The Spectacular Marvel Super-Thread

[Darth Marsden]

Agent Coulson lives!

And good thing too, since he's headlining the new S.H.I.E.L.D. TV show.

This makes it even more of a must-watch than before. And it was already pretty must-watch, so...

[Shadowknight1]

Yes, and it makes me wonder. Is this BEFORE The Avengers? And if it's after...HOW?!

[Alcoremortis]

Life Model Decoy.

And then every episode a new Life Model Decoy dies in a new and creative way.

[Darth Marsden]

I neither know nor care as to how. All I know is I couldn't stop smiling for an hour after I found this out.

But, to put some thought into it...

A Life Model Decoy seems a little too sci-fi to throw at the audience. I know, sounds silly, but still. They could just hand-wave it by saying Nick Fury's lie was a little bigger than just getting red on his ledger cards. He was seriously injured and passed out, but was saved by the medics. Simple, believable, done.

Or the show could be a prequel to The Avengers. I'm not such a huge fan of that idea, but it'd work too.

[Alcoremortis]

I was pretty sure that he'd be the lead in the show ever since they announced the show's existence. Because the other S.H.I.E.L.D. people are really big names that wouldn't normally be in TV shows. And Coulson is something of a fan favorite character with very little established continuity, which is something that Whedon would probably go for.

Originally Posted by Darth Marsden

A Life Model Decoy seems a little too sci-fi to throw at the audience. I know, sounds silly, but still. They could just hand-wave it by saying Nick Fury's lie was a little bigger than just getting red on his ledger cards. He was seriously injured and passed out, but was saved by the medics. Simple, easy, done.

Well, that was mostly a joke since that's how the comics would have handled it. Though it's not an entirely new concept in the movieverse. Stark did try to pass himself off as one in Avengers. He was joking of course, but the reference was still made.

[Darth Marsden]

Well, there's a cellist. I think.

[Shadowknight1]

Still...if Coulson is brought back from the dead by whatever means...that'll be one of the first resurrections/"cop-outs" I've ever heard of Joss Whedon doing.

[GaryCXJk]

Coulson wasn't dead at all, confirmed by Joss Whedon even while the Avengers was still in theatres. Nick Fury, both in this continuity as well as most other continuities, is a chronic liar.

[Alcoremortis]

Originally Posted by Shadowknight1

Still...if Coulson is brought back from the dead by whatever means...that'll be one of the first resurrections/"cop-outs" I've ever heard of Joss Whedon doing.

Whedon's resurrected characters before. He resurrected Buffy twice, and had a quasi resurrection for Spike and Angel in the Buffyverse as well as a copout for Marty in Cabin in the Woods. There's a few other instances where he also brings characters back as ghosts or duplicates as well (like in Dollhouse, they can be brought back as memories).

The reason he hasn't done it with the other fan favorite characters was that their deaths happened at the end of the series/show and there was no real need to bring them back. He also tends to leave characters dead if they died in a non-mystic way (like if they were shot) but tends to leave a loophole if they, say, fell through a portal into a hell dimension or something.

[Shadowknight1]

Originally Posted by GaryCXJk

Coulson wasn't dead at all, confirmed by Joss Whedon even while the Avengers was still in theatres. Nick Fury, both in this continuity as well as most other continuities, is a chronic liar.

Source?

[cormoran]

Well that's a shame, I guess the writers have no backbone afterall.

[Darth Marsden]

Agent Coulson is very widely liked. Bringing him back doesn't show a lack of backbone. It shows that they respond to what people want. It also encourages people to watch the show - not that they needed encouragement, mind...

[Alcoremortis]

Some would say that succumbing to fan pressure would show a lack of backbone.

However, I have no objection to him not having have died in the first place or coming back to life if there is a legitimate reason for him to do so that furthers the plot. If he just comes back because people want him to... I'd rather not have that.

But I do love the idea of Fury just flat out lying. That is a good reason for Coulson to be alive... and pissed that his Captain America cards are now covered in blood.

[cormoran]

Originally Posted by Darth Marsden

Agent Coulson is very widely liked. Bringing him back doesn't show a lack of backbone. It shows that they respond to what people want. It also encourages people to watch the show - not that they needed encouragement, mind...

That's EXACTLY why they have no backbone, they caved in to fan pressure.

I like Coulson too. I didn't want him to die, but killing off a somewhat main character showed that there was some danger and threat to 'the avengers', this decision shows it was all just a flashy light show and that there won't be any tension at all in further movies or shows since we now know all the good guys are invulnerable.

Thanos and the infinity gauntlet just got a whole lot more boring, send in the hulk and yawn through the rest. Anyone dies it'll just be a life model decoy or some other deus ex machina convenience.

This has actually discouraged me from watching the show, I'll stick with 'Arrow'.

[Darth Marsden]

I want to debate this with you cormoran, but I really don't know how to counter your argument. You seem pretty set in your ways. I'll give it a go anyway though.

Just because Coulson's death didn't stick this time doesn't mean the next one won't. It took a few deaths in Buffy for one to be permanent - Tara, for example. That came from nowhere and fucked things up but good. But just because one person's been brought back from the dead doesn't mean it'll happen all the time. Though it is a very comic-ish thing to do, so...

Honestly, yeah. Supers won't die. That'd kill off any potential spin-off movies (like the Black Widow/Hawkeye espionage movie they should be making). So it's the normal people they'd kill off, if any. But the audience likes all the normal people, so it doesn't make much sense to kill them off for good. I do see your point. I do.

But just because no-one's (probably) going to die doesn't mean there won't be any tension. You don't need a fatality to add drama to a story. You just need a well written story with an interesting narrative. High stakes helps, sure, but it doesn't have to mean people die. It could be the threat of people dying. Or it could be the possible annihilation of a planet. Or, hell - Joss has said he wants Avengers 2 to be smaller and more personal. It could be about driving the team apart and going back to fighting each other. That'd make for an interesting film.

We don't know what the forthcoming films will be about. I'll wait for more info before dismissing them out of hand as you seem to be doing. And if you honestly yawned during the Hulk's fight scenes, then there's something wrong with you.

Originally Posted by Alcoremortis

Some would say that succumbing to fan pressure would show a lack of backbone.

Fair enough. But they've said it wasn't just the fans who wanted him back. Clark Gregg's pretty popular with the team, from what I understand.

Originally Posted by Alcoremortis

However, I have no objection to him not having have died in the first place or coming back to life if there is a legitimate reason for him to do so that furthers the plot. If he just comes back because people want him to... I'd rather not have that.

But I do love the idea of Fury just flat out lying. That is a good reason for Coulson to be alive... and pissed that his Captain America cards are now covered in blood.

Agreed. The idea I had is that Fury said Coulson was dead to spur the team on, and the 'bloody' cards were an extension of that. If/when the team find out Coulson's not dead, they're happy to see him and furious at Fury, thus providing conflict for Avengers 2 or whenever.

Maybe there'll be a scene in the show with Coulson on the phone pestering Fury to buy him a new set to replace the ones he ruined. That'd be a very 'him' thing to do.

[Alcoremortis]

Originally Posted by cormoran

That's EXACTLY why they have no backbone, they caved in to fan pressure.

I like Coulson too. I didn't want him to die, but killing off a somewhat main character showed that there was some danger and threat to 'the avengers', this decision shows it was all just a flashy light show and that there won't be any tension at all in further movies or shows since we now know all the good guys are invulnerable.

Thanos and the infinity gauntlet just got a whole lot more boring, send in the hulk and yawn through the rest. Anyone dies it'll just be a life model decoy or some other deus ex machina convenience.

This has actually discouraged me from watching the show, I'll stick with 'Arrow'.

I think it really depends on the reason why they do it. If there's a good reason, plotwise, then I'm totally okay with it.

In addition, there doesn't necessarily need to be physical danger to the main character(s) of comic/show/movie for there to be tension. The tension can come instead from the character's self destructive habits (such as Tony Stark's alcoholism) or mental instability (Banner... just Banner). Whedon has already mentioned that the next movie will get more personal, which leads me to believe that the danger won't be so much a physical threat as something more insidious that plays on their insecurities to tear the team down again.

And if that's not how the next movie goes, I'm totally writing a fanfiction with a villain who takes them apart piece by piece because that sounds like the sort of thing I'd like to read.

[Shadowknight1]

Originally Posted by cormoran

That's EXACTLY why they have no backbone, they caved in to fan pressure.

How did they cave to fan pressure? I don't know about you guys, but I sure haven't seen forums up in arms that Coulson died and demanding that he be put on the SHIELD TV show. I think the team behind it recognizes that Coulson is the face of SHIELD to a lot of people now and having him in the series is the best way to tie everything together without paying Samuel L Jackson exorbitant amounts to guest star once and a while.

[cormoran]

Originally Posted by Shadowknight1

How did they cave to fan pressure? I don't know about you guys, but I sure haven't seen forums up in arms that Coulson died and demanding that he be put on the SHIELD TV show. I think the team behind it recognizes that Coulson is the face of SHIELD to a lot of people now and having him in the series is the best way to tie everything together without paying Samuel L Jackson exorbitant amounts to guest star once and a while.

You may want to check IMDB, it was rife with save coulson threads when avengers came out.

[Darth Marsden]

Originally Posted by cormoran

You may want to check IMDB, it was rife with save coulson threads when avengers came out.

That's just fans for you. They'll demand anything on the internet. Even a reboot of a crappy 90s CGI cartoon.

[DrRocketGenius]

This makes me happy. So, so happy.