Team Lily to the end (appreciation thread)

[DreadMagus]

I have to admit, despite everything... I find I just can't hate Lilly....

I hope the novel really does focus on her, rather than having her just in it.

[YamiRaziel]

Originally Posted by DreadMagus

I have to admit, despite everything... I find I just can't hate Lilly....

I hope the novel really does focus on her, rather than having her just in it.

I hope so too. In my opinion Lilly is one of the best characters in TWD (thanks to the game, of course) and making her the bad guy in ep.3 really adds more depth to her personality and her possible development in the book.

[bazenji]

Originally Posted by YamiRaziel

Kenny and Lee had kids to take care, so they wouldn't risk dealing with bandits. It is a sound logic and I was thinking of it too when I played this ep. for the first time.
As for Carley, I can't really agree that she was challenging Lilly's leadership. Carley rarely did anything besides shooting a few heads.

Did you skip Episodes 1 and 2 or something? The first time you meet Lilly, it's a fight with Carley because Carley just rescued everybody from zombies.

Everybody. That was Carley. She rolls out and shoots all the zombies in the head and then Glenn comes by and shows you to the office.

Actually, when has Lilly rescued anybody except for that one time MAYBE if you perform CPR on her dad. Other than that, she never saves a single life in the game.

Hell, you save 6 times as many people as she possibly can in her entire life in ONE scene at the start of Episode 3.

Not one.

Lilly's entire role in the game is to shout at you for rescuing people and then tell you how hard it is being the boss of everybody even when no one actually thinks she's the boss. And then she shoots Carley/Doug in the head.

Lilly's absolutely useless in this game. She's a parasite. If she didn't seem like a romantic option, no one would defend her.

No matter how much Kenny hates you, he ends up saving your life in this game more often than you save his. And this is a guy who repeatedly seems to leave you to die.

And yet there's a hate thread for Kenny while everyone talks about how much they love Lilly -- for shooting the BIGGEST hero in the game other than Lee right in the dome for backsassing her.

Is this why serial killers get love letters or something?

As much as people hate Kenny for letting you struggle if you turn your back on him, at least he doesn't actively try to get you killed like Lilly does the first time you meet her.

[YamiRaziel]

Haha, I'm sorry but that made me laugh.
Yeah, Carley shoots one or max two zombies in that first scene. Far from shooting all the zombies. I guess you skipped episode 1.
Then Lilly calls her stupid for risking all their lives to save people she didn't know. Guess what? She was right! There's a convicted murderer in that group and Kenny who's constantly blaming you for not letting people die. People said that Lilly was the Shane of this group, I would say it's Kenny. He's willing to let people die even when his family isn't present. Replay the beginning of ep.3 if you disagree.
Lilly does not shout to you when you rescue people, she shouts when you are bringing people to the group without knowing them. There's a huge difference in that. Let's remember what happen in ep.3! There was a traitor and who it was? The guy Lee brought in? He might not have meant ill, but he did keep his deal with the bandits secret... So maybe Lilly is right for not trusting people right away?

Lilly's absolutely useless in this game. She's a parasite. If she didn't seem like a romantic option, no one would defend her.

Substitute Lilly with Carley and I might agree.
Kenny... there's a hate thread for Kenny because he leaves you to die far too many times and also killed Larry. People seem to forget about Larry. It might look to you that leaving Larry to die is not bad decision, now, but when we were discussing ep.2 (in the **** kenny thread) this was nowhere near right. To me even now it is not right, probably because I don't judge about events that haven't happened yet. Lilly have been always back me up, saved my life in ep.2 and later she saved all our lives in ep 3.
Why wouldn't I make an appreciation thread for her? She's a great character that develops a lot through the game. At first she's more rational, keeping her compassionate side away. In ep.3 she thinks that letting the girl suffer was wrong on many levels, while Kenny thinks it is right. People made the **** kenny thread because he doesn't help anyone except for his family. He changes for the worst and even Katjaa notices that.
Lilly starts as a tough girl who's trying to keep everybody alive. Then she toughens even more, not trusting people outside the camp. After the meat locker she realizes she has been wrong. The dangers are not only outside the group but within it as well. She let's her compassionate side show more as she realized that "The list of people I can trust gets shorter every day!". She then goes even more paranoid and founding that there was a traitor in the group really does bring her to the edge.
Then she does something that I'm sure she'll regret for her entire life. That's disappointing Lee, of course, not killing Carley.
She believed Carley or Ben were the traitors and though she was wrong, Carley did indeed look guilty with all the "I'm gonna be the good girl that's gonna protect everybody, even though that guy must be the one who almost got everybody killed and made us leave or home".
You're mistaken my friend, there are no heroes in this game.
I'm sorry if you cannot appreciate how well written Lilly's character is and how much she brought to this story. Carley is the love interest you all fall for and despite how much you love her, she wasn't integral to the story. If you save Doug in ep.1 you'll see that I'm right.

[Rock114]

Yami isn't defending Lilly because he thought she was a potential love interest, he just really likes her character. I like Lilly's character too, and agree that the game would be different without her, and possibly not in a good way. As for siding with Lilly...I never did that once. In my playthrough she's a cold-hearted bitch (from my point of view) who went over the edge when someone else made one of the "hard choices" she's always going on about (Kenny in the meat locker). While killing Larry may not have been exactly right, it may have been necessary which is why I backed Kenny up.

Besides, she agrees with her dad to throw Duck out in Ep1 if you stay silent. She was all for killing a child she just met because he was a "potential danger." What did she do when Larry became a "potential danger?" While she is a great character, I hate her personality. Thought I may have gotten to see the true her after Larry died, but she lost it. And can we truly just forgive her for the murder of a group member? No matter how you hash it, it's nearly impossible to walk away from the RV scene and see Lilly as looking out for the group's well being.

[plaqueconspiracy]

I'm sorry, I thought this thread was about supporting Lily's decision and to somehow prove that she was not in the wrong. To discuss her personality.

Because I think Lily's a great character and that she fits well in the TWD world. I approve and support the existance or Lily in the game. But f#¥k her as a person.

[rachellouise85]

@plaqueconspiracy
I don't know, maybe you don't have much interaction with people face to face or something , people get angry and do/say things things they cannot take back in moments of anger. There's no need to build a straw man for your argument, it's pretty simple. Point out where I ever said she was right doing what she did.

[sparkzfly]

I liked Lilly and supported her in the investigation and trying to bring back her dad....but I just can't forgive her for what she did.

[plaqueconspiracy]

Originally Posted by rachellouise85

@plaqueconspiracy
I don't know, maybe you don't have much interaction with people face to face or something , people get angry and do/say things things they cannot take back in moments of anger. There's no need to build a straw man for your argument, it's pretty simple. Point out where I ever said she was right doing what she did.

I'm not exactly sure why you're telling me that people do bad stuff when they're angry. I am aware of this. You came out of nowhere and said it so I figured you're trying to justify the murder somehow. We are now on the same page. ... Unless you're still trying to do that. Under a rage blackout or not, you're still a bad person for doing something Lily did in that moment. "I was mad, Your Honor. So, are we cool?". She's bad. I'm good.

For the record, I do not have anger issues. I am not mentally unstable. And I sure as hell don't know what kind of interactions you have with people on a daily basis. I commute roughly 4-5 hours a day (train, tram and bus) so I meet and talk to a lot of people. I have not had many instances where someone gets shot in the face for calling someone a scared little girl.

[eblocksonian]

Lilly does not reward you for your loyalty. Even after you decided to bring her back onto the RV, telling her she should go, and then agreeing to go with her, she ditches after she tricks you into leaving the RV.

[Goldrock]

Both kenny and lilly were not good leader imo because 1 lilly was only looking after her dad and she got dillusional after the freezer part understandable. 2 kenny was only looking after his family which is also understandable.

[DreadMagus]

Lilly's a great character. My second fav (Carley being first)

It's just a shame she went a little batshit crazy for a short time and suffered a bad case of "I'MGONNAMURDERYOUCARLEY!!!"....

My only real regret, is that I wish they had waited for Episode 4 to ditch those four.....

[YamiRaziel]

Well, I like Lilly's personality as well. I think she was a great leader to an unworthy group.

[DreadMagus]

I think if the situation were a little more stable (I mean, how the hell can you really keep it together in a ZA?) she'd have been the perfect leader.

[YamiRaziel]

Originally Posted by DreadMagus

I think if the situation were a little more stable (I mean, how the hell can you really keep it together in a ZA?) she'd have been the perfect leader.

Yeah, I agree. She had what one needs in order to be a great leader. However, the group somehow didn't help. They watched how Lilly and Kenny would argue all the time without really trying to find some sort of permanent solution. I knew things wouldn't last long enough after the meat locker scene. Something bad was bound to happen and the only way to avoid it was if the group split into smaller once right after ep. 2.

[MichaCHOW]

Originally Posted by YamiRaziel

Well, I like Lilly's personality as well. I think she was a great leader to an unworthy group.

That's just suggesting that everyone in any ZA group should all be comprised of people who only care about living.

There's no way Lilly can redeem herself at all. If this is the past, she killed a member of a group because she's unstable.

Then in the future she kills Lori and Judith and follows under a sociopath dictator. Shooting the Governor doesn't redeem anything of what she did.

She was unstable that her dad died, and went paranoid and killed someone because of it. Then she's obviously still not in her right mind following someone like the Governor, and then you think she's going to stabilize after murdering a baby? Not happening, not in any world I know unless she enjoys killing like a sociopath.

[DreadMagus]

Is anyone in that settings hands clean?

[Xarne]

Ep1
Lilly /Larry had control of the group. She's the brain he's the brawn
2 males, a bleeding boy and his mother come charging in.
You dont even make introductions and her authority is challenged with Duck.
Kenny immediately starts throwing his 'I have a family to protect' weight around and apparently assumes command.
Ep2
Group rules no one into our compound
In comes Lee/Kenny and 3 stangers (unforseeable; but could be seen as a breach of rules by Lily).
Stress of rationing food is on her mind.
The 2 men who she didnt even want into the group kill her father (whether you help or not, thats how she sees it)
Now she's a female in charge of a group with 2 able bodied men, one is clearly fighting her for the leaders's spot. And she's all alone.
Ep3
On top of everything else; she suspects a traitor
'that bitch' who wont listen to her commands from Ep1 is now mouthing off to her.
Kenny has a smart remark for every decision she makes for the group (Ben on watch)
Now on top of it all, the traitor has brought the bandits right to their doorstep and caught them totally off guard-everything she was thinking is confirmed;
'no one is listening to me; we're getting lazy; this kinda shit is gonna get us all killed; we need to nip this in the bud and make an example' type thinking is probably boiling through her

Now granted, you catch more flies with honey than vinegar. Lily doesnt even know what honey is. She's military; she doesnt deal in small talk and civility; she expects people to follow orders (probably like she's used to). But her shining trait is that she was GROUP-oriented, unlike Kenny who wouldnt think twice turning tail and leaving them all to die as long as his family is alive.
Kenny's constant smart remarks, heard within group range and always in Lee's ear totally undermined her efforts of unifying the group under her command.

[plaqueconspiracy]

She's military but she wasn't exactly a soldier. Put a group of strangers with polar personalities on their survival grind in a group together and there will be trouble. How long had they been holding out in the drug store again? A day? A few days? She and her dad instantly decided that the life of others are worth jack shit. How many hours does it take to lose your humanity and go bananas? You'd think a few more than just a couple. They say Lee and the others are just a bunch of strangers and are not to be trusted but they were all strangers and she was trying to boss them and make very harsh decisions for them. How could you ever just expect and order someone to let two families just die right in front of them?

[Xarne]

you'd be surprised what humans are capable when they're in survival mode