US Elections 2012

[donmike84]

regilion and politices and the usa are the three most hated topics to talk about

[Noname215]

They are both total fakes. I hope neither of them wins.

[DAISHI]

Originally Posted by Noname215

They are both total fakes. I hope neither of them wins.

Good job, you don't count.

[JedExodus]

Originally Posted by Noname215

They are both total fakes. I hope neither of them wins.

All politicians are fakes, fakes that market themselves either to voter a or voter b.

I am yet to meet a sincere politician and am very much of the mindset there is no such thing, no matter how good their intentions may have been when they stepped into the game.

[DAISHI]

Originally Posted by JedExodus

All politicians are fakes, fakes that market themselves either to voter a or voter b.

I am yet to meet a sincere politician and am very much of the mindset there is no such thing, no matter how good their intentions may have been when they stepped into the game.

Nobody is sincere. It's the human race, everyone lies, is deceitful or at best, can't tell the whole truth.

[Haggis]

Originally Posted by JedExodus

All politicians are fakes, fakes that market themselves either to voter a or voter b.

I am yet to meet a sincere politician and am very much of the mindset there is no such thing, no matter how good their intentions may have been when they stepped into the game.

This. Power corrupts. If you're trying to get more power, you apparently want to be corrupted.

[coolsome]

Originally Posted by Haggis

This. Power corrupts. If you're trying to get more power, you apparently want to be corrupted.

[JedExodus]

Originally Posted by DAISHI

Nobody is sincere. It's the human race, everyone lies, is deceitful or at best, can't tell the whole truth.

We sorta need somebody better than Joe Bloggs sitting in the White House. Sure you and I are dishonest shitheads, fair play, we're human and that's normal. The man in charge of the most powerful nation on Earth shouldn't be and cannot be.

Originally Posted by Haggis

This. Power corrupts. If you're trying to get more power, you apparently want to be corrupted.

Could never put it better myself, the very desire to be a politician should disqualify you from ever being one.

[DAISHI]

Originally Posted by JedExodus

We sorta need somebody better than Joe Bloggs sitting in the White House. Sure you and I are dishonest shitheads, fair play, we're human and that's normal. The man in charge of the most powerful nation on Earth shouldn't be and cannot be.



Could never put it better myself, the very desire to be a politician should disqualify you from ever being one.

The very nature of our political system illustrates the fact that the founding fathers believed no one to be really good. Since all men are inherently self interested, and because self interests can be deemed 'good' only by those who fall on the side of a particular politician and 'bad' by those opposed, it's best to set opposing self interests against each other. Thus arises the House-Senate balance as well as the general system of checks and balances.

[JedExodus]

Originally Posted by DAISHI

The very nature of our political system illustrates the fact that the founding fathers believed no one to be really good. Since all men are inherently self interested, and because self interests can be deemed 'good' only by those who fall on the side of a particular politician and 'bad' by those opposed, it's best to set opposing self interests against each other. Thus arises the House-Senate balance as well as the general system of checks and balances.

Aren't you guys first-past-the-post? Presumably (and please correct me if i've got this wrong as I haven't studied US Politics since school) that leaves you with a strong government and plenty of representatives to tow the incumbents party line in the house? And if so, how are checks and balances any real benefit?

[DAISHI]

Originally Posted by JedExodus

Aren't you guys first-past-the-post? Presumably (and please correct me if i've got this wrong as I haven't studied US Politics since school) that leaves you with a strong government and plenty of representatives to tow the incumbents party line in the house? And if so, how are checks and balances any real benefit?

The fact that the executive seat (president) is usually run by a different party from the legislature (Senate and House) means it usually forces compromise. The U.S. is, indeed, in a period of irrational lack of compromise, but that hasn't usually been the case. Democrats control the presidential seat and senate, but since republicans control the house, they'll have to work with each other and address each others' concerns if they want to make any progress.

[puzzlebox]

I found The Trouble with the Electoral College helpful in understanding the "quirks" of the US voting system - highly recommend taking a few minutes to watch it if you want to learn how it works.

If the system doesn't make sense to you, that's probably because it really is nonsensical. Basically if you live a state where most people support a different party, your vote pretty much doesn't count. To me it seems incredibly unfair. Should be one person equals one vote, and all votes carry equal weight.

Originally Posted by JedExodus

All politicians are fakes, fakes that market themselves either to voter a or voter b.

I am yet to meet a sincere politician and am very much of the mindset there is no such thing, no matter how good their intentions may have been when they stepped into the game.

I'd call former Senator Bob Brown a sincere politician, or at least as close as you can get to it (though he's probably one of a sadly small group). He's a medically trained environmentalist and openly gay. He started out as a leader of the Franklin Dam protest, a watershed (heh) case for the protection of old-growth rainforests. He spent 19 days in jail for that protest.

He's won the Australian Peace Prize, the Humanist of the Year prize, and once contributed $100,000 of his own money to help free an Australian photojournalist who was held hostage in Somalia for over a year.

At least outwardly, he spent his entire career standing up for things he believes in instead of pandering to the popular vote, and I'm proud that I come from a country where a man like Bob Brown can be a successful politician.

[DAISHI]

Originally Posted by puzzlebox

I found The Trouble with the Electoral College helpful in understanding the "quirks" of the US voting system - highly recommend taking a few minutes to watch it if you want to learn how it works.

If the system doesn't make sense to you, that's probably because it really is nonsensical. Basically if you live a state where most people support a different party, your vote pretty much doesn't count. To me it seems incredibly unfair. Should be one person equals one vote, and all votes carry equal weight.

The founding fathers would argue that this can't possibly be true. If the majority of a nation's population concentrated in one state, for example, then the needs of that state would outweigh the needs of all others on the basis that it is weighted toward that state. The electoral college serves a few purposes. First, the fathers really didn't think the general population could be trusted anyway. But further, popular support has to be distributed across the nation as opposed to within a single state. It's why Obama can have populous states on his side but still be dancing the tango with Romney who has less populous states on his. The electoral college requires the formation of coalitions within the states and appeals to multiple states as opposed to a few. If you're a minority, the electoral college is doubly important because it enhances the status of your vote.Given their lower numbers, they nevertheless retain a key presence in concentrated districts where they can have influence on influential districts. This means it requires addressing their issues, as they can help swing a state.