such a short time frame, there really is no reason to assume (unless you're religiously inclined to believe that the dead only come back during this time) that this IS the apocalypse. You want to believe that just because you're looking beyond tomorrow that you are more correct or more apt to survive? Be my guest. To me it's not the sole criterion for choosing who's life I will save (Guess I should feel sorry for Carley, as apparently one of the primary reasons she gets to live is that she is a baby-maker!).

Maybe I'm feelin' this way because I don't play a lot of zombie games, nor do I watch zombie movies or TV shows. Heck, I didn't even know about the Walking Dead until my husband suggested that it was the type of game I might like.

and @ Rommel, One thing I've always considered is that when a major disaster DOES strike, to not count on a quick or timely rescue effort from the government. Even here in CA we're told to have supplies handy for all members of your family for at least a week, and I double that to two weeks just to be safe! So from my point of view, less than a week really isn't enough time to consider outside intervention as "hopeless". I definitely would have abandoned this mindset sometime between episodes one and two.

[Death689God]

Originally Posted by Sisterofshane

I know the general idea of what they're about, I just have to be a little choosey about what games I get to play. Tight budgets and time constraints, being the working mom of a two year old!

And @Death689God, you've kind of contradicted yourself countering the point I was trying to make. Brutality? I'm pretty sure that means the opposite of civilized. Besides, the point I was trying to make wasn't that the apocalypse means that society will or won't die - just that within such a short time frame, there really is no reason to assume (unless you're religiously inclined to believe that the dead only come back during this time) that this IS the apocalypse. You want to believe that just because you're looking beyond tomorrow that you are more correct or more apt to survive? Be my guest. To me it's not the sole criterion for choosing who's life I will save (Guess I should feel sorry for Carley, as apparently one of the primary reasons she gets to live is that she is a baby-maker!).

Maybe I'm feelin' this way because I don't play a lot of zombie games, nor do I watch zombie movies or TV shows. Heck, I didn't even know about the Walking Dead until my husband suggested that it was the type of game I might like.

Yeah, the part I put in Bold really makes a big difference. But we call it the "Apocalypse", not because of any religious connotations, but because it's a word that sums up "The World has just been dashed and thrashed in such a manner it'll never be the same again" A way to say the world's ended, but not really. http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph...mbieApocalypse

Also, you don't really have any Idea what civilized means do you? If you did you'd see there was no contradiction at all (Prepare for a Rant of Colossal Proportions): It means having civilization, and civilization takes on many forms. As with the examples I mentioned, the Zulu, Apache, and Celts were some very brutal people. (Hell the Celts kept heads of fallen enemies outside their home.) The way You're using "civilized", as in a comparative way to other cultures, is really one of the most absurd things you can do. That practice basically started with Greeks and Romans, the term "barbarian" comes from the Romans thinking Non-Romans spoke like this "Barbabrbabrbbar". It's basically like saying "Ching Chang Chong" when talking about Asians. Throughout history whole societies, and even races, were considered "Uncivilized". (Remaining "Civilized" is one of the reasons the end of slavery took so long) It's basically Cultural Tool Waving, whose tool is bigger and can please the most ladies? Anyone that doesn't conform to the persons sense of culture is "Uncivilized", as you can imagine this comes with some Unfortunate Implications. http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph...teImplications
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph...luesDissonance

IMO, using "Civilized" the way you do is in itself Uncivilized. :P

[CapnJay]

Originally Posted by Sisterofshane

I know the general idea of what they're about, I just have to be a little choosey about what games I get to play. Tight budgets and time constraints, being the working mom of a two year old!

If you don't mind used games you can try Glyde. that helps with the budget issues the time and motherhood think well ::shrug::

[Sisterofshane]

Originally Posted by Death689God

Yeah, the part I put in Bold really makes a big difference. But we call it the "Apocalypse", not because of any religious connotations, but because it's a word that sums up "The World has just been dashed and thrashed in such a manner it'll never be the same again" A way to say the world's ended, but not really. http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph...mbieApocalypse

Also, you don't really have any Idea what civilized means do you? If you did you'd see there was no contradiction at all (Prepare for a Rant of Colossal Proportions): It means having civilization, and civilization takes on many forms. As with the examples I mentioned, the Zulu, Apache, and Celts were some very brutal people. (Hell the Celts kept heads of fallen enemies outside their home.) The way You're using "civilized", as in a comparative way to other cultures, is really one of the most absurd things you can do. That practice basically started with Greeks and Romans, the term "barbarian" comes from the Romans thinking Non-Romans spoke like this "Barbabrbabrbbar". It's basically like saying "Ching Chang Chong" when talking about Asians. Throughout history whole societies, and even races, were considered "Uncivilized". (Remaining "Civilized" is one of the reasons the end of slavery took so long) It's basically Cultural Tool Waving, whose tool is bigger and can please the most ladies? Anyone that doesn't conform to the persons sense of culture is "Uncivilized", as you can imagine this comes with some Unfortunate Implications. http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph...teImplications

IMO, using "Civilized" the way you do is in itself Uncivilized. :P

Thanks for the rant, but I'm pretty sure the dictionary disagrees with you. The term "civilized" is used in a manner to describe what is essentially, a more "advanced society". Yes, the word "civilization" is different from "civilized", even though one derives meaning from the other. So go ahead and pull your red herring and compare me to some sort of vile racist (if it suits your ad hominem so well), but don't tell me that I used the meaning of the word wrong. Let me instead point out the word I used to contrast it with, and why I felt you were being contradictory.

You used the word "brutality"...were you NOT just trying to point out being a "long term survivor" didn't necessarily mean that you would end up like the bandits or the St. john's? I brought up "civilized" to prove my point that you are a stone's throw from becoming anarchaeic cannibals...something with which you whole heartedly deny. So what is it, exactly? That our society as we know and define it survives, or we become much more akin to our less technologically advanced members, who still do practice such things as rape, cannibalism, tribal warfare and the like?

[Death689God]

Originally Posted by Sisterofshane

Thanks for the rant, but I'm pretty sure the dictionary disagrees with you. The term "civilized" is used in a manner to describe what is essentially, a more "advanced society". Yes, the word "civilization" is different from "civilized", even though one derives meaning from the other. So go ahead and pull your red herring and compare me to some sort of vile racist (if it suits your ad hominem so well), but don't tell me that I used the meaning of the word wrong. Let me instead point out the word I used to contrast it with, and why I felt you were being contradictory.

You used the word "brutality"...were you NOT just trying to point out being a "long term survivor" didn't necessarily mean that you would end up like the bandits or the St. john's? I brought up "civilized" to prove my point that you are a stone's throw from becoming anarchaeic cannibals...something with which you whole heartedly deny. So what is it, exactly? That our society as we know and define it survives, or we become much more akin to our less technologically advanced members, who still do practice such things as rape, cannibalism, tribal warfare and the like?

Culture & Society are Civilization, and while it does say advanced there's no set criteria for what is advanced. My message wasn't "you're a racist", it's "you're playing the "my culture is better than all other cultures" card" and I used the Stupid racism of a yesteryear, and roman Xenophobia to explain how dodgy a situation that is to be in. All you're doing is comparing other societies, cultures, *cough*civilizations*cough*, to your own and all the while deciding what you think think makes on qualified as being advanced.

Brutality can mean a lot of things, for example: Killing the Saint John's brothers. While I'd be against Rape, and Cannibalism is sort of pointless survival tactics in a landscape where everyone that dies becomes a rotten corpse, I'd still say what survives would be closer to the examples I listed than the "Innocent until proven guilty", Democracy Driven, Politically Correct, Seat Belts and Food Stamps society we live in.

If you're not willing to do the dirty work to ensure future generations come about, you die off. Being a Soccer Mom during the Zombie Apocalypse just gets you the Chomp. You die, your people die, and all of that good old fashioned American home values you've been fighting for die with you. Good Job, you've left the future in the hands of the Bandits instead of becoming Necessary Evil, "retain some Morality where it won't get us killed" 3rd option... Congratulations, your entire genetic line has been wiped out. Hope you're happy Sister.

PS: Go look up civilization in the Dictionary as well.

[Sisterofshane]

Seriously, there is no reason to get so personal. This is spiraling down into a "you don't know jack about ________". If you had taken the time to get to know me and my responses here, I'm pretty sure you'd realize that I am anything but those typical stereotypes you put up there.

And because I refuse to indulge in anger fests on the internet (it's so bad for your blood pressure), I think we're done here.

[Death689God]

Originally Posted by Sisterofshane

Seriously, there is no reason to get so personal. This is spiraling down into a "you don't know jack about ________". If you had taken the time to get to know me and my responses here, I'm pretty sure you'd realize that I am anything but those typical stereotypes you put up there.

And because I refuse to indulge in anger fests on the internet (it's so bad for your blood pressure), I think we're done here.

You're right, I don't know enough about you to make it personally fit you. But I threw those examples up because they're common, and you get the jist of what I'm saying, and that is: If you can't adapt to the new environment, you die. if you die, nothing you were fighting to preserve matters anymore.

You say it's an anger fest, but I clearly put a light hearted ribbing ":P" face at the end. But sure, you can run away from my points under the saying it's getting too personal, while in the same breath saying I don't know enough about you to make it personal, if you'd like... But yeah, you might be done, but just remember "we" aren't done until both parties are. One can, very well, just keep on typing one sided rants until they get everything they think they can say out. Then they're done.

(Oh noes, it's the P face of seriousness and rage again! XD)

[Sisterofshane]

Originally Posted by Death689God

You're right, I don't know enough about you to make it personally fit you. But I threw those examples up because they're common, and you get the jist of what I'm saying, and that is: If you can't adapt to the new environment, you die. if you die, nothing you were fighting to preserve matters anymore.

You say it's an anger fest, but I clearly put a light hearted ribbing ":P" face at the end. But sure, you can run away from my points under the saying it's getting too personal, while in the same breath saying I don't know enough about you to make it personal, if you'd like.

LOL, you TRIED to make it personal and failed. The anger fest would have been mine, if I cared.

[Death689God]

Originally Posted by Sisterofshane

LOL, you TRIED to make it personal and failed. The anger fest would have been mine, if I cared.

I tried to make it feel personal, I can't try to make it actually personal without relevant information. The difference being one puts you in a relevant situation, the other puts you in your situation.

Once again, you seem to be running from the point I was making. I take it as admitting defeat. If it really were just about it becoming too personal, you wouldn't have replied to my last post...

PS: saying I'm getting to personal and ignoring otherwise valid points is the very heart and soul of the Ad Hominem Fallacy.

[Rommel49]

Originally Posted by Sisterofshane

I know the general idea of what they're about, I just have to be a little choosey about what games I get to play. Tight budgets and time constraints, being the working mom of a two year old!

And @Death689God, you've kind of contradicted yourself countering the point I was trying to make. Brutality? I'm pretty sure that means the opposite of civilized. Besides, the point I was trying to make wasn't that the apocalypse means that society will or won't die - just that within such a short time frame, there really is no reason to assume (unless you're religiously inclined to believe that the dead only come back during this time) that this IS the apocalypse. You want to believe that just because you're looking beyond tomorrow that you are more correct or more apt to survive? Be my guest. To me it's not the sole criterion for choosing who's life I will save (Guess I should feel sorry for Carley, as apparently one of the primary reasons she gets to live is that she is a baby-maker!).

Maybe I'm feelin' this way because I don't play a lot of zombie games, nor do I watch zombie movies or TV shows. Heck, I didn't even know about the Walking Dead until my husband suggested that it was the type of game I might like.

and @ Rommel, One thing I've always considered is that when a major disaster DOES strike, to not count on a quick or timely rescue effort from the government. Even here in CA we're told to have supplies handy for all members of your family for at least a week, and I double that to two weeks just to be safe! So from my point of view, less than a week really isn't enough time to consider outside intervention as "hopeless". I definitely would have abandoned this mindset sometime between episodes one and two.

It depends on the form of disaster - we're not talking about a Hurricane or Earthquake where you're waiting on guys like Engineers to rebuild infrastructure or FEMA to hand out blankets, supplies, etc. Hell, I'm not even talking about rescue. We're essentially looking at an invasion in this scenario. You're looking at the deployment of combat troops the instant there's reports that crazy folks have effectively conquered a major city. Getting boots on the ground in that sort of scenario occurs within the same day, not weeks, particularly when one of the main infantry training centers of the country is within 3 hours of it.

As I said, my motivation in saving Carley over Doug was that she had simply demonstrated herself to be more useful at that point, in addition to the fact she had the only firearm in the group. By the same token, it's why Duck's dead last on my list of priorities until/unless he shows something resembling usefulness.

As the saying goes, "Hope for the best, prepare for the worst". Even short term, a good chunk of the values we hold dear in the U.S. will need to go out the window, simply because we'd no longer be able to afford them. In general, things are going to become a lot more harsh just out of necessity. We're looking at a situation where if some shmuck steals your food stocks, they could very well be condemning you and those you care about to death... and incarcerating the guy isn't a realistic option, which leaves either just letting him go, or killing him.

[Demopan]

This has to be the longest, most drawn-out, pointless off-topic argument I've ever seen in any thread ever. *grabs popcorn* Please continue *munch munch munch*