Anybody Mad at Clem?

[Red Panda]

Originally Posted by cormoran

There were four adults and one teenager in that house, none of them bothered to watch her in the slightest. Lee himself sat his lazy arse down and went to sleep. As adults they hold more responsibility to allowing her to be kidnapped than she did. They knew the situation and chose to not bother keeping an eye on her anyways.

In the end though, the only real person to blame, the one you should be angry at, the one Lee seemed angry at, is the kidnapper.

Seriously, what is it with some of the people here constantly blaming and getting angry at the victims in this game?

I can agree with you on this. Ultimately, the kidnapper is to blame. It still doesn't mean she didn't do something incredibly stupid and defiant that had grave consequences.

It's like the boy that cried wolf. You can blame the wolf at the end of the day, and it deserves all the blame, but you'd be missing the moral of the story.

[cormoran]

Originally Posted by Red Panda

I can agree with you on this. Ultimately, the kidnapper is to blame. It still doesn't mean she didn't do something incredibly stupid and defiant that had grave consequences.

It's like the buy that cried wolf. You can blame the wolf at the end of the day, and it deserves all the blame, but you'd be missing the moral of the story.

That moral being: You should never tell the same lie twice.

[YamiRaziel]

Actually nobody owes Clem anything. Nobody has to look out for her. Yeah, it's the right thing to do if they do it, but they are not obliged to.
I can see your point Red Panda, and I agree with it. It appears all our training were for nothing because she just does whatever she pleases. She did that the entire season. She's stubborn and yeah I know she's a kid, but as Chuck said, she has to grow up or she'll die. I hope Lee's death sticks with her through her entire life. She needs to know that her stupidity cost him his life and maybe that will be the reason why she won't be the next one to die.
It is really a shame that sometimes only a tragic event can allow us to see the truth that has been in front of our eyes all along. That's life, unfortunately.
If Clem wants to live, I hope she will learn her lesson now.

[WowMutt]

I think it realistic that Lee could be mad or upset with Clem for leaving the house, which in turn leads to him getting bitten.

Clem has had a bad habit of not listening when told to stay, climbing the ladder to follow Lee up to the Fuel truck, crawling through the doggie door, going outside to play on her own (even tough she discovered the boat) still, she's put herself and others at risk.

Now I realize, when talking to Lee inside the house, Lee upset her saying they really wont have time to look for her parents, that upset Clem, so after Lee fell asleep, Clem took the walkie and went searching on her own. Lee goes looking for her and as a result get's bitten.

Think about iif it were Ben's fault, or Kenny's that Lee gets bitten.. We would all be cussing them, swearing to kill them.. But because it's Clem, we accept Lee's been bitten, not really mad, just concerned for Clem..

I'm guessing in EP5, Lee will find and save Clem, but since Lee is bitten, will proably be some big sacrifice scene. I think Clem's dad is dead, but maybe they find her mother..

They are surrounded by walkers, Lee takes Clem and hands her up to her mother as Lee endures multiple bites.. Clem has a gun and shoots Lee in the end to put him down!

Thats how I see it.. Sure Lee 'could' be mad at Clem.. But he isnt.. He's too concerned for her safety and willing to risk/sacrifice himself for her!

[Sir Fruitcakes]

Panda, duck could have died so fast for a multitude of reasons, childrens immune systems are weaker than adults, also, which could have affected it. (Doubt telltale was thinking that, but its true.)

[Zombies are Awesome!]

No she is just a kid, Kids do stupid things. I am going to kill that walkie-talkie guy though! Before my Lee turns into a flesh eating walker!

[Donut Funn]

It just really bums me out that the "Clem is leading you to your death" guy was kinda right... if Clem hadn't gotten taken and dropped the walkie talkie there, we wouldn't have gotten bitten... ;___;

[WowMutt]

I am working today but still thinking about all this and realize the more I think about Clem running off leading to Lee getting bitten, the more I want Clem to realize what she's done.

Mad at her? No, not really, but..

If possible I would make sure Lee explains to her the cost of her actions.

Lee: (as he's about to die/turn) Clemmypoo, I want you to take this as my final lesson to you! This world is now all about survival and you have to do anything you can to live.. But realize that you will need others to help you survive and just walking off like that can have dire consequences (shows her the bite).

Ive been honest with you from the start, taught you how to defend yourself and tried to explain the way of this new terrible world. You will have to be responsible for yourself and the others. Think before you act because what you do now, may affect everyone later.

Like Ben, he meant well, but his actions cost the lives of others.
You went to find your parents, I understand that, but because you took off and I had to search for you, has cost My life.

Take this as a lesson, it could save your life in the future!

Yes! Guilt trip she'll never forget, but will save her in the future!

[oraclekun]

Why is everyone reckoning she left the house willingly? She could have gone to the backyard and been taken while Lee's asleep. The walkie talkie voice could have told her: "I have your parents and I'm going to kill them if you don't do exactly as I say". Vernon could have taken her and then been taken himself. There are a lot of explanations and we have not been given any so far.

You know what they say about reckoning.

[BlankCanvasDJ]

Post hoc, ergo propter hoc.

Here's the thing. Zombies are literally around every corner. Is it really Clem's fault just because she's the reason he went outside that time? It could have happened the next day when they took the boat out. It could have happened when he went out to take a leak. Or any of the other many, many times that Lee stepped out of that house.

I was once driving on the highway to visit my sister for her birthday and I got into a wreck that left me in a wheelchair for months. But I don't blame my sister for being the reason I was on the highway. I blame the person who hit me with a car. Just because Clem is the reason Lee went outside, doesn't mean she's the reason he got bit.

Originally Posted by oraclekun

You know what they say about reckoning.

It...makes a wreck...out of...I got nuthin'.

[WowMutt]

Originally Posted by BlankCanvasDJ

Post hoc, ergo propter hoc.

Here's the thing. Zombies are literally around every corner. Is it really Clem's fault just because she's the reason he went outside that time? It could have happened the next day when they took the boat out. It could have happened when he went out to take a leak. Or any of the other many, many times that Lee stepped out of that house.

I was once driving on the highway to visit my sister for her birthday and I got into a wreck that left me in a wheelchair for months. But I don't blame my sister for being the reason I was on the highway. I blame the person who hit me with a car. Just because Clem is the reason Lee went outside, doesn't mean she's the reason he got bit.



It...makes a wreck...out of...I got nuthin'.

Valid point, but as a last lesson from Lee to Clem, something as harsh as that may be the life-lesson she remembers in the future so she can survive!

[BlankCanvasDJ]

Originally Posted by WowMutt

Valid point, but as a last lesson from Lee to Clem, something as harsh as that may be the life-lesson she remembers in the future so she can survive!

Oh absolutely, I'm not saying she won't feel guilty. That sort of survivor's guilt happens whether it makes rational sense or not. I'm just saying that Lee should (and does, by the look of it) know better than to blame her for it.

And so should we.

[chaz99]

It certainly makes Lee look like an idiot, doesn't it?

The "We're going to look out for each other" and "We're a team, you know?" statements he made in a previous episode were a pipe dream.

I'm not mad at Clem, just really, really, really disappointed.

[Red Panda]

Originally Posted by BlankCanvasDJ

Post hoc, ergo propter hoc.

Here's the thing. Zombies are literally around every corner. Is it really Clem's fault just because she's the reason he went outside that time? It could have happened the next day when they took the boat out. It could have happened when he went out to take a leak. Or any of the other many, many times that Lee stepped out of that house.

I was once driving on the highway to visit my sister for her birthday and I got into a wreck that left me in a wheelchair for months. But I don't blame my sister for being the reason I was on the highway. I blame the person who hit me with a car. Just because Clem is the reason Lee went outside, doesn't mean she's the reason he got bit.

Wow. Philosophy was my major in college if you want to go there. Look, it could have happened differently but it didn't. Let's no deviate from that fact.

If someone was dying of terminal cancer and could go anytime, and then some stranger shot them in head, would you think they should be punished? By your logic, they could have died any day, so how can they be held morally responsible? Of course you can b/c there's a difference between what could have happened and what did happen.

And there is a huge difference in asking someone to drive to you and having someone walk around a city filled with deadly monsters. Seriously.

[BlankCanvasDJ]

Originally Posted by Red Panda

If someone was dying of terminal cancer and could go anytime, and then some stranger shot them in head, would you think they should be punished? By your logic, they could have died any day, so how can they be held morally responsible? Of course you can b/c there's a difference between what could have happened and what did happen.

Nice try, but that's actually the opposite of my logic. Obviously they should be punished because that is exactly what I'm talking about - direct causation. Clementine is not directly responsible for Lee getting bitten. Kenny is the one who insisted they go to Savannah, is it his fault? Without him, Lee would never have been in that alley either. Just because someone caused something that is part of a sequence of events does not make them responsible for everything else that happens in that sequence of events.

[Deventh]

When i hear her voice i forgive her somehow O___o

[Red Panda]

Originally Posted by BlankCanvasDJ

Nice try, but that's actually the opposite of my logic. Obviously they should be punished because that is exactly what I'm talking about - direct causation. Clementine is not directly responsible for Lee getting bitten. Kenny is the one who insisted they go to Savannah, is it his fault? Without him, Lee would never have been in that alley either. Just because someone caused something that is part of a sequence of events does not make them responsible for everything else that happens in that sequence of events.

Clem didn't bite him but she put in harms way. With Kenny, there was a plan of escaping on a boat. There was risk, but necessary. With Clem, it was a unnecessary and needless risk. She was disobeyed and trying to save her was bitten. It is simple negligence.

[Red Panda]

Originally Posted by Sir Fruitcakes

Panda, duck could have died so fast for a multitude of reasons, childrens immune systems are weaker than adults, also, which could have affected it. (Doubt telltale was thinking that, but its true.)

OKay, after being bit,what is the longest you've know someone to function before becoming to sick? What is the longest you've known to survive? Give me a best case scenario based on some evidence. Point to a character in a comic or TV show.

[BlankCanvasDJ]

Originally Posted by Red Panda

Clem didn't bite him but she put in harms way. With Kenny, there was a plan of escaping on a boat. There was risk, but necessary. With Clem, it was a unnecessary and needless risk. She was disobeyed and trying to save her was bitten. It is simple negligence.

Everywhere is harms way. And as far as we know, all Clementine did was walk into the back yard. That's hardly reckless endangerment.

[LadyJ]

Originally Posted by YamiRaziel

Actually nobody owes Clem anything. Nobody has to look out for her. Yeah, it's the right thing to do if they do it, but they are not obliged to.
I can see your point Red Panda, and I agree with it. It appears all our training were for nothing because she just does whatever she pleases. She did that the entire season. She's stubborn and yeah I know she's a kid, but as Chuck said, she has to grow up or she'll die. I hope Lee's death sticks with her through her entire life. She needs to know that her stupidity cost him his life and maybe that will be the reason why she won't be the next one to die.
It is really a shame that sometimes only a tragic event can allow us to see the truth that has been in front of our eyes all along. That's life, unfortunately.
If Clem wants to live, I hope she will learn her lesson now.

Can't believe it but I agree with Yami It was a dumbass thing for her to have done and I AM pissed off about it. Mostly it was up to Telltale to make her disregard everything Lee said even though he's forced by the game to be taking care of her...that's just....sick. I think there's a definite difference between asking a parent to care for their child and a total stranger....cause at the end of the day that's exactly what she was a complete stranger. Nobody owed her anything. Echoed.

Originally Posted by chaz99

It certainly makes Lee look like an idiot, doesn't it?

The "We're going to look out for each other" and "We're a team, you know?" statements he made in a previous episode were a pipe dream.

I'm not mad at Clem, just really, really, really disappointed.

Yep. They put eggs all over Lee's face with that.

Originally Posted by Deventh

When i hear her voice i forgive her somehow O___o

You are delusional then.