Man " adapt to the choices you make"? What choices?!?

[DkTimmy]

I have to agree with him. I chose to go with Lilly and leave and i expected a change for the story. But was lead to the same path if i said no. Seemed like my choice didnt matter very much...

[ItsMeArmani]

Originally Posted by malcom155

@Itsmearmani: don't be afraid 80% of the players already left the boat... Look at the scucces on steam... they listen and go play other game.

They'll be back...but then if something else happens in the game they don't like they will complain again....then they'll come right back for the next episode.

Look at call of duty, TONS of people complain about that game and say they'll never buy another installment yet MW3 sold so much practically every gamer has it.

[AdamLazaruso]

Here's the thang. This whole game is supposed to be about making hard, emotionally driven choices, but they stop being hard choices as soon as you know that the game's going to pan out whatever way it wants to regardless of what you do.

In Episode 1 it was a hard choice between saving Shaun or saving Duck. But even though I chose to save Shaun he died and Duck survived anyway. Then I took Hershel's side over Kenny's, and ended up leaving the farm with Kenny anyway.

Then at the end of Episode 1 it's supposed to be a difficult choice between Doug and Carly (it wasn't that difficult for me because I hated Doug and wanted him DEAD), but then it turned out that whatever character you chose was absent through most of Episode 2 and is then bumped off fairly early into Episode 3...

The toughest choice of the series so far for me has been whether or not to save Larry. I did, and then he died anyway. I thought at the very least it might influence stuff with Lily in the future but now she's gone too.


By the time I got to Episode 3 none of these decisions were hard to make because I knew that regardless of what I did absolutely nothing would change beyond a character perhaps making a snide comment to me in a future conversation.


One of the main hooks and story telling devices in this game is supposed to be the harrowing emotional choices you have to make but they stopped being at all difficult or interesting the moment I realised that they didn't matter. When what is supposed to be the main feature of a game becomes irrelevant the game becomes a failure.

Fortunately the plot is good enough to stand on its own legs and keep me interested, but they shouldn't really have advertised this game so heavily as "The choices that you make affect the gameplay!" when they really really don't.

Originally Posted by ItsMeArmani

If you don't like the choices, then GO PLAY ANOTHER GAME. What will complaining do about it? Its easy for you to sit back and complain but Telltale is doing a wonderful job with the game under the time constraints they have.

Can we just chill with the complaining and appreciate the game for what it is? *sigh* I hope this forum doesn't transform into a whine fest...

It's a discussion forum. The whole point is for us to talk about what we like about the game, what we don't, etc... If every forum for every game was just full of people "OH WOW THIS IS THE BEST THING EVER AND IT HAS ABSOLUTELY NO FLAWS AT ALL" then the internet would be a very boring place.

Saying "GO PLAY ANOTHER GAME" might be fair if this was a free game, but it isn't. We've all paid money for this game and so we have every right to air our grievances with it. It's helpful for Telltale too because it allows them to see what people don't like about their games so that they can make better games in the future. Why do you think that's a bad thing?

END LONG POST

[LokiHavok]

I don't think you people complaining realize what kind of game you are playing

[bazenji]

It's like a TV show. The A plot, or main story, is always the same. This is the monster of the week in Fringe, or chasing after Sophia in TWD, or House's medical mystery.

The B, C, D, and E plots are House getting addicted to painkillers, hallucinating, Benson dating Harry Connick, Jr., Maggie and Glenn buying a pregnancy test for Lori, Daryl wandering into the woods and having a hallucination about his brother, Astrid and Walter eating butter pecan ice cream while experimenting with LSD.

You can throw as many B, C, D, and E plots at the episode as you can handle with as many possible permutations as you can imagine. But the episode is still the basis for an entire arc that cannot change. Within that structure, you can have an enormous series of conflicts, relationships, romances, quiet moments of reflection, and humorous comedic asides that give the show its distinct flavor. But that A plot has to remain consistent or else you don't have a narrative.

[Thadeum]

Originally Posted by malcom155

@Itsmearmani: don't be afraid 80% of the players already left the boat... Look at the scucces on steam... they listen and go play other game.

Stop pulling the Steam stats out of your ass.

The game lost players because, well, players waited more than one month for the next coming episode. Of course they left to another game, and they will be back as soon as they realize another episode is out!

[AdamLazaruso]

Originally Posted by bazenji

It's like a TV show. The A plot, or main story, is always the same. This is the monster of the week in Fringe, or chasing after Sophia in TWD, or House's medical mystery.

The B, C, D, and E plots are House getting addicted to painkillers, hallucinating, Benson dating Harry Connick, Jr., Maggie and Glenn buying a pregnancy test for Lori, Daryl wandering into the woods and having a hallucination about his brother, Astrid and Walter eating butter pecan ice cream while experimenting with LSD.

You can throw as many B, C, D, and E plots at the episode as you can handle with as many possible permutations as you can imagine. But the episode is still the basis for an entire arc that cannot change. Within that structure, you can have an enormous series of conflicts, relationships, romances, quiet moments of reflection, and humorous comedic asides that give the show its distinct flavor. But that A plot has to remain consistent or else you don't have a narrative.

I don't think anyone (well, many people) is really expecting the whole entire plot to change based on your choices, but something would be nice. The way things are at the moment the B, C, D and E plots aren't changing.

Take for example deciding to save Shaun or Duck. If you save Shaun then Shaun could survive while Duck dies. They could then carry on with the same main story arc (going to Macon, then the motel and the farm and so forth) but have things play out differently. Maybe some things are a little easier because you now have another adult to help out rather than an annoying kid to look after, while other things are a little harder because Kenny and Katjaa hate you.

There are plenty of ways they could have made your choices matter without having to completely change the whole narrative.

[Red Panda]

People complaining have it all wrong. It's just like real life!

For example, complaining about lack of choice when it will effect nothing.

I mean, you think you have free will, but nothing you do will change certain outcomes!

Nothing you do will change the game just like nothing you do will prevent Carley's death or Lilly's departure.

Yet we play: the TWD and the game of life.

What I'm saying is, why bother complaining? Choice is an illusion. It won't effect anything major. Just like with the game. So why bother to complain?

End

[ItsMeArmani]

Originally Posted by AdamLazaruso

Here's the thang. This whole game is supposed to be about making hard, emotionally driven choices, but they stop being hard choices as soon as you know that the game's going to pan out whatever way it wants to regardless of what you do.

In Episode 1 it was a hard choice between saving Shaun or saving Duck. But even though I chose to save Shaun he died and Duck survived anyway. Then I took Hershel's side over Kenny's, and ended up leaving the farm with Kenny anyway.

Then at the end of Episode 1 it's supposed to be a difficult choice between Doug and Carly (it wasn't that difficult for me because I hated Doug and wanted him DEAD), but then it turned out that whatever character you chose was absent through most of Episode 2 and is then bumped off fairly early into Episode 3...

The toughest choice of the series so far for me has been whether or not to save Larry. I did, and then he died anyway. I thought at the very least it might influence stuff with Lily in the future but now she's gone too.


By the time I got to Episode 3 none of these decisions were hard to make because I knew that regardless of what I did absolutely nothing would change beyond a character perhaps making a snide comment to me in a future conversation.


One of the main hooks and story telling devices in this game is supposed to be the harrowing emotional choices you have to make but they stopped being at all difficult or interesting the moment I realised that they didn't matter. When what is supposed to be the main feature of a game becomes irrelevant the game becomes a failure.

Fortunately the plot is good enough to stand on its own legs and keep me interested, but they shouldn't really have advertised this game so heavily as "The choices that you make affect the gameplay!" when they really really don't.




It's a discussion forum. The whole point is for us to talk about what we like about the game, what we don't, etc... If every forum for every game was just full of people "OH WOW THIS IS THE BEST THING EVER AND IT HAS ABSOLUTELY NO FLAWS AT ALL" then the internet would be a very boring place.

Saying "GO PLAY ANOTHER GAME" might be fair if this was a free game, but it isn't. We've all paid money for this game and so we have every right to air our grievances with it. It's helpful for Telltale too because it allows them to see what people don't like about their games so that they can make better games in the future. Why do you think that's a bad thing?

END LONG POST

You're assuming that complaining fans are always right. I think Telltale should listen to what they think is right and what the REASONABLE fans feedback is. The problem is is that the complainers are often not rational, clearly emotionally driven and obviously want to stir up trouble. Yes this is a discussion forum but it will cease to be that if people keep focusing on the negative.

Sure people should feel free to complain but it doesn't stop there most of the time. Complainers will often make multiple threads complaining about the same thing, complain in every thread about the same thing and will eventually start bashing Telltale for not listening to there unreasonable and selfish desires.

Complaining has a bad habit of evolving and I hope we don't see that here.

[LokiHavok]

Originally Posted by AdamLazaruso

I don't think anyone (well, many people) is really expecting the whole entire plot to change based on your choices, but something would be nice. The way things are at the moment the B, C, D and E plots aren't changing.

Take for example deciding to save Shaun or Duck. If you save Shaun then Shaun could survive while Duck dies. They could then carry on with the same main story arc (going to Macon, then the motel and the farm and so forth) but have things play out differently. Maybe some things are a little easier because you now have another adult to help out rather than an annoying kid to look after, while other things are a little harder because Kenny and Katjaa hate you.

There are plenty of ways they could have made your choices matter without having to completely change the whole narrative.

Ok let's entertain your idea for a minute. Say you save Shaun instead of Duck.
Shaun stays on the farm with his father. He has no reason to venture to Macon. Since Duck is dead. There is nothing for Larry and Kenny to argue over. Hence it would make the situation in the St. John Locker likely completely different. Kenny wouldn't have been so quick to kill Larry. Hence Lilly wouldn't have lost it had he survived. And Carley/Doug would likely still be alive.

And that's just once choice. To quote Tony Sopranos "Every decision you make affects every facet of every other fuckin' thing. It's too much to deal with almost." If the devs were to factor in every variable and the consequences of every choice the game would never see the light of day. Hence that is why some outcome are closed loop and there is an eventuality or a fate that is in the game. It's a narrative game. It's supposed to be that way. Quit complaining.

And if you're thinking to yourself. That's the kind of game I want!
With infinite choices that really make a major difference to the overarcing storyline. SO much so that the story takes a completely different turn.
You should be playing a RPG. Either tabletop or in computer form.
Cause this is a story-driven adventure game.

[AdamLazaruso]

Originally Posted by LokiHavok

Ok let's entertain your idea for a minute. Say you save Shaun instead of Duck.
Shaun stays on the farm with his father. He has no reason to venture to Macon. Since Duck is dead. There is nothing for Larry and Kenny to argue over. Hence it would make the situation in the St. John Locker likely completely different. Kenny wouldn't have been so quick to kill Larry. Hence Lilly wouldn't have lost it had he survived. And Carley/Doug would likely still be alive.

And that's just once choice. To quote Tony Sopranos "Every decision you make affects every facet of every other fuckin' thing. It's too much to deal with almost." If the devs were to factor in every variable and the consequences of every choice the game would never see the light of day. Hence that is why some outcome are closed loop and there is an eventuality or a fate that is in the game. It's a narrative game. It's supposed to be that way. Quit complaining.

And if you're thinking to yourself. That's the kind of game I want!
With infinite choices that really make a major difference to the overarcing storyline. SO much so that the story takes a completely different turn.
You should be playing a RPG. Either tabletop or in computer form.
Cause this is a story-driven adventure game.

As I said, I'm not expecting a completely different game based on my choices, I'm just expecting at least a slightly different one.

It didn't make a whole boat load of sense for me to leave Hershel and travel with Kenny after I tried to save Shaun and then yelled at Kenny afterwards, but it still happened. It wouldn't be immensely difficult to invent a reason for Shaun to go to Macon.

Duck isn't there for Kenny and Larry to argue about? Create something else for them to argue about then.

It wouldn't take a completely different storyline for them to have choices matter - just small changes to various situations.

One part of your post that I particularly object to is...

It's a narrative game. It's supposed to be that way. Quit complaining.

That's all well and good, except they've heavily advertised the game as being influenced by your choices. The Steam page for the game features quotes such as "Live with the profound and lasting consequences of the decisions that you make in each episode" and "Features meaningful decision making". At the start of every episode there's a message saying "The story and gameplay are influenced by the decisions that you make" (or something like that).

If they'd just advertised it as a normal adventure game set in The Walking Dead universe then it would be all fine and dandy, but instead they've made a promise to their customers that they've yet to keep.

[LokiHavok]

Originally Posted by AdamLazaruso

"Live with the profound and lasting consequences of the decisions that you make in each episode" and "Features meaningful decision making". At the start of every episode there's a message saying "The story and gameplay are influenced by the decisions that you make" (or something like that).

That's a matter of perspective. Obviously the game hasn't been fully released yet so we're all just speculating. But I feel that my expectation in regards to the advertising were realistically met.

You on the otherhand feel that these game is misrepresented by these claims.
It's a matter of perspective. I feel like TTG deliver in that aspect. Maybe not to the degree of a simulation. But this is a graphic adventure game. And it is cast in that mold. To expect anything else is like wishing an apple would turn into an orange.

[Master of Aeons]

...there's way too many people opening topics to talk nothing new about this.

If you think Mass Effect did it better, play Mass Effect.

Originally Posted by JackSeifer

So if you don't give a fuck don't comment, and I said nothing about mass effect and asked for a donate button so for those who support the game can actually support it's production. The point of making a game and a great story is for the people to enjoy and make money right, if so many people raging about the last chapter whys it wrong to throw out suggestions that can benefit everyone, even making their income better from the supporters. Actually stop and read someone's post all the way through before doing a reply bro

Hi, I'm replying to every topic there is about this. I did read your post and fully digested it. You only read the surface of mine and obviously didn't understand it. If you thought I was referring to you, you need to get over your duplicate post. There's a lot in this argument. Everyone says this, everyone cites Mass Effect and everyone says Telltale could have done better. Your "donate" button would do nothing to help anything because the game's script is set in stone. I said that already, in the post that you didn't read. They've made a lot of money off of this and they can use that money to fix the errors in this game for the second season. Seriously, reread my post. It does a lot more than dismiss you.

So don't accuse me of doing what you did worse, and don't call me bro.

[Androu1]

Originally Posted by AdamLazaruso

I don't think anyone (well, many people) is really expecting the whole entire plot to change based on your choices, but something would be nice. The way things are at the moment the B, C, D and E plots aren't changing.

Take for example deciding to save Shaun or Duck. If you save Shaun then Shaun could survive while Duck dies. They could then carry on with the same main story arc (going to Macon, then the motel and the farm and so forth) but have things play out differently. Maybe some things are a little easier because you now have another adult to help out rather than an annoying kid to look after, while other things are a little harder because Kenny and Katjaa hate you.

There are plenty of ways they could have made your choices matter without having to completely change the whole narrative.

That's nonsense. You're implying Duck would die if Lee ignored him, which isn't true as Kenny would most likely manage to save him anyway (like he does in the game as it is). The real difference would be that Shawn would have lived. Hershel would still get mad with Kenny for not helping Shawn, Shawn would stay in the farm, Duck would live and you would still move from the farm to Macon and everything would be exactly the same as it is right now.

[TheWildcard]

Originally Posted by AdamLazaruso

That's all well and good, except they've heavily advertised the game as being influenced by your choices. The Steam page for the game features quotes such as "Live with the profound and lasting consequences of the decisions that you make in each episode" and "Features meaningful decision making". At the start of every episode there's a message saying "The story and gameplay are influenced by the decisions that you make" (or something like that).

If they'd just advertised it as a normal adventure game set in The Walking Dead universe then it would be all fine and dandy, but instead they've made a promise to their customers that they've yet to keep.

And theres the major problem. We are coming in expecting our choices to matter and have LASTING consequences because we are told they will. Then when our choice is negated 3 seconds later its like...meh I guess it didn't really matter. The largest and only real deviation had no real impact on the story. They kept doug/carly out of the story as much as they can...and when they were in the story they played exactly the same role. That was the BIGGEST choice in the game and it hardly felt like it mattered at all.

[JackSchirmer]

Originally Posted by Master of Aeons

This game was full of choices. You mean to complain about the lack of change, not choice.

I'm so sick of hearing about this. It's gone nowhere and there's way too many people opening topics to talk nothing new about this. If you think Mass Effect did it better, play Mass Effect. They simply didn't have the money to make this game the way it should have been made when they started. Now that millions have bought this game and they have collossal profits, maybe season 2 will be more varied.

Until then, I don't give a fuck.

I get such a kick out of the way you keep showing up to tell us you don't give a fuck about all the problems with the game. Do you get paid by the post?

The dialogue on choice has been great. Well, except for the half dozen people like you, who show up in every thread in order to tell the hundred plus people addressing TTG's hamhanded, amateurish approach to it, how they're sick of hearing about it.

Do what everyone else does--if you aren't interested, and don't like it, DON'T READ THE DAMNED THREAD.

And by all means, stop trolling and distracting from interesting topices.

[Ted E. Bear]

Originally Posted by AdamLazaruso

Here's the thang. This whole game is supposed to be about making hard, emotionally driven choices, but they stop being hard choices as soon as you know that the game's going to pan out whatever way it wants to regardless of what you do.

In Episode 1 it was a hard choice between saving Shaun or saving Duck. But even though I chose to save Shaun he died and Duck survived anyway. Then I took Hershel's side over Kenny's, and ended up leaving the farm with Kenny anyway.

Then at the end of Episode 1 it's supposed to be a difficult choice between Doug and Carly (it wasn't that difficult for me because I hated Doug and wanted him DEAD), but then it turned out that whatever character you chose was absent through most of Episode 2 and is then bumped off fairly early into Episode 3...

The toughest choice of the series so far for me has been whether or not to save Larry. I did, and then he died anyway. I thought at the very least it might influence stuff with Lily in the future but now she's gone too.

[...]

I don't think anyone (well, many people) is really expecting the whole entire plot to change based on your choices, but something would be nice. The way things are at the moment the B, C, D and E plots aren't changing.

I must say I agree with AdamLazaruso.

I also think that TTG has done a very good job in keeping the game enjoyable with pressing dialogue and situational choices, without trying to do the impossible but without limiting the choices too much, either.

I always felt like my decision could be relevant even though the 90% of them ended up by being irrelevant - and that's the thing that makes the game a win.

BUT people who complains about lack of real consequences are also right. We must understand that even slight story forks do mean a lot of work to do for the developers, to keep all the branches pleasant enough.

What I ask you is then, what would you prefer? 1) Shorter episodes (about 2hrs long) but with real [small] branching, or 2) long episodes (3-4 hrs like episodes two and three have been) but only the illusion of choice?

I pick option 1. Replayability would make up for the short duration.

[Bearcules]

I am keeping an open mind since I am only 3/5 episodes in.

[TheGreatRobin]

Originally Posted by ItsMeArmani

If you don't like the choices, then GO PLAY ANOTHER GAME. What will complaining do about it? Its easy for you to sit back and complain but Telltale is doing a wonderful job with the game under the time constraints they have.

Can we just chill with the complaining and appreciate the game for what it is? *sigh* I hope this forum doesn't transform into a whine fest...

Really? This is an official forum from TT, if there is one place a TT costumer can complain and say (ok write) his opinion, its here.
You like the game for 100 %, he dont. So why say stuff like "its easy to sit back and complain". Dont get me wrong, I love the Episodes so fare, on the other hand I completly understand his thoughts, I am thinking some of the stuff he wrote myself.

[Motordead]

TL;DR

Less qq please.