Am I the only person who wouldn't "keep moving"? (Some spoilers)

[aguyuno]

I'm not gonna bother "tagging" spoilers in here, because I'll likely end up accidentally leaving one in there and people will get mad. Just know that there ARE some.

The thing that's always bugged me about the walking dead series, and really most zombie apocalypse things, is people find a group of people... but then never sit still with it. Why? There's no reason to keep moving. Find a town, buckle down and then clear that shit out.

In the comics, Rick tries that at one point with a prison. It ends badly for reasons I won't go into, but he still tries - It was a good idea. But clearly this isn't the only route to go by. Look at Crawford - They survived for AGES until one crazy pregnant woman went on a shooting spree through the town. And really, as long as you don't try to implement any idiotic "no children, or sick, etc" rules, thereby ensuring that your people only survive one generation, you shouldn't have this problem.

The dead have huge numbers, but beyond that they're slow and stupid. Get your group together with some bladed weapons, clear out a small patch of town (preferably somewhere with a building you can fortify that is big enough to house a lot of people, like a hospital [bonus if it still has beds and/or medicine]), and then push outwards from there. Will the dead ultimately try to push you out? Yes. But that's why you keep fighting.

I don't understand the concept of constantly moving from one place to the next. Why? The only thing that could EVER accomplish is finding new people, and let's be honest - that's not always a good thing. No, the best plan of attack in a situation like this is to REBUILD. If you die trying? Fine. At least you died taking a bunch of zombies with you. But truly, I don't think you will. If your group has at least, let's say 5 or more people with you, you should be fine for at least a while. And once you get yourself set in, people WILL find _you_. And if they don't? Send out scouts, find some. Place flyers around the place, who cares?

Anyway. That's just my rant here. Thoughts, anyone?

[DreadMagus]

My thoughts?

I think you shouldn't worry about posting spoilers in a spoiler forum.

That said, Rebuilding should be the priority... but one person, or even a handful, can't get it done.

Anything less than a few hundred and you're just delaying the inevitable.

[Demonseed]

I would assume that most moving is because supplies run out and them being in the middle or near a large city? I wouldn't stay in a city either longer than I had to. The ideal place is one to get clean water and a good food supply, I think those two things drive survivors on to other areas.

Medicine will run out but food and water are key to living, that would be my reason they keep moving.

[aguyuno]

Originally Posted by DreadMagus

My thoughts?

I think you shouldn't worry about posting spoilers in a spoiler forum.

That said, Rebuilding should be the priority... but one person, or even a handful, can't get it done.

Anything less than a few hundred and you're just delaying the inevitable.

Agreed. But you likely aren't gonna START with a "few hundred". As much as I've always been confused as to why it is you seem to only ever see "small" groups in zombie apocalypses (were really THAT many people stupid enough to get eaten by slow moving corpses?!), going by that example you'll have to start small. But that's why I'm saying YOU have to start small. And then let people come to you.

I agree though, it'd be hard. That's a given. But hell, I'd prefer it over just moving everywhere pretending that this life solves anything.

[DreadMagus]

Also true.

Unless you have a self sustaining farm (or the equivalent) you scavenge.... and resources (of any kind) are not infinite.

[aguyuno]

Originally Posted by Demonseed

I would assume that most moving is because supplies run out and them being in the middle or near a large city? I wouldn't stay in a city either longer than I had to. The ideal place is one to get clean water and a good food supply, I think those two things drive survivors on to other areas.

Medicine will run out but food and water are key to living, that would be my reason they keep moving.

Find a park and start planting things. I'm sure a nearby grocery would have some seeds of some sort if you want to clear it out, and I doubt people would take that because why would they? They're all going for small time fixes.

[8Bit_System]

Originally Posted by aguyuno

... Look at Crawford - They survived for AGES until one crazy pregnant woman went on a shooting spree through the town. And really, as long as you don't try to implement any idiotic "no children, or sick, etc" rules, thereby ensuring that your people only survive one generation, you shouldn't have this problem. ...

The largest number of AGES I saw was 82ob, that's not even three month. Might have missed something though.

[Snake Liquid]

I kind of agree, but it's extraordinarily difficult.

Also you are wrong about Crawford. It didn't survive for "AGES" it survived barely a couple of months. Remember by Episode 4, we are still maybe only three months into the outbreak. That isn't very long.

The problem is FINDING that place that is safe. That is defendable. That's been the struggle all along in The Walking Dead. Rick's finally found a place in the comic right now, but even it isn't totally safe and it looks like it might all be crumbling.

The problem isn't the walkers. It gets to a point that you can handle them. They are a manageable threat. It's the people. In The Walking Dead universe, the tagline for Season 3 of AMC's TWD rings so very true. "Fight the dead. Fear the living."

That's what it boils down to. People are the greatest threat you will ever face in a zombie outbreak. Even if you find that safe haven, it's the PEOPLE that destroy it. You have your group, and you find a place that is somewhat safe where you are supplied and you have people to defend it. The problem is there is always a group bigger, stronger, better equipped and more ruthless out there that comes along and takes it.

!!!!SPOILERS FOR TWD GAME AND COMIC TO FOLLOW!!!!

Rick finds the prison in TWD. It's such a safe haven for everyone. They look at it as their home. They are able to deal with the walkers. It isn't until their encounter with Woodbury and the Governor that everything comes crashing down. They don't lose the prison because of walkers. They lose it because another group wanted to kill them and take what they had.

Now in the comic, we have Rick and co. at the Alexandria safe zone in Washington D.C. Since they've been there, they've been attacked a few different times, but now with Negan and his "Saviors" breathing down their necks, it seems like things are going to be destroyed again. We've seen Alexandria completely, and seemingly hopelessly over run with walkers, but they managed. They fought and killed them, and rebuilt the place. It wasn't until the run in with the Saviors that the place is truly threatened.

Now look at the game. The same thing has happened.

Lee and his group meet the Saint Johns, who offer to let them stay at their farm. They go, and look what happens. I'll spare the details, since you probably already know. It isn't the walkers that destroy the place. It's the people.

The road side motel does not seem like a safe place to stay, but they are there for a few months and obviously walkers aren't a big threat to them there. It isn't until the bandits come and attack that they are forced to leave.

In THEORY, finding a safe place to hunker down and build a life is a great idea. FINDING that place, and being able to defend it from every threat, which is beyond just walkers, is what is nearly impossible to do.

[aguyuno]

Originally Posted by 8Bit_System

The largest number of AGES I saw was 82ob, that's not even three month. Might have missed something though.

Fine, fine. Either way, they would've been fine. It was people that effed them in the end - Not the dead. Well, not immediately the dead.

[8Bit_System]

That is very true!

They should have see it coming, though.

[aguyuno]

Snake - I'm not fully caught up in the comics yet so I didn't read your whole post, but I got the jist of it. And in the end, I do agree with you. Totally. But I'd still TRY. It's the driving around constantly and _not_ doing that I don't get.

[DreadMagus]

Originally Posted by aguyuno

Agreed. But you likely aren't gonna START with a "few hundred". As much as I've always been confused as to why it is you seem to only ever see "small" groups in zombie apocalypses (were really THAT many people stupid enough to get eaten by slow moving corpses?!), going by that example you'll have to start small. But that's why I'm saying YOU have to start small. And then let people come to you.

I agree though, it'd be hard. That's a given. But hell, I'd prefer it over just moving everywhere pretending that this life solves anything.

You missing a point though, what you propose requires a few things.. a fantastic leader, a workable plan, resources, knowledge and a stable environment.... the bodies are just needed to make it happen.

Without all of those things, rebuilding isn't possible.

You need a leader who can keep people in line, focused and maintain morale.

You need a plan that sounds more than a pipedream in the face of the "end of the world"

It takes resources, even scavenged, to build with..... fuel, food, building materials, guns, ammo, clothing.

Knowledge is essential. You need knowledge of building, maintaining modern equipment (if you can keep it running) growing food, medicine, etc, etc.

Finally, you need a stable environment.... that means a zombie free area... that's also defensible against human enemies as well.

Also, about your point about "people stupid enough to get eaten by slow moving corpses"... keep in mind that anyone who dies becomes a walker.... and the higher the population density... the more there will be.

More walkers, in smaller cramped areas (like a city) makes for a VERY hostile environment.

[Snake Liquid]

Originally Posted by aguyuno

Snake - I'm not fully caught up in the comics yet so I didn't read your whole post, but I got the jist of it. And in the end, I do agree with you. Totally. But I'd still TRY. It's the driving around constantly and _not_ doing that I don't get.

But who has been doing that? In the Walking Dead that is never the case.

They are ALWAYS trying to find some place. The characters in the game haven't been just driving aimlessly with no cause. They have a plan. An awful plan, but they have a goal to where they are going.

In the comic, Rick has always made it a priority to find some place where his family is safe. A place where they can be safe and start to build some semblance of a life together.

[aguyuno]

Originally Posted by Snake Liquid

But who has been doing that? In the Walking Dead that is never the case.

They are ALWAYS trying to find some place. The characters in the game haven't been just driving aimlessly with no cause. They have a plan. An awful plan, but they have a goal to where they are going.

In the comic, Rick has always made it a priority to find some place where his family is safe. A place where they can be safe and start to build some semblance of a life together.

I don't agree with that necessarily@Rick. If that were true, he'd have taken the farm by force and not just walked out because Herschel got butt hurt. I think he's generally done the "right thing" for his family but ultimately, it seems they do a lot more travelling than they should.

And an awful plan is right. "Oh we'll just get on a boat". Yeah guys good idea. I'm sure this shit definitely isn't EVERYWHERE, hence the mass rescue effort. Right?

[Snake Liquid]

Originally Posted by aguyuno

And an awful plan is right. "Oh we'll just get on a boat". Yeah guys good idea. I'm sure this shit definitely isn't EVERYWHERE, hence the mass rescue effort. Right?

Exactly. Plus the fact that they don't have any ideas of what they are doing after they get out on the water. Where are they going? Are they just going to sail out and live on the ocean? Impossible. Are they going to just sail and try and find an island? Probably not. Are they going to just ride up the coast and look at the shore line and if they see walkers or destruction keep on moving? Well fuel is certainly a limited resource.

I just can't see the validity in this plan that Kenny is so adamant about. They have no goal other than "finding a boat and getting out on the water." After that... what? Success? Good job, there are no more threats? The walker threat and having no supplies just goes away?

[aguyuno]

Originally Posted by Snake Liquid

Exactly. Plus the fact that they don't have any ideas of what they are doing after they get out on the water. Where are they going? Are they just going to sail out and live on the ocean? Impossible. Are they going to just sail and try and find an island? Probably not. Are they going to just ride up the coast and look at the shore line and if they see walkers or destruction keep on moving? Well fuel is certainly a limited resource.

I just can't see the validity in this plan that Kenny is so adamant about. They have no goal other than "finding a boat and getting out on the water." After that... what? Success? Good job, there are no more threats? The walker threat and having no supplies just goes away?

Yeah pretty much. And seriously, I'm sorry but a guy loses his wife and kid like that in rapid succession, and the first thing I'm NOT doing? Taking any of his plans seriously. I know that sounds awful, but the dude is NOT gonna be thinking right after that, and this hilarious ass plan is proof positive of that. Yes he sort of always had the plan but he wasn't as tunnel visioned before. Now it honestly sounds like his suicide plan to me.

[Demonseed]

Originally Posted by aguyuno

Find a park and start planting things. I'm sure a nearby grocery would have some seeds of some sort if you want to clear it out, and I doubt people would take that because why would they? They're all going for small time fixes.

I would disagree here, how many parks are safe enough to plant crops in and be sustainable with water? What region of the world are we in? Does it rain, is it mostly dry? I see alot of issues with middle city life, yes I'd take what seeds were left and fruits and veggies in hopes of planting new crops, but in a city?? Not on your life or mine.

Now if we are talking about moving to the outskirts of a city yes, I'd fortify a place and plant...again the climate and region would dictate where I settle down for numerous reasons. You would not find me in a city after I made it out.

[8Bit_System]

Originally Posted by Demonseed

I would disagree here, how many parks are safe enough to plant crops in and be sustainable with water? What region of the world are we in? Does it rain, is it mostly dry? I see alot of issues with middle city life, yes I'd take what seeds were left and fruits and veggies in hopes of planting new crops, but in a city?? Not on your life or mine.

Now if we are talking about moving to the outskirts of a city yes, I'd fortify a place and plant...again the climate and region would dictate where I settle down for numerous reasons. You would not find me in a city after I made it out.

I actually live in Hamburg(Germany), which is the greenest city in europe, considering squaremeters per citizen(Barcelona wins by plain squaremeters). It would be easy to plant stuff here, even though we have around 2.000.000 people around... but be honest... who knows how to do it? I have been working as a chef for almost 20 years now - and honestly... I don't have a clue!

[skepticalguy90]

I think you have to almost wait them out. Eventually you want to settle down and start a subsistence type farming and just survive. However, places that are conducive to farming crops are not going to be conducive to safety. It'd be hard to keep the whole property secure. I think you'd have to wait at least a year for the walkers to start rotting and the seasons to take their toll before you start settling down.

[rachellouise85]

As you've probably already noticed, the common thing between the prison, the motel, the crawford etc. Is it is not the dead that are the problem. More often than not in TWD, it is the living that cause greater problems, and pose a bigger threat than the dead.