[SPOILERS] Ep. 3 Carley/Doug... Relax.

[Fiddle Diddle]

Alright alright, I realize that a lot of you are upset about (please go away if you haven't played ep. 3) Carley and Doug. As far as I can tell, only about 101% of you think that what happened in ep. 3 was lazy screenplay. However, I think it'd be better for everyone's sanity if we just try to interpret this differently.

Carley and Doug are cool, but let's face it, they're minor characters. Despite this, they're still not the same character, so stop calling them Carley/Doug. There is at least one big difference I can think of: Carley insists that you share your past with the group. I haven't done my Doug play-through yet but I can't imagine him doing the same because he simply doesn't know about you. I'll rescind this if somebody is willing to correct me here.

Yet still, they are minor characters. They don't have *much* time to develop (well, at least more than Chet, come on people), and they pretty much kick the bucket in identical fashion. Their fate still serves a purpose though. Admit it, your jaw dropped. It was shocking. But more than that, it represents the imminent disintegration of the group.

Most importantly, we should be thinking of what happened to Carley and Doug less in terms of themselves and more in terms of what it means to other, more substantial characters. Without spoiling anything else, Lilly and Ben in particular will be affected depending on how you handle things.

So, no, stop it, don't angrily slam your keyboard against the wall. Go outside for a walk, take a deep breath, admit that I'm right

[j.em26]

Now we know that their death couldn't be avoided, let's just be happy that they were both killed quickly and painlessly.

[AceStarr]

Actually i disagree Carley is the gun slinger and Doug is the tech guy they not minor characters in a zombie apoc. But i think thats not the only issue the issue is them dieing the same way. You cant have Carley get blasted just like Doug do you really see Lilly pulling a quick draw Mcgraw on Carley glock 9 LOL

[eblocksonian]

I find it ironic that people get mad that people die in a Zombie game.

[Fiddle Diddle]

Originally Posted by AceStarr

Actually i disagree Carley is the gun slinger and Doug is the tech guy they not minor characters in a zombie apoc. But i think thats not the only issue the issue is them dieing the same way. You cant have Carley get blasted just like Doug do you really see Lilly pulling a quick draw Mcgraw on Carley glock 9 LOL

Argument is invalid: [SPOILERS] Carley has no eyes in the back of her head, which is why Lilly politely tried to put an extra hole there (or was it the side of the face? I couldn't tell). Also, Carley seemed to have forgotten that she had a gun and was instead trying to pester Lilly with word bullets.

[AceStarr]

Well Carley a reporter i dont see her turning her back on drama lol


but if thats how they had her die o well.......

[Fiddle Diddle]

Originally Posted by AceStarr

Well Carley a reporter i dont see her turning her back on drama lol


but if thats how they had her die o well.......

Touche!

[ComixFan]

The only problem I feel people have, myself included, is that the sacrifice of Carly and Doug was done solely to serve as a scapegoat for ejecting Lily (who will play an important part elsewhere in TWD Universe later) from the story.

It wreaks of poor narrative development; I would even go so far as to say no attempts were made to find another way because of deadlines, i.e. dropping an episode once a month.

Had Carly or Doug's death had genuine meaning, even if it seemed senseless at the time, then I think the outrage would be less. Had Tell Tale wanted to see the characters to their respective death it would have been better to allow more develop time with them and have said death occur in the final episode.

[PuhChewyChomp]

But who didnt wish shed offed Ben instead? Who didnt know he was the traitor? Anyone?

[Fiddle Diddle]

Originally Posted by ComixFan

The only problem I feel people have, myself included, is that the sacrifice of Carly and Doug was done solely to serve as a scapegoat for ejecting Lily (who will play an important part elsewhere in TWD Universe later) from the story.

Exactly my point! Their deaths are not pointless, they serve to affect other characters. BTW, I think there's more to Lilly's involvement than just "being ejected from the story." I think that Lilly is coming back, and depending on how you treat her after she gets all trigger-happy will determine how she comes back.

Had Carly or Doug's death had genuine meaning, even if it seemed senseless at the time, then I think the outrage would be less. Had Tell Tale wanted to see the characters to their respective death it would have been better to allow more develop time with them and have said death occur in the final episode.

Yet it was STILL heart-wrenching to see them go. That despair you feel happens all the time when we look at the real world and see meaningless there too. Let's just let the storytellers do their job; they developed Carley and Doug as much as they wanted to. Now it's time to develop more characters and keep the revolving doors swinging.

[BigDoktor]

This is the damn zombie apocalypse. Not everyone will get a chance to get an appropriate send-off. I had a budding relationship with Carley, and the game really made me think that was going to go somewhere and then they hit me with her death like a truck. This episode is all about how you can't always take control of what's happening around you, it's about how you react to situations that are out of control. Lilly killing Carley made my Lee go over the edge and abandon Lilly, despite their respective relationship. Lee is learning the hard way what lengths he has to go through to keep his loved ones safe, even if that means taking a pragmatic approach to survival. Carley/Doug's death wasn't a result of lazy writing. It was meant to serve as a catalyst for Lee's determination and a reminder that things will not always go how you planned. Most of the original group is dead and those that remain have blood on their hands. Lee has to learn to deal with people he's had bad blood with instead of cooperating with those that agree with him. I think that fact makes it a very beautiful thing. We all fantasize about how we'd hand-pick our survival group and kick anyone out who didn't agree with us. In the real world you have to deal with people who are absolute idiots or assholes, and The Walking Dead is acknowledging that.

[Fiddle Diddle]

Originally Posted by PuhChewyChomp

But who didnt wish shed offed Ben instead? Who didnt know he was the traitor? Anyone?

Admittedly, I replayed that part of the episode like 5 times in an effort to either prevent anyone from dying or just get Ben killed instead. After I figured that it was impossible to save Carley, I figured that I better side with Poor Ben because I knew that he'd be sticking with me.

[PuhChewyChomp]

On the train when he said 'it was me' I wanted a dialogue option of 'NO SHIT' and was mad when Lee didnt throw him off the train when he was talking about doing it. I would have.

[ItsMeArmani]

Originally Posted by Fiddle Diddle

Admittedly, I replayed that part of the episode like 5 times in an effort to either prevent anyone from dying or just get Ben killed instead. After I figured that it was impossible to save Carley, I figured that I better side with Poor Ben because I knew that he'd be sticking with me.

lol you're not the only one. I was stunned when Carley died but then again life isn't always fair.

I'm still mad I didn't get dat booty though *bites lower lip*.

[Fiddle Diddle]

Originally Posted by ItsMeArmani

lol you're not the only one. I was stunned when Carley died but then again life isn't always fair.

I'm still mad I didn't get dat booty though *bites lower lip*.

I know I'm not the only one who wanted to see what she meant when she told me not to call her small

[NeonBlade]

I feel the overall episode was not as strong. Narrative or script wise as Episode 1 or Episode 2, but I was grateful for the length of the episode.

I am one of the few people that saved Doug, and Doug players really got screwed here. I built a good friendship with him, and he was useful. Every instance in the plot made more sense with Doug in contrast to Carley, in regards the scenarios and transitions. Whereas everything felt rushed and slap-dash with Carley.

I knew Ben was the one giving the bandits the medicine, I knew it in my heart but I couldn't prove it. I should have sided with Lily, but I realise there is no saving Doug. Completely lazy screenplay in this episode.

Still, the chaotic nature, suddenness led me to choose that me and Clem are going our own way, the group is irreversibly damaged. I still cannot trust Kenny to be rational, and Ben I cannot trust him period after his bold face lies that cost a group member their life, trying to show mercy for him.

Also how did Clems walkie get fixed?! There was only one person who could have fixed it and it was Doug! Another lazy decision from Tell-Tale. If players chose Carley they should never even hear the man on the Walkie-Talkie, they should be in the dark. As usual rewarding players, instead of making choices matter; Grow a back-bone please.

[Ja1862]

As I stated in Logic says the Doug/Carly Will Die in Ep 3 to all the people who thought Telltale actually used the choice method properly... HA

I was rite, there is no real choice; they are not skilled enough to turn out a game monthly that includes great choice moments that actually mean something within the game.

Instead you get fake choices.

Moments that seem like choices - masked to the slightly more dim when in actuality they have no effect apart from a few different dialogue choices.

Like save Shaun
Save Larry
Kill the brothers
Save doug or carly etc

But they continue to talk about how choice changes the game for each player; I'm surprised if anyone will still listen to this, glad I didn't invest in ep2 or 3.
Basically its like a film but you can change ever so slightly a few things the characters say... "Immense"

[ZacTB]

Originally Posted by NeonBlade

Also how did Clems walkie get fixed?! There was only one person who could have fixed it and it was Doug! Another lazy decision from Tell-Tale. If players chose Carley they should never even hear the man on the Walkie-Talkie, they should be in the dark. As usual rewarding players, instead of making choices matter; Grow a back-bone please.

I can't really remember much about it in Episode 1 but my guess is that it was never broken and the man speaking to Clementine told her to tell Lee it was broken. Don't you think Doug would have told Lee he fixed it?

[Fiddle Diddle]

Originally Posted by Ja1862

As I stated in Logic says the Doug/Carly Will Die in Ep 3 to all the people who thought Telltale actually used the choice method properly... HA

I was rite, there is no real choice; they are not skilled enough to turn out a game monthly that includes great choice moments that actually mean something within the game.

Instead you get fake choices.

Moments that seem like choices - masked to the slightly more dim when in actuality they have no effect apart from a few different dialogue choices.

Like save Shaun
Save Larry
Kill the brothers
Save doug or carly etc

But they continue to talk about how choice changes the game for each player; I'm surprised if anyone will still listen to this, glad I didn't invest in ep2 or 3.
Basically its like a film but you can change ever so slightly a few things the characters say... "Immense"

Ummm... correct me if I'm misunderstanding your last words there, but did you just admit that you didn't even play episode 2 or 3? Because if that's the case, I think you're being a little dishonest by being so opinionated, no?

The choices DO make a difference, you just have to see how they affect the people you're traveling with rather than whine about how they don't change the actual situation much. And take it from someone who has a save for Carley and another for Doug, each save becomes radically different in Ep. 3 despite the fact that they each die.

[Christoaster]

Originally Posted by Fiddle Diddle

Ummm... correct me if I'm misunderstanding your last words there, but did you just admit that you didn't even play episode 2 or 3? Because if that's the case, I think you're being a little dishonest by being so opinionated, no?

The choices DO make a difference, you just have to see how they affect the people you're traveling with rather than whine about how they don't change the actual situation much. And take it from someone who has a save for Carley and another for Doug, each save becomes radically different in Ep. 3 despite the fact that they each die.

I agree, Ja1862 didn't even play the games and is being way too opinionated. He shouldn't even have a say in this if he didn't experience it. Anyways, I think the choices matter alot, I enjoy watching the different schenes that play out from different decisions you made in the past.