[SPOILERS from page 3]Logic says the Doug/Carly Will Die in Ep 3

[ComixFan]

I honestly see nothing to indicate that either Carly and Doug are "sure" to die in Long Road Ahead. Could there be a choice in the episode that decides which among the party dies? Of course, and Carly or Doug could very well be among those choices. However, while they might be an option for loss/sacrifice, it doesn't mean it's a set part of the story.

The achievement regarding a female character leaving is more likely to do with Lily since her character plays a pivotal role in Rick Grimes' story and the Governor/Woodbury arch in the comics, which TWD Game ties into. Basically Lily will not be staying nor will she die. As for any arguments regarding Carly it seems more like certain people in this thread *want* her to die as opposed to any genuine indications from the game/team that she will. From what I've read, it seems folks are grasping at straws as opposed to showcasing any hard evidence.

From everything we've experienced thus far, I will make the assumption that it's very unlikely that she or Doug is a "sure thing" death; as I mentioned previously it might come down to choosing between saving her or other members of the party, i.e. Ben, Katjaa, Duck, Kenny, or the two new characters introduced in the Talking Dead interview. While our choices, to this point, have been light on effecting the direction of the game's narrative (with the exception of Larry's Death. The choice of who you sided with is likely going to have a massive impact on the events of Long Road Ahead) it seems obvious to me that, with Episode 3, that will change.

The purpose of the first two episodes were to, really, get us into this world through Lee and his choices, shaping the character, and Clem, for the future. Now that we are firmly entrenched in the what TWD world has become, and begun to see the ramifications of our choices, it's a different Ball-Game from this point forward, so speculating accurately is, I think, difficult and making too bold a claim, or dismissing other possibilities outright, is a bit myopic.

So, might Carly/Doug die? Yes, possibly. But I believe they will be a choice among many. To be completely forthcoming it is my hope that she will not die, but that rather she will take on a role for Lee for the next few "seasons" much as Andrea has become for Rick in the graphic novels. Also, for the record, Telltale nor the Walking Dead Game has disappointed me in the slightest and, believe me, I have fairly high standards/expectations of the games I play. I'm sorry others feel otherwise as it means they are not likely to enjoy what Tell Tale has forthcoming considering that, due to the game's success, they aren't likely to change their approach to the game's narrative, characters, or system of delivery/release dates.

[dankirk]

Originally Posted by ComixFan

To be completely forthcoming it is my hope that she will not die, but that rather she will take on a role for Lee for the next few "seasons" much as Andrea has become for Rick in the graphic novels.

Carly has already died for about half the players. She cannot play that crucial a role in the story. Neither can Doug, for the folks that saved him. Since either of them could have died, they are both expendable, and I predict that whoever was saved in episode 1 will perish in episode 3.

[ComixFan]

Originally Posted by dankirk

Carly has already died for about half the players. She cannot play that crucial a role in the story. Neither can Doug, for the folks that saved him. Since either of them could have died, they are both expendable, and I predict that whoever was saved in episode 1 will perish in episode 3.

What logic on you basing that upon? Merely because one or the other could have died in the first episode? Do you honestly believe the writing and programming talent of TWD Team is so limited they could not write a continuing story for both Carly and Doug? The fact that we're asked to choose between them in Episode 1, and their confidant like nature with Lee, only validates the possibility that both are intended to play important roles in the continuing narrative, and not merely as sacrificial characters for Long Road Ahead.

Now does that mean there's no chance they will die? Of course not. However I do believe that we will be given the choice of which central characters will be lost. Clearly it won't be Lily due to her importance beyond Lee's story; however that does leave room for Kenny, Ben, Duck, Katjaa, or either of the two new characters. Episode 5 of Talking Dead indicated clearly that, from this point forward, things get bigger and more complicated, hence introducing two new characters. That does not, however, prove with any degree of finality that Carly or Doug *will* die regardless of our choices.

[dankirk]

Originally Posted by ComixFan

What logic on you basing that upon? Merely because one or the other could have died in the first episode? Do you honestly believe the writing and programming talent of TWD Team is so limited they could not write a continuing story for both Carly and Doug? The fact that we're asked to choose between them in Episode 1, and their confidant like nature with Lee, only validates the possibility that both are intended to play important roles in the continuing narrative, and not merely as sacrificial characters for Long Road Ahead.

Now does that mean there's no chance they will die? Of course not. However I do believe that we will be given the choice of which central characters will be lost. Clearly it won't be Lily due to her importance beyond Lee's story; however that does leave room for Kenny, Ben, Duck, Katjaa, or either of the two new characters. Episode 5 of Talking Dead indicated clearly that, from this point forward, things get bigger and more complicated, hence introducing two new characters. That does not, however, prove with any degree of finality that Carly or Doug *will* die regardless of our choices.

I don't doubt that Telltale could write two completely separate story arcs, depending on which character was saved in ep 1. I doubt that they would do that. The Doug/Carly character will be limited to bit/similar roles, just as they were in ep 2. I stand by my prediction that he/she will be killed in ep 3. I will admit, however, that I've been wrong before.... I honestly don't care if he/she kicks the bucket. I just wanna play the game!

[TheWildcard]

Originally Posted by ComixFan

What logic on you basing that upon?The logistics of it. Merely because one or the other could have died in the first episode?This is exactly why. Do you honestly believe the writing and programming talent of TWD Team is so limited they could not write a continuing story for both Carly and Doug?This question is pointless. Obviously they could if they really wanted to and took the time. The thing is these characters are not going to be worth the time. The fact that we're asked to choose between them in Episode 1, and their confidant like nature with Lee, only validates the possibility that both are intended to play important roles in the continuing narrative, and not merely as sacrificial characters for Long Road AheadAnd its this line of thought that makes them the perfect sacrificial character...It will get a larger emotional response from people like yourself that have become attached..

Now does that mean there's no chance they will die? Of course not. However I do believe that we will be given the choice of which central characters will be lost. Clearly it won't be Lily due to her importance beyond Lee's story; however that does leave room for Kenny, Ben, Duck, Katjaa, or either of the two new charactersThey can't constantly introduce new characters and kill them off in the same episode. The emotional investment isn't there and the impact will be lessened each time they do it.. Episode 5 of Talking Dead indicated clearly that, from this point forward, things get bigger and more complicated, hence introducing two new characters. That does not, however, prove with any degree of finality that Carly or Doug *will* die regardless of our choices.

And if they do die regardless of our choices just like we predict? Either doug and carly are going to die or they are going to be backseat characters we barely see. Its easier to kill them now while people are obviously still partially attached instead of down the line when people stop caring. It also makes more sense from a development stand point...

[ComixFan]

Originally Posted by dankirk

I don't doubt that Telltale could write two completely separate story arcs, depending on which character was saved in ep 1. I doubt that they would do that. The Doug/Carly character will be limited to bit/similar roles, just as they were in ep 2. I stand by my prediction that he/she will be killed in ep 3. I will admit, however, that I've been wrong before.... I honestly don't care if he/she kicks the bucket. I just wanna play the game!

I don't agree with that in the slightest; however I don't think reiterating the same points on my part is going to get this debate anywhere. I will, however, agree that I have enjoyed the episodes thus far and look forward to playing what-ever comes next.

[ComixFan]

Originally Posted by TheWildcard

And if they do die regardless of our choices just like we predict? Either doug and carly are going to die or they are going to be backseat characters we barely see. Its easier to kill them now while people are obviously still partially attached instead of down the line when people stop caring. It also makes more sense from a development stand point...

From a developmental standpoint it makes sense to kill off characters that were tied into, perhaps, the first major consequence choice in the game on top of both being characters that have, thus far, added to the development of the central protagonist and have even provided support at several critical junctions including saving the central protagonist's life? Yeah...that make perfect sense...

Ugh, as I've said it really seems like most folks here are grasping at whatever they can to prove Carly or Doug's demise because they seem to dislike, or not see the point of, either character. From my standpoint there is plenty of evidence to refute the idea that Carly or Doug will be killed regardless of choice. However, debating that with "Carly/Doug must die" hardliners doesn't seem overly productive.

If they die it certainly doesn't mean I will be outraged and stop playing (as long as it's done in a manner that doesn't seem like a cop-out or scapegoat) however I believe from a purely logical/developmental/and narrative standpoint that they won't. I suppose in less then a week or so we'll find out.

[PuhChewyChomp]

Logic says everyone will die at some point in time. But I could be wrong.

[Cyreen]

Originally Posted by PuhChewyChomp

Logic says everyone will die at some point in time.

It does tend to work that way.

[JCMcAdams84]

This is so much the debates that were going on when Mass Effect 3 was about to come out! LOL

The number of times I read, "There is no way Tali (or Garrus, or Miranda, ect.) can be important in ME3 cause they can be dead at the end of ME2!" And yet Tali was the difference between getting the Geth and Quarrens to work together, without her it is nearly impossible. (I know Bioware may have a bigger budget but that doesn't mean it is any easier for them from a design standpoint or that they have better people, TellTale has just as talented a group of people working for them I bet and they could do just as much justice to the game)

The point is (As I've already made and as Comixfan has as well) there is no evidence to support the death of Carley/Doug beyond peoples general lack of trust in TellTale or posters ire towards two digital characters. It is more than possible, in fact, to have a possible dead character be pivotal to the story. Also, many of you have given the easiest way to do it!! Just have it be cosmetic and dialog different but the same general story arc and bingo, Carley/Doug can now be the second most important person in Lee's life after Clem with minimal work, lol.

[Hudomonkey]

Originally Posted by JCMcAdams84

This is so much the debates that were going on when Mass Effect 3 was about to come out! LOL

The number of times I read, "There is no way Tali (or Garrus, or Miranda, ect.) can be important in ME3 cause they can be dead at the end of ME2!" And yet Tali was the difference between getting the Geth and Quarrens to work together, without her it is nearly impossible. (I know Bioware may have a bigger budget but that doesn't mean it is any easier for them from a design standpoint or that they have better people, TellTale has just as talented a group of people working for them I bet and they could do just as much justice to the game)

The point is (As I've already made and as Comixfan has as well) there is no evidence to support the death of Carley/Doug beyond peoples general lack of trust in TellTale or posters ire towards two digital characters. It is more than possible, in fact, to have a possible dead character be pivotal to the story. Also, many of you have given the easiest way to do it!! Just have it be cosmetic and dialog different but the same general story arc and bingo, Carley/Doug can now be the second most important person in Lee's life after Clem with minimal work, lol.

Yes but in Mass effect 3 most decisions changed one character in one side quest

[thestalkinghead]

Originally Posted by Hudomonkey

Yes but in Mass effect 3 most decisions changed one character in one side quest

and we all know how the lack of difference in the ending of mass effect were so well received

[JCMcAdams84]

Originally Posted by thestalkinghead

and we all know how the lack of difference in the ending of mass effect were so well received

I have the guide to ME3. There were 12 different endings. Four variations based on total readiness points and other factors of three different options. The problem was only three really had any noticeable difference and only 2 of those were seen by any number of people. And now with the free alternate ending they put out it clears some of the stuff people missed because of how quick it is (and because some people are dumb, lol, "oh an arm broke off the citadel, it must have exploded"...huh? That's like saying my toaster isn't plugged in, it must be broken, and almost as bad as Carley not knowing how to change batteries). And as far as the differences in quests there is one little quest you cannot even do if Kelly is dead, yeah it a side quest with little meaning but it's still there and there a bunch of those. If you didn't do the Bringing Down the Sky DLC then you miss out on a bunch of readiness points and a small side quest.

But that's a different topic altogether. My point in bringing that up is to point out that even a small difference is still a difference and means it does matter. From a programing perspective even just having two different possible characters in a scene means a lot, let alone have the scene be different in other ways two.

[thestalkinghead]

Originally Posted by JCMcAdams84

I have the guide to ME3. There were 12 different endings. Four variations based on total readiness points and other factors of three different options. The problem was only three really had any noticeable difference and only 2 of those were seen by any number of people. And now with the free alternate ending they put out it clears some of the stuff people missed because of how quick it is (and because some people are dumb, lol, "oh an arm broke off the citadel, it must have exploded"...huh? That's like saying my toaster isn't plugged in, it must be broken, and almost as bad as Carley not knowing how to change batteries). And as far as the differences in quests there is one little quest you cannot even do if Kelly is dead, yeah it a side quest with little meaning but it's still there and there a bunch of those. If you didn't do the Bringing Down the Sky DLC then you miss out on a bunch of readiness points and a small side quest.

But that's a different topic altogether. My point in bringing that up is to point out that even a small difference is still a difference and means it does matter. From a programing perspective even just having two different possible characters in a scene means a lot, let alone have the scene be different in other ways two.

but the thing is, i dont care how hard it is to programme different endings (endings a normal person would actually say was different) i play the game and if it is the same but someone had a different hat on its not different, i want a difference as in, i would watch an ending someone else did and i would say "wow, i didnt know you could go there, and whos that? and what happened to him? that is so different to my game" not "so its the same but you have a blue hat instead of a red one " something you could describe as a branching story is what i want

[JCMcAdams84]

Originally Posted by thestalkinghead

but the thing is, i dont care how hard it is to programme different endings (endings a normal person would actually say was different) i play the game and if it is the same but someone had a different hat on its not different, i want a difference as in, i would watch an ending someone else did and i would say "wow, i didnt know you could go there, and whos that? and what happened to him? that is so different to my game" not "so its the same but you have a blue hat instead of a red one " something you could describe as a branching story is what i want

Okay, I get that, you want more substantial differences. I'm just used to people saying, "There are no differences at all," and not acknowledging that there are differences. I can agree that if in episode 5 the only difference in cosmetic I'll be a little mad, I want something more by then too. Like Clem or Lee's survival depending on things you did or did not do in earlier episodes or the like.

[TheWaltzingBread]

Casualties have been a big part of TWD, comics, tv series and the comics alike. We thought we would have a long running rivalry between Larry and Lee but look what happened.

storm's coming guys, just dont get too attached to anyone, as they are TellTale's to take away.

That being said, I want Doug to be a part of my group as it sets my save apart from all of my friend's saves, that and we have yet to see any solid benefit picking one over the other.

[Viner16]

Originally Posted by TheWaltzingBread

Casualties have been a big part of TWD, comics, tv series and the comics alike. We thought we would have a long running rivalry between Larry and Lee but look what happened.

storm's coming guys, just dont get too attached to anyone, as they are TellTale's to take away.

That being said, I want Doug to be a part of my group as it sets my save apart from all of my friend's saves, that and we have yet to see any solid benefit picking one over the other.

Spoilers! Have no idea how to do spoiler tags so SPOILER!
SPOILER
SPOILER
SPOILER
SPOILER
SPOILER
Ok....
Guess what? Carley/Doug DOES die in Ep3
Sorta feels cheap...

[ComixFan]

Originally Posted by Viner16

Spoilers! Have no idea how to do spoiler tags so SPOILER!
SPOILER
SPOILER
SPOILER
SPOILER
SPOILER
Ok....
Guess what? Carley/Doug DOES die in Ep3
Sorta feels cheap...

It was. As I stated previously while I doubted she would I mentioned that I could accept it if said demise did not feel like a writing cop-out. Sadly, it very much did. Given the arrival into the group of Crysta and Omid it's obvious the writers did not wish to continue to have to create two ongoing stories for Carly/Doug.

I sincerely believed they were better then that and stated as much previously. I was, clearly, mistaken. Given this lackluster attempt to emulate the tragic important character losses in Robert Kirkman's series, I doubt I will be continuing to purchase the next episodes.

Again had Carly died with any sense of meaning (even a senseless death can be done with poignancy) I could have moved on, sad at the loss. However I simply can not forgive poor writing. It was the same with Mass Effect 3, i.e. a horrid ending full of plot holes and loose reasoning disguised as dramatic pathos. I received a refund for ME3 but, for TWD, I will consider the first two episodes worth the expense and just move on.

[Ja1862]

Spoilerssssss


Sorry guys but I’m right as usual.


Well, I love how it feels when you can tell something’s going to happen before it does, I knew Telltale would cop-out on this, I knew the choices meant nothing but most of all I knew that some posters would say stuff like “Nah that won’t happen” / “how can you judge the games choices on the first 2 episodes” etc

I feel sorry for the few people within this forum that actually thought Telltale would deliver on this…

[skepticalguy90]

Originally Posted by Ja1862

Spoilerssssss


Sorry guys but I’m right as usual.


Well, I love how it feels when you can tell something’s going to happen before it does, I knew Telltale would cop-out on this, I knew the choices meant nothing but most of all I knew that some posters would say stuff like “Nah that won’t happen” / “how can you judge the games choices on the first 2 episodes” etc

I feel sorry for the few people within this forum that actually thought Telltale would deliver on this…

Oh grow up. You didn't "know" anything. It's amusing to say I told you so, but let's just admit, there was no "logical basis" to your claims, you guessed and got lucky.