[SPOILERS]Ben's character and deeds

[YamiRaziel]

Originally Posted by bazenji

Which part. The part where Lilly shoots Carley in the face for talking smack to her because she's crazy? Or the part where Lilly threatens to kill Ben for cutting a deal with bandits?

Because Ben was absolutely right in being terrified of Lilly. She's a monster.

She's not a monster and she wouldn't have killed him. They would've banished him from the group. That's it!

Carley died because she started talking back in the worst possible moment. Had she said it wasn't her and that it must have been Ben, he would crack and admit it was him.
Defending the guy who almost got the entire group killed isn't something to be proud of. She was obstructing the law! (Lee)

[Xarne]

Originally Posted by YamiRaziel

She's not a monster and she wouldn't have killed him. They would've banished him from the group. That's it!

Carley died because she started talking back in the worst possible moment. Had she said it wasn't her and that it must have been Ben, he would crack and admit it was him.
Defending the guy who almost got the entire group killed isn't something to be proud of. She was obstructing the law! (Lee)

As much as I like Lily; somebody was definitely dying that night
Im sure she was seeing Red the minute they had to leave the motel and in the way they had to do it.

[Cyreen]

Originally Posted by YamiRaziel

She's not a monster and she wouldn't have killed him.

Evidently you haven't played the Dougie version?

[DreadMagus]

Why would the smartest in the group take a bullet for the dumbest?

Does this mean that maybe they're reversed?

Maybe Doug is an idiot and Ben is in fact a mastermind?

[Viser]

No, it just means Doug is the nicest guy ever.

[Xarne]

Originally Posted by DreadMagus

Why would the smartest in the group take a bullet for the dumbest?

Does this mean that maybe they're reversed?

Maybe Doug is an idiot and Ben is in fact a mastermind?

I think Doug just tripped into the bullet; he wasnt the most agile in the group nor very lucky.

[DreadMagus]

Damn the bad luck.

[Milosuperspesh]

you can argue that carley see's the best in everyone she did protect lee in ep1, a lot bigger than stealing,

but having a weak link is how these things go, the weak will always seek out the strong for protection and in doing so are unaware of the consequences of their actions..

ben being naive/stupid/retarded into believing 'bandits' any smart person would ask for proof life and evidence before risking others but no a scared kid is always selfish and stupid..

imo these types should be dealt with no hand holding or sympathy they should be punished true a bullet to the head is extreme and the end of the matter.

imo it's like all these k stew and rpatz should get back together groups, one side cheated with the stupid notion they wouldn't be caught, they allowed them selves to be 'convinced it was worth the risk' it's pathetic, retarded logic that kills..

so to sum up ben (who happens to be the spitting image of an old schoolmate who was pretty much a combo of kenny and larry) should be punished..i think some close calls with a few walkers will do the job nicely..

[thestalkinghead]

Originally Posted by Milosuperspesh

you can argue that carley see's the best in everyone she did protect lee in ep1, a lot bigger than stealing,

but having a weak link is how these things go, the weak will always seek out the strong for protection and in doing so are unaware of the consequences of their actions..

ben being naive/stupid/retarded into believing 'bandits' any smart person would ask for proof life and evidence before risking others but no a scared kid is always selfish and stupid..

imo these types should be dealt with no hand holding or sympathy they should be punished true a bullet to the head is extreme and the end of the matter.

imo it's like all these k stew and rpatz should get back together groups, one side cheated with the stupid notion they wouldn't be caught, they allowed them selves to be 'convinced it was worth the risk' it's pathetic, retarded logic that kills..

so to sum up ben (who happens to be the spitting image of an old schoolmate who was pretty much a combo of kenny and larry) should be punished..i think some close calls with a few walkers will do the job nicely..

do i know you?

[Rock114]

If you saved Doug, Lilly shoves the gun in Ben's face on a hunch. So yeah, she would have killed him, and TRIED, but Doug saved him. Poor Doug, he was a true bro. And I wouldn't say that Lilly is a monster, she just lost it and overreacted. Heck, she was even sorry if she kills Doug: "It wasn't supposed to be him.", and she truly seems to think that Carley did it: "It was her, she couldn't be trusted." Plus, she seemed to be near tears to me, which is why I almost let her stay. She just seemed so sure of herself (if it was Carley that died).

[lackingsaint]

Jesus, what the hell is wrong with you people? Wanting to kill Ben? He was a scared teenager who fucked up, are you all honestly telling me that at 16 or 17, none of you would freak out and make horrible decisions in a zombie-goddamn-apocalypse? He wanted to keep his group safe, he wanted to confirm the safety of his friends, absolutely nothing Ben has ever done was done because of an unkind or selfish thought. If "he messed up, let's throw him off the train" is a valid reasoning for any of you guys, I sure would hate to be a part of your group!

[DreadMagus]

If you got people in my group killed, yeah, you would hate being a part of it.

[Cyreen]

Originally Posted by lackingsaint

Jesus, what the hell is wrong with you people? Wanting to kill Ben?

I do find it interesting that the penalty for murder is banishment, while stealing and lying seem warrant the death penalty.

[DreadMagus]

Because a murderer can still perform a service, they're more likely to kill zombies during their exile. Those are zombies you don't have to deal with.

A Thief on the other hand, is sneaky - so they avoid stuff, and are thus of no value.

True story.

[lackingsaint]

Originally Posted by DreadMagus

If you got people in my group killed, yeah, you would hate being a part of it.

An odd defense to use, considering Ben is one of the few people who hasn't directly killed anyone else in the group (considering Lily and Kenny). I could just as well say Carley should have died as punishment for the death of Doug, because we saved her and she had that gun!

[DreadMagus]

No.

That's just... lulzworthy.

You could only save one or the other and you didn't create the situation.

Ben's actions on the other hand, no one needed "saving" before he got the ball rolling and he created it.

[Sisterofshane]

Originally Posted by DreadMagus

No.

That's just... lulzworthy.

You could only save one or the other and you didn't create the situation.

Ben's actions on the other hand, no one needed "saving" before he got the ball rolling and he created it.

Why don't we blame Lee for Mark's death, then? It is Lee who suggests that they can "check the perimeter" by themselves, which is what leads to eventual chopping off and eating of Mark's legs.

For that matter, let's blame Glenn for the everyone's death so far. He was the one that led us to the Motor Inn where everyone (save for Shaun and Carley/Doug) died. If we had never gone to motor inn, maybe everyone would still be alive.

Here's what I think would have happened had Ben not believed the bandits when they claimed they had his friend...They would have kept attacking the motor inn. They would have been unrelenting. We would have been forced to leave much sooner. We could have possibly saved more lives, but then again, we could have possibly lost more people in continuing Bandit attacks. Lilly would have still been on the brink of losing it - maybe we could have "stepped on eggshells" until Lilly could have a chance to heal. Or maybe she would have gone crazy and shot somebody at the drop of the hat. Pretty sure it would have been the latter, because she had a habit of becoming MORE hostile when things didn't go her way.

There would have been much more conflict down the line. The group would have still been fractured (losing people has a way to unite the survivors). Every member still would have been self-serving. I doubt Lilly would take very kindly to Chuck, Christa or Omid joining the group (based on her character when we first meet her, and then when Ben joins the group, she is inherently distrustful of newcomers).

So yes, Ben made a stupid decision. I still think that things wold have not necessarily been better had he NOT made the deal with the bandits. Hopefully we've ALL learned what happens when we keep secrets from one another, and how dangerous it can be. I don't believe that Ben is responsible for anyone's death. And now, we have the added benefit of him having to try harder to redeem himself.

Besides, I think Chuck teaches us a very valuable lesson - whatever we were, right now, WE ARE ALIVE. We shouldn't discriminate against each other like the bandits. Ben is, at his core, a good person. I don't think we can afford to discount him based on one bad decision.

[Cyreen]

Originally Posted by Sisterofshane

Ben is, at his core, a good person. I don't think we can afford to discount him based on one bad decision.

Agreed. I also think that had he not made a deal with the bandits, he would have been the first casualty.

[NessaT]

Originally Posted by DreadMagus

Because a murderer can still perform a service, they're more likely to kill zombies during their exile. Those are zombies you don't have to deal with.

A Thief on the other hand, is sneaky - so they avoid stuff, and are thus of no value.

True story.

I agree on this point. Lee is living proof that a convicted killer is capable of caring for a child and helping people out. Shit happened for him. He lost control and he killed someone.

Stealing meds is another matter altogether. It's a calculated move. It didn't matter that Ben had good intensions - the fact was, he stole from the group when he should have consulted them about the dealings with the bandit.

I'm not saying that Ben is an evil person that deserved to be killed, but anyone who puts thought into making decisions that are detrimental to the team is of no value.

[DreadMagus]

Originally Posted by Sisterofshane

Why don't we blame Lee for Mark's death, then? It is Lee who suggests that they can "check the perimeter" by themselves, which is what leads to eventual chopping off and eating of Mark's legs.

Wow, I'm utterly amazed at how many ways and times you can split that hair.