Women Presented Unfairly in Games Story?

[Zeruis]

I felt like Lilly was one of the smartest group members.

[zgamer]

Originally Posted by Red Panda

Katjaa is super passive, Carley can't figure out how to use batteries, Lilly is mental and stands by her crazy Dad until the end, and Clem verges on escapism.

Men have their faults, but do you think the the fairer sex is getting equal treatment by writers?

I actually like the female characters a lot because I feel overall they are deeper than most game characters. They are not just bimbos or cold killers or skanks. They all have shortcomings of course, but I wouldn't say anything overly sexist.

Katjaa is a mother and a wife. She is a grounding core for the group. You can't have everyone be tough or dominant because then there is no balance. Sometimes a gentle character is needed for levity and believability. It doesn't make her passive in a negative way I say.

I see the battery thing as a mistake by the designers to make a puzzle section. However, it also came across as just a lapse of judgment during stress. How many of us have failed doing simple things when distracted? Either way, the fact she does not have any other notable flaws and that they joke about the batteries thing in later episodes does not strike me as an intentional judgment of character. Plus she is probavly the most morally upright of the group. I honestly think Carley is one of the strongest female characters to come out of gaming in a while.

Lilly just saw the one person left in her life be crushed by a salt lock. Of course that will do a number on her mental health. And crazy dad? Yes Larry's a jerk, but his motivations were made quite clear even in the first episode that he acts to protect his daughter. I don't see her being weak for it. I see her being human. She attempted to take all of the responsibility herself but it was more than she could handle. It's not gender specific to break under pressure.

Clem's a little girl. She's not going to automatically process all the terribl stuff that happens in life and accept it. She's at an innocent age and sometimes kids handle problems with escapism. Adults do that all the time too, both men and women. What better way to avoid stress than to imagine your own little world? I see that as being a trait for being a child, not a girl. Plus, Duck is way more escapist than her.

Here's another important fact! How many of these women are being sexualized in the game? One of my biggest complaints Is games exploiting women with scantily clad clothes, large breasts with massive cleavage and softcore porn posing/camerawork. The only thing close here is Lilly's initial appearance and even then it never struck me as trying to exploit her body. Carley, Katjaa and Christa are always modestly dressed and Carley got even more so as they put more layers on her. They treated these women as characters instead of beauty objects. We care more for their character than how attractive they are. That's something few games do anymore and I totally applaud that!

I totally agree that there is plenty of sexism in gaming, but be careful what you label as sexist. We like to pinpoint stuff as such, but sometimes we have to step back and look at what we are saying. Some things are not gender specific so we need to not overreact when we assume one or the other when a game is not trying to be such. I've honestly felt TWD is a great example of fair women characters and I hope they keep it up.

[Pianaman]

You know, I don't get the whole Christa=Lilly thing. Christa's a bit surly, but that's because she and Omid are foils.

[bakajin]

I saw Carley's battery problems as the writer's idea to get us to "like" Carley and imagine her as a potential love interest for Lee to set us up for the fall in Ep 3. That said, I've on occasion had to flip batteries for my wife. Is it a stereotype or a reflection of society forcing gender roles (men must possess mechanical knowledge and are rewarded by women for possessing such)?

I didn't see enough evidence in my Carley playthrough that Lily thought anything of Lee other than a potential ally/leader. She spent most of the time shouting at him. It's possible, though.

There isn't much in the game that leads us to believe that Carley has any interest in Lee until she's about to get shot in the dome. I mean, I was pretty sure that's where they were going with her, but they were timid because of the race issue. In my playthrough at least, there's no real evidence to show either character had any feelings for her until that moment in Ep 3. If they really meant for us to feel her loss they bungled it.

Ultimately, Lily is a canon character and they had to get her to Woodbury on time. All else is in service of such.

[Pianaman]

The batteries thing was to show the difference between Carley and Doug.

Doug's a technological wizard, but he can't hold his own in a fight. Carley's great with a gun, but she can't figure out a tv remote.

[DreadMagus]

Yup, pure contrast.

Carley uses her brain in a fight.

Doug has brief moments of gut-reflex heroism, that may or may not get him killed.

[zgamer]

Originally Posted by bakajin

I saw Carley's battery problems as the writer's idea to get us to "like" Carley and imagine her as a potential love interest for Lee to set us up for the fall in Ep 3. That said, I've on occasion had to flip batteries for my wife. Is it a stereotype or a reflection of society forcing gender roles (men must possess mechanical knowledge and are rewarded by women for possessing such)?

I didn't see enough evidence in my Carley playthrough that Lily thought anything of Lee other than a potential ally/leader. She spent most of the time shouting at him. It's possible, though.

There isn't much in the game that leads us to believe that Carley has any interest in Lee until she's about to get shot in the dome. I mean, I was pretty sure that's where they were going with her, but they were timid because of the race issue. In my playthrough at least, there's no real evidence to show either character had any feelings for her until that moment in Ep 3. If they really meant for us to feel her loss they bungled it.

Ultimately, Lily is a canon character and they had to get her to Woodbury on time. All else is in service of such.

I wouldn't say they bungled it or that it wasn't present. It just wasn't outwardly manifested until 3. Episode 2 we see them have a chance to develop a companionship with each other through their conversations. It doesn't have to lead to romance, but it did imply there could be a deeper connection. The way they inflected, the way Carley phrases certain thoughts, etc. it isn't unreasonable to have seen a romance developing should you choose to pursue it.

Plus, it was only the start of a romance. That was only the intial stage of anything possibly happening. If she lived longer, I'm sure it could have developed further. Ending prematurely is shocking, but that's why I feel the moment is so powerful. You felt like you were attached to her if you tried to spark something. It was the smart thing to do to keep it TWD, if not the most popular.

[zgamer]

Originally Posted by Pianaman

You know, I don't get the whole Christa=Lilly thing. Christa's a bit surly, but that's because she and Omid are foils.

I think that's why I don't like them as much. They are such specific opposites of each other that it feels like they lack depth. Christa is just a judgmental surly character and Omid is a happy but bumbling scrapper. It feels like there is not a whole lot else to them yet.

[DreadMagus]

Christa is practical, we know that. And very survival oriented.

Omid seems passive, and more "group oriented." (look at how quickly he wanted to join up and how easy it was to get him to use the torch)

[Cyreen]

Originally Posted by DreadMagus

Christa is practical, we know that. And very survival oriented.

Add critical and aggressive to that description and that's kinda why she comes off Lilly 2.0 for me, but maybe she'll evolve in the limited amount of time she has.

All of the characters are somewhat flawed irregardless of gender.

[Vainamoinen]

Originally Posted by Red Panda

Katjaa is super passive, Carley can't figure out how to use batteries, Lilly is mental and stands by her crazy Dad until the end, and Clem verges on escapism.

Men have their faults, but do you think the the fairer sex is getting equal treatment by writers?

Absolutely!

Carley was the best shot in the game, Katjaa's doctor skills were exactly what completed the team. Lilly was the kind of leader figure the team needed (before her father was offed) AND probably the second best shot; and if it wasn't for her "two are a team" dogma, Christa would have been the next leader of the group immediately before Kenny or Lee could have said "I volunteer".

Take a look at the men for comparison. Kenny is a fisherman and he almost copes as badly with the situation as Lilly did, plus egomania! Lee's a convict teacher. Doug is an electronics ace in a world without electricity (granted, his handicraft was also very useful). Ben is a highschooler with an identity crisis who doesn't even know where to place his loyalty. Omid is completely helpless without his wife. Larry is a social misfit whom about everyone in here wanted to off even before Duck. And Duck... was even more kid than Clementine.

Clementine's story is about the loss of innocence - and Lee's attempts to preserve it as much as he can. But her traits are presented as those of a child. The fact that she's female is, as much as this hurts the tree house club, pretty irrelevant to what is happening.

Seriously, I'd say we're good with the women treatment.

[zgamer]

Originally Posted by Vainamoinen

Absolutely!

Carley was the best shot in the game, Katjaa's doctor skills were exactly what completed the team. Lilly was the kind of leader figure the team needed (before her father was offed) AND probably the second best shot; and if it wasn't for her "two are a team" dogma, Christa would have been the next leader of the group immediately before Kenny or Lee could have said "I volunteer".

Take a look at the men for comparison. Kenny is a fisherman and he almost copes as badly with the situation as Lilly did, plus egomania! Lee's a convict teacher. Doug is an electronics ace in a world without electricity (granted, his handicraft was also very useful). Ben is a highschooler with an identity crisis who doesn't even know where to place his loyalty. Omid is completely helpless without his wife. Larry is a social misfit whom about everyone in here wanted to off even before Duck. And Duck... was even more kid than Clementine.

Clementine's story is about the loss of innocence - and Lee's attempts to preserve it as much as he can. But her traits are presented as those of a child. The fact that she's female is, as much as this hurts the tree house club, pretty irrelevant to what is happening.

Seriously, I'd say we're good with the women treatment.

Totally agree. Putting it that way, the men are more tragically flawed then the women here. Most of the women at least have practical skills for survival as a profession or trained skill. A vet with medical skills for people, a reporter trained with pistols, a military employee with leadership skills, etc. I'd say it is fair.

[bakajin]

Originally Posted by Pianaman

The batteries thing was to show the difference between Carley and Doug.

Doug's a technological wizard, but he can't hold his own in a fight. Carley's great with a gun, but she can't figure out a tv remote.

Nah, they only had to show each character's proficiencies, they didn't need to show the other's shortcomings by contrast. Did they ever show Doug shooting at some target and missing?

[Samcharles]

Originally Posted by DreadMagus

Ben is a garden gnome

Ben is Guybrush Threepwood's son.

[The_Cheshire_Cat]

Originally Posted by Zeruis

I felt like Lilly was one of the smartest group members.

I felt like she was a man with breasts.

[Cyreen]

Originally Posted by The_Cheshire_Cat

I felt like she was a man with breasts.

Aww, did she scare you? Poor kitty.

[Sir Fruitcakes]

I don't agree with the OP, The females of the game have been given even more important roles in the story than the men! Not to mention lily/christa are very strong and able to take care of themselves! its just Lily lost what she loved so much and was practically blamed for everything other than that.

If it happened to me I would have snapped too, just I would have probably shot Kenny... not to mention clementine is ten times smarter than duck and more resourceful, and duck practically tried to ignore everything that's happened whereas every few minutes you enter a conversation with clementine regarding the entire mess and whats going on, as for katjaa? she was the groups physician who was a Vet, for godsake that is such a important part of the group/story!

The only thing here I could even say you can complain about is carley with her batteries, but then I could also argue that its only human to not know everything, and with her working in a radio station or whatever, I could argue that shes just a journalist/or everyone just did the technical bits of the radio for her, just because the majority of the surviving survivors so far are men does not mean they are represented poorly.

As for the katjaa suicide, There are mothers who would do the exact same thing in her shoes, atleast she had the strength/decency to do it out of sight of Ben/Clementine

[Xarne]

Carley is a crack shot; speaks her mind without fear of ...well death
Lily is leading the group way before we enter the picture; and has no problem asserting herself.
Christa is wearing the pants in the C/O relationship
Katjaa has medical training...and a son to protect? Ya, why isnt she up on the front lines with an AK? She's so passive...


Ya, these girls are totally getting the typical 'boo hoo, please protect me' treatment. How sexist!

/sarcasm

[Milosuperspesh]

i dunno, about unfair portrails.

imo most the characters are stereo types. found in most games, so this whole thread is pointless, there has to be a bitch(lilly/christa), black guy(lee) asians glenn/clem, katjaa meek/mouse but loyal, duck (idiot) omid (pedo/overly enthusiastic) kenny loyal but stupid and a coward, larry (pure asshole) ben young naive idiot, mark the politician works all sides and angles..carley ballsy reporter loks for the facts known to crumble under pressure/stress, doug a nerd/geek..

the game has to cover all the race barriers/personality and with a combo's for some.

if anything the characters are mostly fine, most games have male protagonists and thus all females are pale in comparison... in some cases a female lead does cause some male shrinkage..

as for clem and the tree house club, she's a kid put in an impossible situation, who may or may not be a 'spy' who is missing her family may or may not know what their fate is her being female means nothing in this thread as clem being a child losing her innocence 'mentally' would happen to any child in this scenario.. gender is as vain put it moot/invalid/irrelavant.

yet another 'rp' thread #sigh# i dunno if red panda is trying to get flame wars going or just being an old fashioned/last century based idiot....who seems to have a chip on their shoulder when it comes to sexism...

[Phantom Command]

Originally Posted by Milosuperspesh

i dunno, about unfair portrails.

imo most the characters are stereo types. found in most games, so this whole thread is pointless, there has to be a bitch(lilly/christa), black guy(lee) asians glenn/clem, katjaa meek/mouse but loyal, duck (idiot) omid (pedo/overly enthusiastic) kenny loyal but stupid and a coward, larry (pure asshole) ben young naive idiot, mark the politician works all sides and angles..carley ballsy reporter loks for the facts known to crumble under pressure/stress, doug a nerd/geek..

the game has to cover all the race barriers/personality and with a combo's for some.

if anything the characters are mostly fine, most games have male protagonists and thus all females are pale in comparison... in some cases a female lead does cause some male shrinkage..

as for clem and the tree house club, she's a kid put in an impossible situation, who may or may not be a 'spy' who is missing her family may or may not know what their fate is her being female means nothing in this thread as clem being a child losing her innocence 'mentally' would happen to any child in this scenario.. gender is as vain put it moot/invalid/irrelavant.

"GOD HAS SPOKEN" Kneel in awe or not we still live in a semi free country, I for one am kneeling