Quite a few holes in this episode

[aguyuno]

A couple spoilers below, yada yada, don't be in the damn spoiler section and then bitch at me that you read some.

1) Their unlimited ammo is really starting to bug me. This came to a head when you gave Clementine the colt you took from Chuck's body, that he (Lee) SAYS is out of ammo if you try to use it on the grate at one point, but apparently since then he managed to find a bunch of shots for a revolver? Not to mention the fact that it is, in fact, a REVOLVER. The girl's 8 years old - The recoil on a gun that size could EASILY dislocate her shoulder. But the ammo thing is more important - It's really hard to take 'Oh we're so hungry' seriously when at the same time they go 'GOOD THING WE FOUND AN UNLIMITED SUPPLY OF PISTOL/SHOTGUN/RIFLE/REVOLVER AMMO EARLIER AND OFF SCREEN'. ((This one was answered. Apparently it was Vernon's revolver. I totally forgot about it. Still doesn't explain her lack of injury though))

2) How did the zombie Clem kills if you leave her behind get in ANYway? You saw that place - it was barricaded to hell! And when they come in, it's not like any boards are missing. So what the hell? Did it just teleport in?

3) The barricades in that house themselves. They spend that huge time OMG HOW DO WE GET IN, THE ONLY WAY IS THIS DEAD DOG... Then the FIRST thing you can see upon entering? A window in the kitchen, along the same wall as the backdoor, that's wider than the doggy door and complete free of any barricades. Nice.

4) As another example of wasting so much time. They spend forever trying to bust into the armory of the Catholic school. Then what's the first thing they find? "Oh look, this door just opens to the hallway, and doesn't even seem to be locked". Yeah I'm sure Crawford DEFINITELY would've allowed that kind of liability. ((So, I'm being told this was a downstairs hall. Still seems weird Crawford would allow that loophole though))

5) Seriously, how the hell did Lee get back from visiting the motor pool the second time? The first time they had to go all parkour and leave through the roof. The second time, when he leaves, he sees a zombie blocking the _only way out_, since going through that way is the only option now - every other way is a) The motor pool filled with zombies (leading to a jump we KNOW he can't make without Molly) or b) A barbed wire fence.

6) Vernon. I got listed as being honest with him, and I only threatened him to get him to drop the gun - after that I apologised and was asking nicely to get him to come with me. And yet he still went YOU'RE A DICK LOOK HOW YOU MADE ME COME. I'm just sitting there like "...You mean asking you?"

Any I missed?

Edit: Fixed some typos and the part where I accidentally called the school a church.

[Yertos]

Originally Posted by aguyuno

A couple spoilers below, yada yada, don't be in the damn spoiler section and then bitch at me that you read some.

1) Their unlimited ammo is really starting to bug me. This came to a head when you gave Clementine the colt you took from Chuck's body, that he (Lee) SAYS is out of ammo if you try to use it on the grate at one point, but apparently since then he managed to find a bunch of shots for a revolver? Not to mention the fact that it is, in fact, a REVOLVER. The girl's 8 years old - The recoil on a gun that size could EASILY dislocate her shoulder. But the ammo thing is more important - It's really hard to take 'Oh we're so hungry' seriously when at the same time they go 'GOOD THING WE FOUND AN UNLIMITED SUPPLY OF PISTOL/SHOTGUN/RIFLE/REVOLVER AMMO EARLIER AND OFF SCREEN'.

2) How did the zombie Clem kills if you leave her behind get in ANYway? You saw that place - it was barricaded to hell! And when they come in, it's not like any boards are missing. So what the hell? Did it just teleport in?

3) The barricades in that house themselves. They spend that huge time OMG HOW DO WE GET IN, THE ONLY WAY IS THIS DEAD DOG... Then the FIRST thing you can see upon entering? A window in the kitchen, along the same wall as the backdoor, that's wider than the doggy door and complete free of any barricades. Nice.

4) As another example of wasting so much time. They spend forever trying to bust into the armory of the Catholic school. Then what's the first thing they find? "Oh look, this door just opens to the hallway, and doesn't even seem to be locked". Yeah I'm sure Crawford DEFINITELY would've allowed that kind of liability.

5) Seriously, how the hell did Lee get back from visiting the motor pool the second time? The first time they had to go all parkour and leave through the roof. The second time, when he leaves, he sees a zombie blocking the _only way out_, since going through that way is the only option now - every other way is a) The motor pool filled with zombies (leading to a jump we KNOW he can't make without Molly) or b) A barbed wire fence.

6) Vernon. I got listed as being honest with him, and I only threatened him to get him to drop the gun - after that I apologised and was asking nicely to get him to come with me. And yet he still went YOU'RE A DICK LOOK HOW YOU MADE ME COME. I'm just sitting there like "...You mean asking you?"

Any I missed?

Edit: Fixed some typos and the part where I accidentally called the school a church.

1. Lee had to revolvers, Chuck's empty on, and Vernon's. He gave her Vernon's. Edit: Plus that's just the way games work sometimes to keep it going, hell it's a lot more forgiving for an unlimited shotgun in a game then Hershel's at the end of season 2 on the show :P, there's a video on youtube and it counts like 20 some shots before he stops to reload.

2. Maybe Clem went to the backyard and left the door open? I dunno, not so much a plot hole in my opinion, just something over looked. Wouldn't be the first time.

3. Was it on the outside of the backyard? If so they wouldn't want to risk going into the streets. If not then I'll give ya that one.

4. The door they opened with the walkers could have been on of the many rooms that were walker filled. Remember when you walk past a door with an X on it in blood and you hear moaning? That could have been anyone of them as there are several doors like that.

5. I'll give ya that one too, thats the first thing I thought of when Lee jumped over the gate, is how the hell he plans to get back haha.

6. Did you lie and tell him Clem was your daughter? I was honest and nice to him and only told that little white lie because my Lee does consider Clem his daughter now and didn't think it would be a big deal, but it was to Vernon when he found out.

[Rock114]

Video Game logic.

[aguyuno]

Originally Posted by Yertos

1. Lee had to revolvers, Chuck's empty on, and Vernon's. He gave her Vernon's. Edit: Plus that's just the way games work sometimes to keep it going, hell it's a lot more forgiving for an unlimited shotgun in a game then Hershel's at the end of season 2 on the show :P, there's a video on youtube and it counts like 20 some shots before he stops to reload.

2. Maybe Clem went to the backyard and left the door open? I dunno, not so much a plot hole in my opinion, just something over looked. Wouldn't be the first time.

3. Was it on the outside of the backyard? If so they wouldn't want to risk going into the streets. If not then I'll give ya that one.

4. The door they opened with the walkers could have been on of the many rooms that were walker filled. Remember when you walk past a door with an X on it in blood and you hear moaning? That could have been anyone of them as there are several doors like that.

5. I'll give ya that one too, thats the first thing I thought of when Lee jumped over the gate, is how the hell he plans to get back haha.

6. Did you lie and tell him Clem was your daughter? I was honest and nice to him and only told that little white lie because my Lee does consider Clem his daughter now and didn't think it would be a big deal, but it was to Vernon when he found out.

1) Oh. Fuck. Forgot about Vernon's gun. Good call. Thanks.

2) It's possible, I suppose, but I doubt it. She's a kid but she's not Ben - she tends to think things through.

3) It was to the "left" of the door (if you're standing outside). That whole back wall was in the back yard as I recall it, which means yeah it should've been into the backyard.

4) Oh I see, more than one hall? I guess I can see that but most schools only have one hall per floor.

5) Right? Rofl.

6) Nope. I didn't lie past the first part. I told him to drop the fucking gun and then Lee automatically is like "my friend asked you a question" with the revolver. But past that, I was like look I'm sorry, this world is just nuts now and he was like FUCK YOU HO.

[Yertos]

Originally Posted by aguyuno

1) Oh. Fuck. Forgot about Vernon's gun. Good call. Thanks.

2) It's possible, I suppose, but I doubt it. She's a kid but she's not Ben - she tends to think things through.

3) It was to the "left" of the door (if you're standing outside). That whole back wall was in the back yard as I recall it, which means yeah it should've been into the backyard.

4) Oh I see, more than one hall? I guess I can see that but most schools only have one hall per floor.

5) Right? Rofl.

6) Nope. I didn't lie past the first part. I told him to drop the fucking gun and then Lee automatically is like "my friend asked you a question" with the revolver. But past that, I was like look I'm sorry, this world is just nuts now and he was like FUCK YOU HO.

6) Then there you go hah, you threatened him, that's why he's upset with you. Do get the honest stat you need to calm him down telling him your not crawford and stuff, then gently take the gun. Later he'll ask why you need help getting back and if you say to get to Clem, make sure to tell the truth that she's not your daughter. Doing those choices will have have him like you and will give you the honest stat instead of the Lie or Threaten stat.

[zgamer]

Originally Posted by aguyuno

A couple spoilers below, yada yada, don't be in the damn spoiler section and then bitch at me that you read some.

1) Their unlimited ammo is really starting to bug me. This came to a head when you gave Clementine the colt you took from Chuck's body, that he (Lee) SAYS is out of ammo if you try to use it on the grate at one point, but apparently since then he managed to find a bunch of shots for a revolver? Not to mention the fact that it is, in fact, a REVOLVER. The girl's 8 years old - The recoil on a gun that size could EASILY dislocate her shoulder. But the ammo thing is more important - It's really hard to take 'Oh we're so hungry' seriously when at the same time they go 'GOOD THING WE FOUND AN UNLIMITED SUPPLY OF PISTOL/SHOTGUN/RIFLE/REVOLVER AMMO EARLIER AND OFF SCREEN'.

2) How did the zombie Clem kills if you leave her behind get in ANYway? You saw that place - it was barricaded to hell! And when they come in, it's not like any boards are missing. So what the hell? Did it just teleport in?

3) The barricades in that house themselves. They spend that huge time OMG HOW DO WE GET IN, THE ONLY WAY IS THIS DEAD DOG... Then the FIRST thing you can see upon entering? A window in the kitchen, along the same wall as the backdoor, that's wider than the doggy door and complete free of any barricades. Nice.

4) As another example of wasting so much time. They spend forever trying to bust into the armory of the Catholic school. Then what's the first thing they find? "Oh look, this door just opens to the hallway, and doesn't even seem to be locked". Yeah I'm sure Crawford DEFINITELY would've allowed that kind of liability.

5) Seriously, how the hell did Lee get back from visiting the motor pool the second time? The first time they had to go all parkour and leave through the roof. The second time, when he leaves, he sees a zombie blocking the _only way out_, since going through that way is the only option now - every other way is a) The motor pool filled with zombies (leading to a jump we KNOW he can't make without Molly) or b) A barbed wire fence.

6) Vernon. I got listed as being honest with him, and I only threatened him to get him to drop the gun - after that I apologised and was asking nicely to get him to come with me. And yet he still went YOU'RE A DICK LOOK HOW YOU MADE ME COME. I'm just sitting there like "...You mean asking you?"

Any I missed?

Edit: Fixed some typos and the part where I accidentally called the school a church.

Hm...i dont think all of those are plot holes. Let me first address yours first, either for disagreeing or agreeing:

1) he never shot the revolver. He always used the same pistol he had from the beginning. He just picketed the revolver. Notice that if you shoot the zombies after you find chuck, it's the black pistol he uses. As well as it is every time after.

2) Hm...never played that path so I dunno

3) Either it was also locked or they didn't see it. I never noticed that window outside and I don't think it was on that side of the house. Or it could be design error. I never saw this problem.

4) You mean the door downstairs? The downstairs they had no access to? Yeah, that didn't bother me so much. Plus I don't think that was a hallway.

5) That one perplexed me a bit too. Was it all barbed wire though? I wasn't sure. Otherwise he could have climbed up the fence.

6) You still threatened him though. Apologizing does not mean he wont still assume you are somewhat a dick. Don't threaten him at all and it will be fine.

My plot holes, however, are focused on these points:

1) How did the walkers who trapped Christa and Vernon get in? There were no other entrances they get in from, since the front door was blocked and the exit to Molly had a large fence blocking it with no gaps.

2) How did the walker in the shed appear? Lee already went in there and there was no walker. The fence and other barriers were still there.

3) The infinite pocket video game trope aside, how did Molly fit a giant, awkwardly shaped car battery in her little bag? And how was she able to jump a huge gap between rooftops with it? I know she's tough, but that is still a heavy object that would weigh you down. I doubt she's THAT strong.

4) How long did it take for Kenny to sober up so quickly when they found the boat? Didn't feel like much time passed.

5) How did Ben get the hatchet without noticing the hoard of walkers pounding on the door? They were there a second ago when Lee checked and then they weren't when he talked to Molly. What magically whisked them away from the door for a few seconds for Ben to get the hatchet before the church bells rang?

6) What context does Kenny mean when he says there has been plenty of times I wasn't on his side? I did a lot to support him personally as well as his family and I only disagreed on some ethical choices. Not killing Larry and keeping Ben alive are directly not being on his side, but shooting the girl and keeping Lilly around hardly qualifies as "many times" to me. I could bring up saving Duck at the farm, standing up to Larry, feeding Duck in three different episodes, rescuing his family when he got shot, rescuing everyone from the bandits, calmly talking to him to tell him he didn't kill Shawn, killing Duck myself so he wouldn't have to, killing the little boy so he wouldn't have to and other small acts of kindness to counter that if the game let me. Does he just have a selective memory?

[Demonseed]

1. The unlimited or resupplying of ammo has always been there, it is possible he had bullets in his pocket he forgot about, I've done that with my keys and ID card quite a bit over the years. I also disagree that the pistol would dislocate Clem's arm, maybe if she was a newborn? I have a nephew who was firing a 7mm rifle, a 10 gauge shotgun and 30-06 rifle since he was about 8 and he never got hurt other than the first recoil he wasn't expecting (haven't we all).

2. Unsure how the walker got in the house but I think the one response where Clem might have went outside is as good an explaination as any and the most logical.

3. I didn't see that window, I'm gonna need to check that out.

4. Maybe the door could only be opened on the inside of the armory? Maybe the door didn't have a handle in the hallway side? (I'll have to replay and look, I didn't notice.

5. Maybe the zombies in the Motor Pool cleared out, maybe Lee climbed back over the fence and through the woodshed the way he came? It is unclear but not unreasonable to assume that.

6. I was nice to Vernon the first time and I told him Clem was not my daughter. He was nice to me, however my second play through I threatened him and neither he nor Brie were very nice to me, Brie especially as she wouldn't even talk to me in the school.

[Yertos]

Originally Posted by zgamer

2) The one Clem shoots was one of the zombies that busted through the door Ben took the hatchet from. So they came from there.

Sorry but he means when you leave Clem back at the manor and she shoots a zombie while your gone. To further at to that confusion, if you leave her at the manor and don't give her the gun, she somehow locks the walker into the broom closet then hides upstairs :P. How she get 'em in there?

[DreadMagus]

Lure them in, and then crawl away between it's legs and then slam the door while it's turning? lol

[Ghositex]

I tought we already stated this before. Several times. Clementine started the whole ZA and all of the walkers obey her. She's just using everyone in our survivor group for herpersonalprofitandthenshewillkillever- *AHEM* I really don't get how Clementine survived that walker inside of the house, alone. She just freezes Everytime she sees a walker. Talking about the walkers outside of the nursery, one of the closed doors might have been unlocked, and they just came out of there in the worst moment.

[aguyuno]

Originally Posted by Ghositex

I tought we already stated this before. Several times. Clementine started the whole ZA and all of the walkers obey her. She's just using everyone in our survivor group for herpersonalprofitandthenshewillkillever- *AHEM* I really don't get how Clementine survived that walker inside of the house, alone. She just freezes Everytime she sees a walker. Talking about the walkers outside of the nursery, one of the closed doors might have been unlocked, and they just came out of there in the worst moment.

She freezes when she sees one and is unarmed*. If you take her to Crawford, she saves Molly's ass. She knows her shit.

[Ghositex]

Originally Posted by aguyuno

She freezes when she sees one and is unarmed*. If you take her to Crawford, she saves Molly's ass. She knows her shit.

Well, you're right, Clemmy is a badass, her being eight years old and all. However she was still armed at the train station and couldn't shoot the walker.
Edit: I LOVED when Clementine saved Molly, I was just trying to aim and "nice shot" "but.. It wasn't me!" and suddenly, Clem.

[aguyuno]

Originally Posted by Ghositex

Well, you're right, Clemmy is a badass, her being eight years old and all. However she was still armed at the train station and couldn't shoot the walker.
Edit: I LOVED when Clementine saved Molly, I was just trying to aim and "nice shot" "but.. It wasn't me!" and suddenly, Clem.

True. But it was her first time. All I know is, the next time she didn't freeze up at all. And that's damn impressive.