Telltale Games

ezzetabi · 04/24/2008, 11:32 pm

I the whole season the same models, animation are used over and over in the different context.
Of course I all for re-usability of already prepared material, but I found it a little forced sometime.

Few examples, the cake. Old Stinky studied for all life culinary dark art, and the `special cake' (no spoiler for who haven't played 205) was his ultimate dish.
Sam does the same cake in few seconds...
`It burns when.....' just to use the same animation again and again... Not even funny.

Demon forms, just the usual form with a different skin.

Anyone agrees?

What about using your precious work hours more on animation and models and less in annoying protection that stops pirates for maybe two days?

RyanMon · 04/24/2008, 11:56 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by ezzetabi

Few examples, the cake. Old Stinky studied for all life culinary dark art, and the `special cake' (no spoiler for who haven't played 205) was his ultimate dish.
Sam does the same cake in few seconds...

I don't understand what this part has to do with recycling effects. Of course Sam does the cake in a few seconds. Once you know how to do something, you'll do it much faster the second time around. Think about if you ever replay Sam and Max. Even if you're going for all the Easter Eggs the second (or more) time around, it'll take a lot less time than the first time you play, simply because you know where everything is that you need to continue the game.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ezzetabi

`It burns when.....' just to use the same animation again and again... Not even funny.

Well, I can't comment on the humor of it, since everybody's entitled to their own opinions, but this type of thing happens in every game you play. It cuts down big time on the size of the file if you repeat animation that'll happen over and over rather than creating new animation every time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ezzetabi

Demon forms, just the usual form with a different skin.

Although I kinda agree with you here, I think TTG wanted to make them look very similar to their original forms so that the players recognize them. Plus, the outfits were pretty outrageous (one of them, at least). It probably was almost as much work changing the clothes and stuff than creating entirely new models altogether. I remember somebody mentioning that trying to create a bald Brady Culture would have been time-consuming, and so they couldn't do it for one of the episodes.

So, yes, and no, having less recycled stuff would certainly be more entertaining, but not at the cost of the episodes coming out years apart and/or the files being monstrously big. I'm perfectly happy the way things are now.

Mirko · 04/25/2008, 01:14 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by ezzetabi

Demon forms, just the usual form with a different skin.

I think that's supposed to be like that. There was even an ingame Joke about it.

wisp · 04/25/2008, 02:06 am

that joke was indeed a bit self-ironic, because everybody probably was aware that just changing the outfits to burgerking-style wasn't much of a demonform. on the other hand creating several new models just for the showdown would have been rather time-consuming.
..and the cake? i've heard several complaints about that and don't see what's so bad about it. it's just a cake. okay, it's somewhat evil, but why does every single evil cake have to look different?

Ashton · 04/25/2008, 09:01 am

People cant seem to wrap their heads around hte fact that part of the POINT of the earlier bit with stinky was so sam COULD learn to make the cake of the damned, that IS the same cake later on, it was intentional, though apparently the point was most on so many people...

and I agree it would ahve been nice to see them change into real demons similar ins hape to Satan or a gargoyle or something, but I agree it woudl have been mroe time consuming, and also as stated tehre WAS an in-game joke about it (and remember they WERE human even if tehy did gain hellish powers.

**Jake** · 04/25/2008, 09:25 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by ezzetabi

What about using your precious work hours more on animation and models and less in annoying protection that stops pirates for maybe two days?

I don't think our effects artists and character animators have anything to do with the engineering of our download system

InvaderJim42 · 04/25/2008, 09:31 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by ezzetabi

What about using your precious work hours more on animation and models and less in annoying protection that stops pirates for maybe two days?

I highly doubt that they spend hours on every episode rewriting the entire copy protection code... that'd be a very very stupid thing to do. The only time I'd ever expect them to rewrite it was when it was absolutely necessary.

Now I don't want to sound mean here... but maybe you should stuff your complaints about them spending too much time working on something over something else... at least until you've actually worked on a programming project for a company, and know how the design process works.

tabacco · 04/25/2008, 09:55 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by InvaderJim42

Now I don't want to sound mean here... but maybe you should stuff your complaints about them spending too much time working on something over something else... at least until you've actually worked on a programming project for a company, and know how the design process works.

♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥

ezzetabi · 04/25/2008, 10:04 am

Ehy guys... About the last sentence I put a

not by chance. It was a joke. It seems Jake understood at least.
The download system is not there for stop pirates (it does not) it is there to give work to the engineers who work on it. I do know.

About the cake I saw Sam read the recipe, and Stinky spoke about it. Yet it would be far too complex for a emergency situation just the one at the end of the game.
Just a normal cake with the 101 model played better the role imo.

About the demon forms, I read the inner joke, yet it sounded a cheap way to work less.

Anyway, I as I said in the title. I found it a *little* annoying, nothing grave. I loved the season and I think I spent well my money.

**Jake** · 04/25/2008, 10:11 am

I was joking three times more than you were!~!!!!

ezzetabi · 04/25/2008, 10:15 am

In fact I smiled thrice when I read the Jake's post. Thanks!

RobD · 04/25/2008, 10:21 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by ezzetabi

About the cake I saw Sam read the recipe, and Stinky spoke about it. Yet it would be far too complex for a emergency situation just the one at the end of the game.
Just a normal cake with the 101 model played better the role imo.

People need to stop complaining about the plausibility of things that happen in the Sam & Max games. They're an anthropomorphic dog and rabbity-thing (who happens to be the US president too) that fight crime and are befriended by the likes of rats, the head of a statue and the devil. They drove to the moon in a desoto (twice). They died at a zombie rave. They saved Christmas by exorcising a demon. They shot Sybil in the head with a rat fired from a small cannon. The games and events aren't meant to be plausible.

InvaderJim42 · 04/25/2008, 10:49 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobD

People need to stop complaining about the plausibility of things that happen in the Sam & Max games. They're an anthropomorphic dog and rabbity-thing (who happens to be the US president too) that fight crime and are befriended by the likes of rats, the head of a statue and the devil. They drove to the moon in a desoto (twice). They died at a zombie rave. They saved Christmas by exorcising a demon. They shot Sybil in the head with a rat fired from a small cannon. The games and events aren't meant to be plausible.

Well said!

Dangerzone · 04/25/2008, 09:43 pm

wait... sam and max is not plausible??? BLASPHEMY!!!

Avel · 04/26/2008, 12:12 am

Quote:

About the cake I saw Sam read the recipe, and Stinky spoke about it. Yet it would be far too complex for a emergency situation just the one at the end of the game.
Just a normal cake with the 101 model played better the role imo.

Why the heck would that be too complex? It's just a base "what the eff do I have to work with" puzzle combined with the magic of tv cooking time. A regular cake would have been boring by comparison anyways. No 'red' frosting.

Jai · 04/26/2008, 12:23 am

Yeah, that daggum hell-cake was either way less complex or way more complex than baking the cake in that cooking show for Whizzer! Why didn't we have a billion different-looking casseroles and cakes for the cooking show! And I can't BELIEVE how all of the characters always look exactly the same except for when they don't! RAWRG! JAI WILL SMASH!

Ashton · 04/26/2008, 03:35 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jai

And I can't BELIEVE how all of the characters always look exactly the same except for when they don't!

This acctually is a pet peeve of mine for TV/Comics/games... do you know ANYONE that has 100 of the exacty same shirt/pants/shoes/etc in their closite? anyone? I think it'd be nice to see sam wearing a different tie once in a while or featherly with a different sweater or Yergen wearing a jacket or stuff like that.

Ironically, the only characters who's attire changed were the Sodapoppers who were hates/gloves/scarves when tehy visited the north pole... and when they changed to their "demon" forms in the final showdown in 205

Peril · 04/26/2008, 06:25 am

I always remember an episode of "Doug" where Doug actually opens his closet to dozens of the same outfit. It's simple animation logic. People always look exactly the same so that they are easily recognizable. If you start changing up the clothes too much, those who may be slightly unfamiliar with the character may get confused. That and can you imagine the pain to design and animate a different set of clothes for every episode of a cartoon?

Ashton · 04/26/2008, 08:17 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peril

That and can you imagine the pain to design and animate a different set of clothes for every episode of a cartoon?

Not EVERY eppisode, but I've seen some characters acctualyl change clothes between a set of 4-8 outfits. Though usually they do have 1 outfit ot dozens of identical ones...

I do understand, but I also point out that S+M is not a kiddy game, adults can tell quite easily that the dog is sam, no matter what he's wearing... I do understand the horrible pain of making new outfits... in involes using a different texture file for skinning the wireframe........ (yes I've done 3D animation and I know it *Can* be dont this simply, though I dont know if TT is set up to do it that way or not...

Jai · 04/27/2008, 06:21 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ashton

This acctually is a pet peeve of mine for TV/Comics/games... do you know ANYONE that has 100 of the exacty same shirt/pants/shoes/etc in their closite? anyone? I think it'd be nice to see sam wearing a different tie once in a while or featherly with a different sweater or Yergen wearing a jacket or stuff like that.

Well, uh . . . I interpreted what I said . . . differently.

Plus, Sam only HAS that one tie.

04/24/2008, 11:32 pm	#1
ezzetabi Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 154	Effect recycle. I am only one who found it a little annoying? I the whole season the same models, animation are used over and over in the different context. Of course I all for re-usability of already prepared material, but I found it a little forced sometime. Few examples, the cake. Old Stinky studied for all life culinary dark art, and the `special cake' (no spoiler for who haven't played 205) was his ultimate dish. Sam does the same cake in few seconds... `It burns when.....' just to use the same animation again and again... Not even funny. Demon forms, just the usual form with a different skin. Anyone agrees? What about using your precious work hours more on animation and models and less in annoying protection that stops pirates for maybe two days?

04/25/2008, 10:04 am	#9
ezzetabi Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 154	Ehy guys... About the last sentence I put a not by chance. It was a joke. It seems Jake understood at least. The download system is not there for stop pirates (it does not) it is there to give work to the engineers who work on it. I do know. About the cake I saw Sam read the recipe, and Stinky spoke about it. Yet it would be far too complex for a emergency situation just the one at the end of the game. Just a normal cake with the 101 model played better the role imo. About the demon forms, I read the inner joke, yet it sounded a cheap way to work less. Anyway, I as I said in the title. I found it a little annoying, nothing grave. I loved the season and I think I spent well my money. Last edited by ezzetabi; 04/25/2008 at 10:11 am.

04/26/2008, 06:25 am	#18
Peril Clever catch phrase!(tm) Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 34	I always remember an episode of "Doug" where Doug actually opens his closet to dozens of the same outfit. It's simple animation logic. People always look exactly the same so that they are easily recognizable. If you start changing up the clothes too much, those who may be slightly unfamiliar with the character may get confused. That and can you imagine the pain to design and animate a different set of clothes for every episode of a cartoon? __________________ SamLibs: Holy(Adj.)(Noun)of(Noun)(Verb)(Adv.)with a(Adj.)(Adj.)(Noun)! We're on our way!

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04/25/2008, 02:06 am	#4
wisp annoying...and ignored Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: somewhere, Germany Posts: 1,142	that joke was indeed a bit self-ironic, because everybody probably was aware that just changing the outfits to burgerking-style wasn't much of a demonform. on the other hand creating several new models just for the showdown would have been rather time-consuming. ..and the cake? i've heard several complaints about that and don't see what's so bad about it. it's just a cake. okay, it's somewhat evil, but why does every single evil cake have to look different?

04/25/2008, 09:01 am	#5
Ashton Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 1,017	People cant seem to wrap their heads around hte fact that part of the POINT of the earlier bit with stinky was so sam COULD learn to make the cake of the damned, that IS the same cake later on, it was intentional, though apparently the point was most on so many people... and I agree it would ahve been nice to see them change into real demons similar ins hape to Satan or a gargoyle or something, but I agree it woudl have been mroe time consuming, and also as stated tehre WAS an in-game joke about it (and remember they WERE human even if tehy did gain hellish powers.

04/25/2008, 10:11 am	#10
Jake Telltale Team Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 5,843	I was joking three times more than you were!~!!!!

04/25/2008, 10:15 am	#11
ezzetabi Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 154	In fact I smiled thrice when I read the Jake's post. Thanks!

04/25/2008, 09:43 pm	#14
Dangerzone Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 1,048	wait... sam and max is not plausible??? BLASPHEMY!!!

04/26/2008, 12:23 am	#16
Jai Memier Junbor Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 47	Yeah, that daggum hell-cake was either way less complex or way more complex than baking the cake in that cooking show for Whizzer! Why didn't we have a billion different-looking casseroles and cakes for the cooking show! And I can't BELIEVE how all of the characters always look exactly the same except for when they don't! RAWRG! JAI WILL SMASH!