Telltale Games

YamiRaziel · 08/30/2012, 07:19 pm

This topic contains Comic book spoilers. Read at your own risk

I guess I may be the only one here who would still support Lily if she shows up at some future point in time.
Why?
I appreciate her leadership skills, her selflessness (having to make all those little decisions is really difficult) and her reasoning. She tried to keep this group together, she did her very best but some other people...like Kenny always tried to have it their way, always consider what's only best for his family.
I think we all agree it was difficult giving the rations the first time in episode two. We got a glimpse of what she has to do every day. People hated us for those choices, so they hate her even more for having to do it every day. But there's no one else who would do it.

She was still pretty reasonable until Kenny murdered her father. People can complain that he saved them and all that crap... but you couldn't have known for sure and that's the truth. He overreacted and again being the selfish asshole he is, he did the easiest choice for him. Eliminate the enemy and undermine the leader's authority.

In episode 3 we see things haven't changed. Lily is still the only one to really tries to protect the group. Lee, of course, helps always and as much as he can, but others like Kenny... they didn't even feel bad for what they did in episode 2. Kenny ruined this group and yet he still wanted things to go his way. He kept pushing Lily without really doing anything for the group. He was determined to abandon all.
Carley... she didn't really do anything. She could've stepped in and helped Lily when she saw she was about to snap... but she didn't. The only thing she actually did was tease Lee, look cute, and avoid participation in almost every important discussion. The downfall in episode 3 is partially her fault as well.
When the bandits attacked the group it was again Lily that came to the rescue to a group that hated her. Kenny wouldn't swallow my disrespect for him and actually tried to get me killed too many times in this episode.
Ben... and Kenny really started a chain reaction. With both their stupidity combined they managed to indirectly kill Carley, Katjaa and Duck as well destroy the group from within.
Both cowards and both DUBM as a bag of hammers.
I would so love to see them gone in episode 4 & 5. I don't need stupid people in my group, people who know nothing about responsibility or humanity.

It was sad to see Lily snap but I guess there is a line as to where a person can take it. In the end of the day I'm sure she'll regret her choices and will eventually learn from them. She kills Lorry cause she believes they are threatening her group. When she sees how wrong she was she offs the Governor. That's a pretty redeeming deed in my book, one that clearly shows she actually develops.

I would certainly love to see more of her in future episodes/seasons.

So, am I the only one?

Even if I am, I will still be defending this position to the end :P

The13thRonin · 08/30/2012, 07:21 pm

SPOILERS Spoiler the thread!

I think she overreacted hardcore but so did Kenny in the freezer... At least she is consistent. Kenny on the other hand.

Freezer Kenny: HULK HEAD-SMASH LARRY.

That thing happens before the train Kenny: PFFT... HE WON'T TURN... KEEP HIM NEAR ALL THE OTHER UNINFECTED PEOPLE...

What a jackass... I mean I understand why he did it but he should have thought about that before smashing Larrys head in.

SPOILERS

MakersWax · 08/30/2012, 07:23 pm

She left the group, why spend any time appreciating her; good riddance.

YamiRaziel · 08/30/2012, 07:25 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by MakersWax

She left the group, why spend any time appreciating her; good riddance.

Carley died. Why spend time crying about her? She was missing most of episode 2 anyway...

SonnyN18 · 08/30/2012, 07:27 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by YamiRaziel

Carley died. Why spend time crying about her? She was missing most of episode 2 anyway...

Because no matter what happens she was the one who we could count on, and trust. As far as I'm concerned, I'm on Team Lee

YamiRaziel · 08/30/2012, 07:28 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by MakersWax

She left the group, why spend any time appreciating her; good riddance.

Carley died. Why spend time crying about her? She was missing most of episode 2 anyway...

The13thRonin I agree. When you do something as drastic as that you, you can't really expect everything to return back to normal. I think all this would've been avoided if he just left the group right after episode 2. He started all this.

YamiRaziel · 08/30/2012, 07:29 pm

SonnyN18, trust her, maybe! Rely on her, not really!
She can shoot walkers but nothing else. Big groups need a leader or that's what happens.

MakersWax · 08/30/2012, 07:29 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by YamiRaziel

Carley died. Why spend time crying about her? She was missing most of episode 2 anyway...

Exactly. Not worried about her or Doug (whom I saved). Lilly in particular didn't bring anything to my game, in which she moped for three episodes and then bailed.

SonnyN18 · 08/30/2012, 07:34 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by YamiRaziel

SonnyN18, trust her, maybe! Rely on her, not really?
She can shoot walkers but nothing else. Big groups need a leader or that's what happens.

You know what happened? She cracked and killed someone, some leader. I appreciate for what's she done but she took it to far this time. It was unnecessary. She's not capable of being the leader anymore, she's run her course. I would not let her join my group if the decision allowed me. And plus Carly was always honest with me.

YamiRaziel · 08/30/2012, 07:41 pm

I think you misinterpret the idea of an appreciation thread.
SonnyN18, of course she can't be the leader atm. At least not until post-Woodbury events. She is not the only one to blame for that...
I believe that after she kills the Governor she will get a hold of her life. She's a figther, she will endure.

MakersWax, not to be rude, mate, but if she didn't bring anything to your game then this isn't your thread. This is a thread for people who were actually affected by her story and regard her as something worth discussing.

In my opinion her story and the entire downfall are much more interesting and thought provoking than some wasted silly Carley-Lee romance all seem to be crying about.

Rock114 · 08/30/2012, 07:42 pm

You say that we can't knwo that Kenny saved us, and you're right. But at the same time, we don't know that Larry was alive. I was afraid he'd turn, so I helped Kenny. Do I feel bad? Yes, I do feel bad about Larry. That I helped when we didn't know if he was dead or not. Lilly still had no reason to shoot Carley, where Kenny may have had a reason to kill Larry.

If we blame the bandit raid on anyone, it can't be Kenny. Probably Ben for going behind our backs and not telling us about the deal, but Kenny fixed up the RV which allowed the group to escape. If he hadn't it's likely that no one would have made it out of the motor inn alive. And Lilly's reasoning went only as far as Larry. It was really him in charge if you think about it, because she never went against him. If she stepped out of line once with him, she was always quick to retract it. Kenny's no saint, but neither is Lilly.

And Carley/Doug's death is on Lilly, she pulled the trigger. No matter her mental state, she murdered them as much, if not more than Kenny murdered Larry. She's a danger to the group now. I personally would not let her back in, and I left her on that road without a second thought. She's no better than Kenny or Lee or anyone else. She even drives off with the RV and leaves you all stranded at the train if you take her with you after that. She straight up lies to you and says that she'll take you and Clem with her if you agree to leave in the RV, and then immediately drives away after you step out. Can't trust her any more than Kenny, or Ben, or Chuck, or anyone who isn't named Lee Everett.

SonnyN18 · 08/30/2012, 07:45 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by SonnyN18

You know what happened? She cracked and killed someone, some leader. I appreciate for what's she done but she took it to far this time. It was unnecessary. She's not capable of being the leader anymore, she's run her course. I would not let her join my group if the decision allowed me. And plus Carly was always honest with me.

Alright, if u really want to do this silly appreciation thing then I'll leave you to it

YamiRaziel · 08/30/2012, 07:55 pm

You make some good points but I do not agree with the Larry thing at all. When Duck was bitten no one hurried to drop a salt-lick on his head and he was a 100% going to turn. All was like, let's give him a chance, he may fight it, we might find a cure even though every single one of them knew he was doomed. They still gave him chance.
That's something they didn't offer Larry. We've discussed this a lot in the
**** Kenny thread, but there were better ways of handling that Larry situation.
And yeah, it's Kenny's fault because hadn't he killed Larry in that brutal way, Lilly would never snap and off Carley/Doug.
Had he left after episode 2, I think she wouldn't snap. However, having not only to look at him every day, but also being pushed and blamed for every bad thing that happens by that same guy that murdered your father in cold blood, I'm not sure who wouldn't snap.
I agree that she became unreliable at the middle of part 3 but I still think she will be able to redeem herself in the future. We know she does.
I my playthrough I didn't accept her offer so things went differently for me, but if what you say is true I find it a bit inconsistent. I've been on her side for all the episodes so far, and have I decided to join her I think it would be only natural if she accepted us with Clem. I mean I was the only one she could trust in my game.

SonnyN18, I was mostly referring to MakersWax, not to you. I do not mind having a decent conversation and exchanging ideas.

SonnyN18 · 08/30/2012, 07:59 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by YamiRaziel

You make some good points but I do not agree with the Larry thing at all. When Duck was bitten no one hurried to drop a salt-lick on his head and he was a 100% going to turn. All was like, let's give him a chance, he may fight it, we might find a cure even though every single one of them knew he was doomed. They still gave him chance.
That's something they didn't offer Larry. We've discussed this a lot in the
**** Kenny thread, but there were better ways of handling that Larry situation.
And yeah, it's Kenny's fault because hadn't he killed Larry in that brutal way, Lilly would never snap and off Carley/Doug.
Had he left after episode 2, I think she wouldn't snap. However, having not only to look at him every day, but also being pushed and blamed for every bad thing that happens by that same guy that murdered your father in cold blood, I'm not sure who wouldn't snap.
I agree that she became unreliable at the middle of part 3 but I still think she will be able to redeem herself in the future. We know she does.
I my playthrough I didn't accept her offer so things went differently for me, but if what you say is true I find it a bit inconsistent. I've been on her side for all the episodes so far, and have I decided to join her I think it would be only natural if she accepted us with Clem. I mean I was the only one she could trust in my game.

SonnyN18, I was mostly referring to MakersWax, not to you. I do not mind having a decent conversation and exchanging ideas.

Yeah, thats obvious but I was just looking at other threads

Dead_Man_Walking · 08/30/2012, 08:15 pm

I appreciate this appreciation thread about Lily.

Too be honest, I'd be on team Me-Myself-And-I, and not as Lee, either. Lee's a good guy, and all, but he'd probably end up getting me killed with his indecisiveness (Yeah, I know, the game is supposed to be that way). Those hesitations and wants to consider others' opinions would be our downfall. But, I digress.

Lily is actually a persona that I can relate with, save for the "killing on a hunch" deal. As a matter of fact, Lily could be my sister, plain out. Why? Larry!

I can actually appreciate him, too. It's just their (Larry and Lily) mindsets are pretty set in their ways. The only reason I say this is because one has to grow up with a father like Larry to understand Lily, which I have throughout my life. Does he mean well? Sure, but his thought process is iron clad and focused on one thing: His kid. Larry is just aggressive in his take on things and that affects Lily's personality.

Lily actually seems a lot more trustworthy, in my opinion, than Kenny. She has expressed concerns for the entire group, where Kenny hasn't. I think she's just been taken out of context, in some sense, and made to look like a royal bitch. Lily seems to have a genuine concern for the children of the group (Seen when she smiles down at Clem kicking the soccer ball in Ep. 2) and is always voicing that concern for the group when the situation arises. Kenny is always just yelling about his family, and that's understandable, but he doesn't really express too much of a concern for others, in my opinion.

Now, a lot of us hated Lily for her actions outside of the RV, on the highway. Yeah, I'll admit, she went a little overboard, but look at the situation, too. Your supplies are running out, you probably haven't had a bath in months, you were betrayed by someone you were looking out for, your dad was killed by one of your group members (I don't know about you, but if that were me, Kenny would be walking around with a new one torn into his ass), and so on. Think about that situation. Everyone can state that they would have handled that situation differently, but the problem is, most people won't have that experience in their life, to that extent.

The lack of evidence is what made Lily look like the bad guy (or girl) in that scenario, and that's acceptable. But with her mindset, not being much different than my own, and given the circumstances, I could see that outcome. As for Lily blurting out the details of your past, that's just human nature. It's called mudslinging, and it was used in the defense of everyone turning on her for her actions. Were her actions just? Maybe not, but that was her mind frame and I could see a situation like that happening. The only difference is, we're an audience, and see more of their daily lives than we would if we took a first person point of view.

When they found the bag of medication, and Ben confessed, in a sense, lily was right. The only problem was, she didn't see the big picture. I think that's all she's guilty of. Oh, and for those that got ditched, yeah, I was mad, too. However, maybe that was her way of saying she screwed up, and the group would be better off without her. It was a messed up plan of action, but lots of things are messed up in the spur of the moment. When you (Lee) went for the pencil, she could have easily snuck up on you and broke your neck. :/

All in all, Lily's judgement is a little off, and considering what she's been through, I don't completely blame her. Am I defending her, until the end? Nah, I'm still on team "me" (Not Lee, though), but I wouldn't mind having her back. I'll even say she was the lesser of two evils. In a perfect world, I'd be out on my own, only utilizing people for trade and supplies, if need be, but TWD stuck us in a group.

So, whatever. :P I'll even go as far as to say to the Kenny Naysayers his actions weren't so different than Lily's, only in a different manner of speaking.

Heck, I'd even go as far as to say there needs to be a Larry appreciation thread. Just think if you finally got on his good side, you'd have a walking pile-driver backing you up. :P Or, a 6'4" 300 pound, pissed off, dead guy eating your face. That's the beauty of the game, it allows people to perceive things differently.

tl;dr?: Lily and Larry rocked ass!

Oh, and these are merely my opinions. You know, opinions, buttholes, roses, whatever.

Hey TTG, mind allowing me to make a team "me" by letting us customize a protagonist sometime down the road? <3

YamiRaziel · 08/31/2012, 05:53 am

Beautifully written, man, couldn't have said it better!
I totally agree! I'm was a little mad with her but I can forgive her if she comes back and shows me she's more stable.

Kenny, I don't hate him anymore, he was punished enough. He destroyed the group and fate destroyed his family. The problem with him is that I think he is more unstable than Lily ever was. He's always causing the problems, screaming around and putting people on edge. I can't stand him really. I want him gone for good. He's a ticking bomb. How knows how long will it takes until he decides life no longer has a meaning and doom us all.

LokiHavok · 08/31/2012, 05:58 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by The13thRonin

SPOILERS Spoiler the thread!

I think she overreacted hardcore but so did Kenny in the freezer... At least she is consistent. Kenny on the other hand.

Freezer Kenny: HULK HEAD-SMASH LARRY.

That thing happens before the train Kenny: PFFT... HE WON'T TURN... KEEP HIM NEAR ALL THE OTHER UNINFECTED PEOPLE...

What a jackass... I mean I understand why he did it but he should have thought about that before smashing Larrys head in.

SPOILERS

As a loyal Team Kennyist. That shit was different, yo.
Lilly's dad was dead. The rules were established that everyone is infected and will reanimate regardless. Plus he was an asshole. It seems to be a genetic trait.

With Duck's case, it was a one-off bite. The first time a major character has been bitten. While it's easy to write-off a random homeless looking girl surrounded by walkers. It's harder to kill a sick kid outright.

Dead_Man_Walking · 08/31/2012, 06:53 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by LokiHavok

As a loyal Team Kennyist. That shit was different, yo.
Lilly's dad was dead. The rules were established that everyone is infected and will reanimate regardless. Plus he was an asshole. It seems to be a genetic trait.

With Duck's case, it was a one-off bite. The first time a major character has been bitten. While it's easy to write-off a random homeless looking girl surrounded by walkers. It's harder to kill a sick kid outright.

Actually, we don't know that he was dead. When you assist Lily, and if you're quick enough (Supposedly), before Kenny smashes his head in, it seems like his lips move, like he was trying to say something (I swear his eyes fluttered a bit, too). It was hinted by a TTG member, in another thread, that this might have been the case (He said it in a way to imply they put a lot of hidden bits and pieces in the game).

That's the beauty of it, though. We'll never know. Kenny only "thought" he was dead, he never allowed for time to check on vitals after Lee worked on him. Even if he did turn, I'm sure it would have taken a second for him to get up. During that time, he could have been held down and crushed with the salt lick. Or crushed when he was about to get up, or something.

For all we know, Kenny could be a cold blooded murderer as well. In that case, Lee, Lily AND Kenny all have something in common.

I smell drinking buddies! :P

YamiRaziel · 08/31/2012, 06:55 am

Hahaha, so true!

In my playthrough, he didn't tell Katjaa what he did to Larry. I guess he knows he's a cold blooded murderer and he's afraid of her reaction. In my game she regards him as a bit unstable anyway...

LokiHavok · 08/31/2012, 06:56 am

Yeah that's true. But that small sign of life only means that Lilly's CPR worked. Or that he was about to reanimate. We'll never know.

Lilly's shooting of Carley was flat-out overt murder. Kenny's choice was circumstantial. He made the most logical choice imo. I sided with him because of that.

But then again I've overtly murdered characters in this game as Lee. The SaveLots woman for example. The Brothers Johns. So who am I to judge lol.

08/30/2012, 07:19 pm	#1
YamiRaziel Lilly Fan #1 Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Woodbury Posts: 774	Team Lily to the end (appreciation thread) *This topic contains Comic book spoilers. Read at your own risk* I guess I may be the only one here who would still support Lily if she shows up at some future point in time. Why? I appreciate her leadership skills, her selflessness (having to make all those little decisions is really difficult) and her reasoning. She tried to keep this group together, she did her very best but some other people...like Kenny always tried to have it their way, always consider what's only best for his family. I think we all agree it was difficult giving the rations the first time in episode two. We got a glimpse of what she has to do every day. People hated us for those choices, so they hate her even more for having to do it every day. But there's no one else who would do it. She was still pretty reasonable until Kenny murdered her father. People can complain that he saved them and all that crap... but you couldn't have known for sure and that's the truth. He overreacted and again being the selfish asshole he is, he did the easiest choice for him. Eliminate the enemy and undermine the leader's authority. In episode 3 we see things haven't changed. Lily is still the only one to really tries to protect the group. Lee, of course, helps always and as much as he can, but others like Kenny... they didn't even feel bad for what they did in episode 2. Kenny ruined this group and yet he still wanted things to go his way. He kept pushing Lily without really doing anything for the group. He was determined to abandon all. Carley... she didn't really do anything. She could've stepped in and helped Lily when she saw she was about to snap... but she didn't. The only thing she actually did was tease Lee, look cute, and avoid participation in almost every important discussion. The downfall in episode 3 is partially her fault as well. When the bandits attacked the group it was again Lily that came to the rescue to a group that hated her. Kenny wouldn't swallow my disrespect for him and actually tried to get me killed too many times in this episode. Ben... and Kenny really started a chain reaction. With both their stupidity combined they managed to indirectly kill Carley, Katjaa and Duck as well destroy the group from within. Both cowards and both DUBM as a bag of hammers. I would so love to see them gone in episode 4 & 5. I don't need stupid people in my group, people who know nothing about responsibility or humanity. It was sad to see Lily snap but I guess there is a line as to where a person can take it. In the end of the day I'm sure she'll regret her choices and will eventually learn from them. She kills Lorry cause she believes they are threatening her group. When she sees how wrong she was she offs the Governor. That's a pretty redeeming deed in my book, one that clearly shows she actually develops. I would certainly love to see more of her in future episodes/seasons. So, am I the only one? Even if I am, I will still be defending this position to the end :P Last edited by YamiRaziel; 09/01/2012 at 04:01 pm.

08/30/2012, 08:15 pm	#15
Dead_Man_Walking Zombie MayBelle Supporter Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 189	I appreciate this appreciation thread about Lily. Too be honest, I'd be on team Me-Myself-And-I, and not as Lee, either. Lee's a good guy, and all, but he'd probably end up getting me killed with his indecisiveness (Yeah, I know, the game is supposed to be that way). Those hesitations and wants to consider others' opinions would be our downfall. But, I digress. Lily is actually a persona that I can relate with, save for the "killing on a hunch" deal. As a matter of fact, Lily could be my sister, plain out. Why? Larry! I can actually appreciate him, too. It's just their (Larry and Lily) mindsets are pretty set in their ways. The only reason I say this is because one has to grow up with a father like Larry to understand Lily, which I have throughout my life. Does he mean well? Sure, but his thought process is iron clad and focused on one thing: His kid. Larry is just aggressive in his take on things and that affects Lily's personality. Lily actually seems a lot more trustworthy, in my opinion, than Kenny. She has expressed concerns for the entire group, where Kenny hasn't. I think she's just been taken out of context, in some sense, and made to look like a royal bitch. Lily seems to have a genuine concern for the children of the group (Seen when she smiles down at Clem kicking the soccer ball in Ep. 2) and is always voicing that concern for the group when the situation arises. Kenny is always just yelling about his family, and that's understandable, but he doesn't really express too much of a concern for others, in my opinion. Now, a lot of us hated Lily for her actions outside of the RV, on the highway. Yeah, I'll admit, she went a little overboard, but look at the situation, too. Your supplies are running out, you probably haven't had a bath in months, you were betrayed by someone you were looking out for, your dad was killed by one of your group members (I don't know about you, but if that were me, Kenny would be walking around with a new one torn into his ass), and so on. Think about that situation. Everyone can state that they would have handled that situation differently, but the problem is, most people won't have that experience in their life, to that extent. The lack of evidence is what made Lily look like the bad guy (or girl) in that scenario, and that's acceptable. But with her mindset, not being much different than my own, and given the circumstances, I could see that outcome. As for Lily blurting out the details of your past, that's just human nature. It's called mudslinging, and it was used in the defense of everyone turning on her for her actions. Were her actions just? Maybe not, but that was her mind frame and I could see a situation like that happening. The only difference is, we're an audience, and see more of their daily lives than we would if we took a first person point of view. When they found the bag of medication, and Ben confessed, in a sense, lily was right. The only problem was, she didn't see the big picture. I think that's all she's guilty of. Oh, and for those that got ditched, yeah, I was mad, too. However, maybe that was her way of saying she screwed up, and the group would be better off without her. It was a messed up plan of action, but lots of things are messed up in the spur of the moment. When you (Lee) went for the pencil, she could have easily snuck up on you and broke your neck. :/ All in all, Lily's judgement is a little off, and considering what she's been through, I don't completely blame her. Am I defending her, until the end? Nah, I'm still on team "me" (Not Lee, though), but I wouldn't mind having her back. I'll even say she was the lesser of two evils. In a perfect world, I'd be out on my own, only utilizing people for trade and supplies, if need be, but TWD stuck us in a group. So, whatever. :P I'll even go as far as to say to the Kenny Naysayers his actions weren't so different than Lily's, only in a different manner of speaking. Heck, I'd even go as far as to say there needs to be a Larry appreciation thread. Just think if you finally got on his good side, you'd have a walking pile-driver backing you up. :P Or, a 6'4" 300 pound, pissed off, dead guy eating your face. That's the beauty of the game, it allows people to perceive things differently. tl;dr?: Lily and Larry rocked ass! Oh, and these are merely my opinions. You know, opinions, buttholes, roses, whatever. Hey TTG, mind allowing me to make a team "me" by letting us customize a protagonist sometime down the road? <3 Last edited by Dead_Man_Walking; 08/30/2012 at 08:19 pm.

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08/30/2012, 07:21 pm	#2
The13thRonin Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 46	SPOILERS Spoiler the thread! I think she overreacted hardcore but so did Kenny in the freezer... At least she is consistent. Kenny on the other hand. Freezer Kenny: HULK HEAD-SMASH LARRY. That thing happens before the train Kenny: PFFT... HE WON'T TURN... KEEP HIM NEAR ALL THE OTHER UNINFECTED PEOPLE... What a jackass... I mean I understand why he did it but he should have thought about that before smashing Larrys head in. SPOILERS

08/30/2012, 07:23 pm	#3
MakersWax Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 91	She left the group, why spend any time appreciating her; good riddance.

08/30/2012, 07:29 pm	#7
YamiRaziel Lilly Fan #1 Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Woodbury Posts: 774	SonnyN18, trust her, maybe! Rely on her, not really! She can shoot walkers but nothing else. Big groups need a leader or that's what happens.

08/30/2012, 07:41 pm	#10
YamiRaziel Lilly Fan #1 Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Woodbury Posts: 774	I think you misinterpret the idea of an appreciation thread. SonnyN18, of course she can't be the leader atm. At least not until post-Woodbury events. She is not the only one to blame for that... I believe that after she kills the Governor she will get a hold of her life. She's a figther, she will endure. MakersWax, not to be rude, mate, but if she didn't bring anything to your game then this isn't your thread. This is a thread for people who were actually affected by her story and regard her as something worth discussing. In my opinion her story and the entire downfall are much more interesting and thought provoking than some wasted silly Carley-Lee romance all seem to be crying about.

08/30/2012, 07:42 pm	#11
Rock114 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: U.S. of A. Posts: 1,711	You say that we can't knwo that Kenny saved us, and you're right. But at the same time, we don't know that Larry was alive. I was afraid he'd turn, so I helped Kenny. Do I feel bad? Yes, I do feel bad about Larry. That I helped when we didn't know if he was dead or not. Lilly still had no reason to shoot Carley, where Kenny may have had a reason to kill Larry. If we blame the bandit raid on anyone, it can't be Kenny. Probably Ben for going behind our backs and not telling us about the deal, but Kenny fixed up the RV which allowed the group to escape. If he hadn't it's likely that no one would have made it out of the motor inn alive. And Lilly's reasoning went only as far as Larry. It was really him in charge if you think about it, because she never went against him. If she stepped out of line once with him, she was always quick to retract it. Kenny's no saint, but neither is Lilly. And Carley/Doug's death is on Lilly, she pulled the trigger. No matter her mental state, she murdered them as much, if not more than Kenny murdered Larry. She's a danger to the group now. I personally would not let her back in, and I left her on that road without a second thought. She's no better than Kenny or Lee or anyone else. She even drives off with the RV and leaves you all stranded at the train if you take her with you after that. She straight up lies to you and says that she'll take you and Clem with her if you agree to leave in the RV, and then immediately drives away after you step out. Can't trust her any more than Kenny, or Ben, or Chuck, or anyone who isn't named Lee Everett.

08/30/2012, 07:55 pm	#13
YamiRaziel Lilly Fan #1 Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Woodbury Posts: 774	You make some good points but I do not agree with the Larry thing at all. When Duck was bitten no one hurried to drop a salt-lick on his head and he was a 100% going to turn. All was like, let's give him a chance, he may fight it, we might find a cure even though every single one of them knew he was doomed. They still gave him chance. That's something they didn't offer Larry. We've discussed this a lot in the ** Kenny thread, but there were better ways of handling that Larry situation. And yeah, it's Kenny's fault because hadn't he killed Larry in that brutal way, Lilly would never snap and off Carley/Doug. Had he left after episode 2, I think she wouldn't snap. However, having not only to look at him every day, but also being pushed and blamed for every bad thing that happens by that same guy that murdered your father in cold blood, I'm not sure who wouldn't snap. I agree that she became unreliable at the middle of part 3 but I still think she will be able to redeem herself in the future. We know she does. I my playthrough I didn't accept her offer so things went differently for me, but if what you say is true I find it a bit inconsistent. I've been on her side for all the episodes so far, and have I decided to join her I think it would be only natural if she accepted us with Clem. I mean I was the only one she could trust in my game. SonnyN18, I was mostly referring to MakersWax**, not to you. I do not mind having a decent conversation and exchanging ideas.

08/31/2012, 05:53 am	#16
YamiRaziel Lilly Fan #1 Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Woodbury Posts: 774	Beautifully written, man, couldn't have said it better! I totally agree! I'm was a little mad with her but I can forgive her if she comes back and shows me she's more stable. Kenny, I don't hate him anymore, he was punished enough. He destroyed the group and fate destroyed his family. The problem with him is that I think he is more unstable than Lily ever was. He's always causing the problems, screaming around and putting people on edge. I can't stand him really. I want him gone for good. He's a ticking bomb. How knows how long will it takes until he decides life no longer has a meaning and doom us all.

08/31/2012, 06:55 am	#19
YamiRaziel Lilly Fan #1 Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Woodbury Posts: 774	Hahaha, so true! In my playthrough, he didn't tell Katjaa what he did to Larry. I guess he knows he's a cold blooded murderer and he's afraid of her reaction. In my game she regards him as a bit unstable anyway...

08/31/2012, 06:56 am	#20
LokiHavok Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 231	Yeah that's true. But that small sign of life only means that Lilly's CPR worked. Or that he was about to reanimate. We'll never know. Lilly's shooting of Carley was flat-out overt murder. Kenny's choice was circumstantial. He made the most logical choice imo. I sided with him because of that. But then again I've overtly murdered characters in this game as Lee. The SaveLots woman for example. The Brothers Johns. So who am I to judge lol.