What else is there to talk about?

[Anakin Skywalker]

With regard to KQ in general, what else is there left to discuss? We've discussed pretty much everything about every game in the series to death. What more can we talk about? I hope, if anything, that this thread might get people thinking, with the hope of maybe provoking some new discussion.

[Lambonius]

We could talk about whether or not Mask of Eternity is really a King's Quest game.

[BagginsKQ]

Been there, done that hundreds of times... It's literally the KQ8 law that most KQ discussions especially those that head in direction of KQ8 end up that way.

[Blackthorne519]

It's not. Clearly.


Bt

[BagginsKQ]

Most of the King's Quest games aren't "King's Quests"... most were actually elitist "technology demo" wank fests.... Not designed for general public but only designed for a small group of "game or technology enthusiests" paraphrasing what Roberta has said in the past. They were never mainstream or the most successful games on the market.

Most aren't even "King's Quests".

KQ1, you are not a king, but are on a quest for a king, and become a king at the end...

KQ2 you are a king on a quest...

KQ3 you aren't playing a king... KQ4 doesn't have you playing a king. You are at least saving the kingdom of Daventry or a quest to save the King Graham.... But you were never on a quest from a king.

KQ6 at least has a player becoming a king, although he doesn't save the kingdom of Daventry.... I suppose it also has him saving some kingdom at least. But he's never on a quest from a king. Graham appears, but is not much more than a cameo, if you get the best ending.

KQ7 doesn't even have Graham, nor do you 'save' Daventry, nor does it have a save the King of Daventry story, or story where a character becomes a king... It at least has the player saving some kingdom, but the quest is not from a king...

KQ8 you aren't a king (again just a knight at the most, similar to Graham in KQ1), you aren't directly given a quest from a king (but you do get part of your quest from a magic mirror that has given quests to various characters in previous games), you do save a few kings though (including King Graham), and it is about saving the kingdom of Daventry, and a handful of other lands....

However, even still King's Quest isn't the most misnamed series out there... That would probably be the "Final Fantasy" series... If it was really the "Final Fantasy" the series should have ended with the first one!

[Lambonius]

Hook, line, sinker.

[Blackthorne519]

No, King's Quests 1-7 are King's Quests. Mask of Eternity was something else, with a KQ name slapped on it.


Bt

[Lambonius]

Mask of Eternity COULD have felt more like King's Quest, but they didn't expand enough on Connor's backstory and psychological motivations. Would it have killed him to show a little emotion once in a while?

[BagginsKQ]

Earliest KQ games have characters with little or no emotion at all, and are over glorified 'treasure hunts'... With 'silent protaganists'. Some might argue they don't really have 'puzzles' per se either. Mostly just fetch quests at the most. Pretty much nothing to do with psychological motivations (actually most of the series lacks "psychological motivations" for the most part, it isn't Jane Jensen's series )... Not much backstory either in most the games, unless you actually take the time to read the manuals...

It really wasn't until KQ4 that story became more of the focus (even KQ3 was fairly limited). But KQ4 probably had more emotion than any game before it, and most games after it. Roberta claims that women and some men may apparently cried when she showed the intro video to them at a convention.

KQ5? Graham is practically emotionless still... He's said to be sad in some game descriptions, but shows very little of that. The 'voice' acting from various characters doesn't really show any emotion either.

KQ6, sure probably second game after KQ4 to have some emotion, and voice actors for characters that have noticeable and realistic emotion. It's not really "psychological" per se, but its the closest the series has to it, and that's probably because of Jane Jensen's influence.

KQ7 sure characters have emotions, but its basically all saccarine and silly! Rosella has a little bit of 'rude and spoiled' aspects in parts of the game "Eww yuck, princesses don't do this" kinda attitude (this still comes off rather silly)... I'd question if its has any 'psychological motivations'... Although Valanice has a firm idea why she's in the adventure, to save her lost daughter... She also cries a bit because of this loss as well, when she thinks about her (which is part of a puzzle solution). Still this comes off kind of forced and overly dramatic than emotional.

KQ8, other characters have emotions (but more closer to KQ6 in quality and seriousness), and Connor's personality is basically "super hero". "I'm here to save the day, stand a side'! He does have a couple of nice speeches though on nature of "honor", "justice" and "nobility". Still makes him sound like a super hero though... Connor's backstory is also limited to the manual for the most part, the official website, and a few things he comments about when looking around Daventry, or other characters say about him...

The tale thus far...

In a time long ago, magic and myth is embodied in every living creature roaming the world. Unicorns graze in forest meadows, wizards concoct mystical spells and kings and queens manage thriving kingdoms.
In the kingdom of Daventry, inhabitants enjoy peace and prosperity under the rule of the majestic King Graham. But one day, the kingdom's serenity turns to disorder. An evil being takes up quarters in the sacred sanctity of the Mask of Eternity - the global icon of truth, light and order. With arms thrust upward, he summons a dark spell. The skies darken and bolts of lightning converge on the temple. With a powerful burst, the mask explodes into pieces that fall to the world below.

Meanwhile, in Daventry, a young townsperson named Connor is about to become the most important person in the world's history. As the Mask of Eternity rains down on the land, one piece lands at Connor's feet. Just as he picks it up, the supernatural spell reaches ground. In a flash, every inhabitant of the beloved kingdom turns to stone. That is, every inhabitant but one. With the sacred mask piece in hand, Connor is somehow protected from the consequences of the omen.

Playing the role of Connor, you must gather strength and courage and set out on the ultimate quest: reseat the Mask of Eternity and restore law, light and order to your world. Only then can global order be restored!

Journeying beyond Daventry, you will visit otherworldly realms filled with unimaginable characters, brain-twisting tests of courage and incredible challenges. But the spread of evil has created an extra challenge - dark creatures roaming free across the land are ready for a fight. It'll take perfect marksmanship and a sharp sword to keep these from ending your quest!

http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/Con...ity_and_traits

[BagginsKQ]

There is always "The Silver Lining" (or the AGDI remakes) if people want to see KQ characters have forced overly-dramatic moody and angsty 'emotions' and 'psychological motivations'...

Cause really, that kinda stuff doesn't really exist in main series proper...

[exo]

sounds like a damn anime.

[Lambonius]

Originally Posted by exo

sounds like a damn anime.

That's another thing--I think KQ8 would have been significantly more enjoyable if Connor had had more stylish clothing and hair, maybe something spiky. It certainly would have made the game more popular with the ladies.

Baggins, do you have any information about sales figures of KQ8 for different gender and sexual orientation demographics?

[BagginsKQ]

Conner in his starting outfit looks like Alexander basically, especially the version seen in KQ5! ...or Graham without a hat. Same kinda "rustic knight/squire/ranger" outfit Graham wears in the series just in a different color. Actually apparently early on they had toyed with the idea of Alexander being the hero in the game. Coincidently both Alex and Connor say similar epitaphs such as Zounds! All three share the same blackish hair and hair style. Alex and Connor look like they could be separated at birth.

Sorry Lambonius I don't think Sierra ever got real specific on the demographics for most of their games. Roberta did bring up facts about the gender demographics for KQ4 long after the fact but that's more so she could describe the controversy surrounding that game. From that we also know here earliest games also was largely a male player base.

According to a survey of the player's genders made after the game's release; it was asked if they preferred to play a male or female characters. It was found out that by in large male player base didn't care if they played a male or female character, as long as the game was good, and it fit and felt good to them. The female audience on the other hand, preferred by in large, to play a female character. They didn't really like playing male characters.

They might have said that KQ7 was more popular with women and children as well, but I'm not sure at the moment (I'd need to go look back over my notes). I know at least her target audience was intended to include young children that Disney animated movies often targeted.

Interesting note KQ8's target audience was teens to adults as far as age demographics. We also know it apparently outsold KQ7 (a game which probably outsold even KQ5 which was one of the series best sellers even outselling KQ6) but probably not Phantasmagoria at least in first year figures (which was Sierra's at the time of KQ8's release best-selling adventure game).

[MusicallyInspired]

Baggins, how can you fall for it exactly every time?


Just popped into my head, KQ3 could have been called "Lack of Maternity".

[Chyron8472]

Originally Posted by Lambonius

Hook, line, sinker.

indeed.



ahem... ON TOPIC:

Originally Posted by Anakin Skywalker

With regard to KQ in general, what else is there left to discuss? We've discussed pretty much everything about every game in the series to death. What more can we talk about? I hope, if anything, that this thread might get people thinking, with the hope of maybe provoking some new discussion.

I'm not really sure. I know what you're trying to do is foster mature conversation about it, and I'm trying to think of what else to talk about that hasn't been already mentioned. For right now, nothing occurs to me.


EDIT: Okay, I thought of something. Given the arguments that have gone on about the direction of KQ7 and MoE which mention Roberta's involvement/opinions for the future of adventure games, I'm not certain that I would (hypothetically) want her to be involved in this project . Suffice it to say that I'm not sure she understands what makes KQ5 and KQ6 the most popular of the franchise, so I wouldn't expect her to be of any help in keeping to the feel of those games. It doesn't matter if she created the franchise; it matters if she's a benefit to the project.

[Anakin Skywalker]

Originally Posted by Chyron8472

indeed.



ahem... ON TOPIC:
I'm not really sure. I know what you're trying to do is foster mature conversation about it, and I'm trying to think of what else to talk about that hasn't been already mentioned. For right now, nothing occurs to me.


EDIT: Okay, I thought of something. Given the arguments that have gone on about the direction of KQ7 and MoE which mention Roberta's involvement/opinions for the future of adventure games, I'm not certain that I would (hypothetically) want her to be involved in this project . Suffice it to say that I'm not sure she understands what makes KQ5 and KQ6 the most popular of the franchise, so I wouldn't expect her to be of any help in keeping to the feel of those games. It doesn't matter if she created the franchise; it matters if she's a benefit to the project.

I wouldn't want her involved because from all accounts, the experience of the sale of Sierra and KQ8 drained her emotionally. Her heart wouldn't be in it, for one, which would just lead to a forced product. Secondly, in her last interview (2006) she said she hadn't played any computer games since 1996 or 1998. Given Ken's more recent comments about how they haven't even gone into a game store in about the same time, I wouldn't want her on the project except perhaps as a consultant because she wouldn't understand games or the gaming industry today.

I do think she'd understand what made people love KQ5; She created that one and designed it herself. KQ6 is just a bit more mature but isn't all THAT different. I think she could make a good KQ game if there wasn't any market pressure on her. If she could just go and make a game without worrying about changing or changed demographics or appealing to shareholders, we'd have games in the same vein as I-V.

The only reason KQVIII turned out as they did is because you had people everywhere--her own husband, even--declaring the adventure genre dead. Or that at the very least, the genre had to become radically different to survive. Add into that all the rapidly changing demographics of the computer game industry in the mid-late 90s. It was sort of desperation. Roberta was both trying to jump on bandwagons (3D, RPG, Action, Myst-style adventures) while also trying to innovate the genre in her own way. Not only that, but, when she made 8, she was under tremendous pressure from at first the shareholders to pump out a hit, and then later less friendly CEOs who weren't so patient with her going overbudget and behind schedule. It was just a toxic soup which really only existed because of a bunch of factors that were around in '96-'98...Not so much now.

Not only that, but she has the benefit of hindsight now. She knows what fans will accept and what fans will not accept when it comes to King's Quest. In the '90s, as each game brought something new to the table, the array of directions to take the series seemed more open. But she has reviews now to rely on, retrospectives about KQ, KQ5, KQ6, what people love about those games, to help her craft a new one, if she did. There's sort of a consensus about why KQ is beloved, what qualities define KQ, etc. Whereas in the '90s I'd imagine such a consensus, while it existed, would've been harder to come to.

I think, if she'd kept up with games, she could make a great KQ. But it'd have to be under circumstances where she didn't feel pressure to pump out a mass market hit. Where she could feel comfortable in just making a KQ game--not pushing the envelope to the extreme to please shareholders.

KQ and Roberta aren't on top of the computer game world anymore, and with that comes less expectations, less hype, and thus, less pressure to make a masterpiece. She doesn't have to redefine the wheel now, as some expected her to do in the mid/late 90s. All she'd have to do is make a KQ game that feels like the old ones and is within certain boundaries, but brings new lands, dangers, experiences, etc to the table.