Robert Kirkman really screwed up Lily in The Road to Woodbury...

[ZacTB]

SPOILERS FOR EPISODE 3 BELOW:

I remember there being a topic on this ages ago but I really hate how Robert Kirkman completely changed Lily's backstory when Telltale had it covered in the video game. Having Lily in the video game was great after reading the comics and my favourite part of the game is in Episode 3 outside of the RV and that whole sequence, and where I realised that Lee's (my) actions led her to what she did and I left her on the side of the road. That was a great moment as it made me think that if the meatlocker situation was handled differently, she never would have ended up in Woodbury and Lori and the baby from the comics could still be alive.

I know that choices don't really matter but from what I did (sided with Kenny in the meatlocker and kind of regretted it) it all made sense. But now it's kind of messed up since in Road to Woodbury (I haven't actually read it, just seen things on the Walking Dead Wikipedia) Kirkman completely changed her backstory including her dad's name and the way he died, even though it is quite clear video game Lily is the same Lily at Woodbury. I really don't understand why Kirkman wouldn't just leave it, from the look of her backstory in Road to Woodbury, Telltale did it so much better anyway. I know it doesn't really matter too much, but things like this bother me.

Has Robert Kirkman ever talked about this? He could have still made Road to Woodbury but made it occur after she seperated from the group (I am sure there is some way he could get past the RV thing, since she would have had to abandon it anyway and either way would have ended up walking on the road), and had her mention Larry. What do you guys think about it?

Edit: Wasn't sure if this should be in the Spoiler section or not, since that is mostly discussing Episode 4 and Episode 3 did come out quite a while ago.

[trd84]

he was asked about it before the book came out. He didn't give an answer. I'm sure he wanted to capitalize off the game because it got popular. So he didn't say it wasn't the same Lily.

[SickBoy2212]

a book takes time to write and the sypnosis is already done first, which was most likely done before the first episode of the VG was even out yet.

Plus, i'll trust what Kirkman wrote himself more than what's in the VG. it's not Kirkman's problem to adjust to what telltale is doing with the game, after all, he only helped with the story of the game, he didn't write it all himself.

[trd84]

Originally Posted by SickBoy2212

a book takes time to write and the sypnosis is already done first, which was most likely done before the first episode of the VG was even out yet.

Plus, i'll trust what Kirkman wrote himself more than what's in the VG. it's not Kirkman's problem to adjust to what telltale is doing with the game, after all, he only helped with the story of the game, he didn't write it all himself.

Telltale didn't write the story without getting approval from Kirkman. He changed it after the game was underway. EP1 telltale was still promoting Lily as Lily from the comic. So he didn't even tell them before the game was out.

[DreadMagus]

I hate to say it, but this change keeps me from buying the book.

I was hoping there'd be enough to tie the game to the comic... now... meh....

[trd84]

Originally Posted by DreadMagus

I hate to say it, but this change keeps me from buying the book.

I was hoping there'd be enough to tie the game to the comic... now... meh....

I know some people that preordered it because of the game

[SickBoy2212]

Originally Posted by trd84

Telltale didn't write the story without getting approval from Kirkman. He changed it after the game was underway. EP1 telltale was still promoting Lily as Lily from the comic. So he didn't even tell them before the game was out.

maybe so, he might've changed his mind, i just don't like people using the words ''screwing up'' when referring to what Kirkman does with HIS universe.

[LadyJ]

Originally Posted by DreadMagus

I hate to say it, but this change keeps me from buying the book.

I was hoping there'd be enough to tie the game to the comic... now... meh....

I read it and it was enjoyable. Seems to tie the book to the comic. At least it explains some of the things. Actually, it could go both ways. There are some things in the book that affect the characters in the game as well. Lily is obviously different but overall I think it does a good job of maintaining the universe. That's actually pretty hard to do.

[DreadMagus]

Hard to do?

Not really. It just requires communication and coordination.

[FoxxyFox]

Well I feel the same like Dreadmagus about the comic. Wanted to order it but now after knowing it... mehh.

[Vainamoinen]

I don't understand how this could have happened. Books aren't written and published in weeks. The plans for this publication and the plans for Telltale's game must have coincided. Did Kirkman keep the idea for himself during those early meetings with Telltale? Did Telltale know about Kirkman's plans and still went ahead with the idea? If they both agreed and essentially knew there'd be two contradicting Lilly background stories around by the end of the year, WHY DO IT? What is the philosophy, how do they regard issues of canon?

Fans want canon in a franchise across all media, and Telltale has always been on the forefront of making games which could be considered canon (and sometimes the original creator of the franchise even alluded to the idea that he in fact DOES consider it canon). Knowing about Kirkman's plans and still going ahead with 'their' Lilly would be, in my opinion, an un-telltale thing to do.

[Snake Liquid]

Yeah, Telltale, I think, for all intents and purposes had created Lilly in the game to be the same one in the comic. It's obvious this is true due to Lilly having the same last name in the game as the comic character and having the same background (working at the Air Force Base).

Kirkman would have known about the fact that Telltale was using Lilly in the game, since we all knew from way back that characters such as Lilly, Glenn and Hershel from the comic were going to appear in the game. Instead he decided to write his book and use the same character with a different back story, which is extremely unfortunate.

Also, I'm positive Lilly used to be on this Telltale page announcing the survivors that are in the game from the comic:

http://www.telltalegames.com/community/blogs/id-962

She's not there anymore. Lilly in the game, I guess, is officially no longer the Lilly from the comic.

[Red Panda]

Originally Posted by Vainamoinen

I don't understand how this could have happened. Books aren't written and published in weeks. The plans for this publication and the plans for Telltale's game must have coincided.

This.

[lucidity02]

To be fair, Kirkman was quoted in one interview -- I'll try to find the link -- in which he's extremely vague about whether Lilly in the game is the same as comic Lilly. So he was playing it pretty close to the vest from the start. That said, based on the episode three achievement list (the original one), Telltale was working under the assumption that the two were one and the same. Kirkman had ample time to correct them -- I mean, it's his universe, so you think he'd look at this stuff at least somewhat closely -- and he didn't. I love his comics and I love TWD, but that was seriously not cool.

[Snake Liquid]

Originally Posted by lucidity02

To be fair, Kirkman was quoted in one interview -- I'll try to find the link -- in which he's extremely vague about whether Lilly in the game is the same as comic Lilly. So he was playing it pretty close to the vest from the start. That said, based on the episode three achievement list (the original one), Telltale was working under the assumption that the two were one and the same. Kirkman had ample time to correct them -- I mean, it's his universe, so you think he'd look at this stuff at least somewhat closely -- and he didn't. I love his comics and I love TWD, but that was seriously not cool.

http://blog.us.playstation.com/2012/...obert-kirkman/

"PSB: Speaking of the novels, I recently finished The Rise of the Governor. And I understand the next book Road to Woodbury will focus on Lili, an infamous character from the comics. Will there be any tie-in to the game? Is there any chance Lili appear in future episodes of the game, for example?

RK: There will definitely be a character named Lili in the game. Whether or not that ends up being the same character we know and love from the comic and the upcoming novel remains to be seen. But yeah, the new novel comes out in October and I’m excited about it. The novel series, the comic series, and the video game all are intertwined in the same universe. Keeping that continuity straight is something that’s been very important to me, and yeah, we’ll definitely see them continue to connect in a lot of interesting ways moving forward."

He cares about continuity, hmm? I haven't read the book, but it could have easily been Alice that came to Woodbury in the book, instead of Lilly. Especially since the descriptions I've read of the book say that Lilly bumps heads with how the Governor runs Woodbury, it would make more sense having it be Alice to show why she so willingly leaves the town with Rick, Glenn and Michonne. Oh well I guess. It doesn't matter now.

[Motordead]

Its like telling George Lucas to not include something in his movies. He has the right to change whatever he wants in the story and in his universe. And like the mod said it takes months, maybe even years to write a good novel. You can't make base everything off of Telltales game, they did not create the walking dead universe.

[lucidity02]

Originally Posted by Motordead

Its like telling George Lucas to not include something in his movies. He has the right to change whatever he wants in the story and in his universe. And like the mod said it takes months, maybe even years to write a good novel. You can't make base everything off of Telltales game, they did not create the walking dead universe.

Sure, of course he has the right. But what I'm saying is that he should have at least given Telltale a heads up. Shit, they could have just changed the character's *name*, thus avoiding all of this confusion and potential continuity problems. It's not his responsibility, sure, but like I said, I think that TT was working under the assumption that she was the same character. If he had just given them a heads up early in the process, maybe everyone could have avoided the delayed release of episode three.

[Vainamoinen]

Originally Posted by Snake Liquid

RK: There will definitely be a character named Lili in the game. Whether or not that ends up being the same character we know and love from the comic and the upcoming novel remains to be seen.

I read that too. It's an interview from August - four months after the game Season had started. The game was advertised with Lilly as being "from the comics" in some way, but I'm not sure in what way exactly, and I have trouble digging it out right now. I do know that there was at least one allusion in her game character description which stated something like "will play a crucial role in Rick's life" or something. So Lilly Caul was always MEANT to be the girl who shoots Rick's wife and her baby in the blink of an eye by the Telltale designers.

[lucidity02]

Originally Posted by Vainamoinen

I read that too. It's an interview from August - four months after the game Season had started. The game was advertised with Lilly as being "from the comics" in some way, but I'm not sure in what way exactly, and I have trouble digging it out right now. I do know that there was at least one allusion in her game character description which stated something like "will play a crucial role in Rick's life" or something. So Lilly Caul was always MEANT to be the girl who shoots Rick's wife and her baby in the blink of an eye by the Telltale designers.

I believe it was on a Telltale Games official page but has since been taken down. Here's a link to a thread that mentions it:

https://www.telltalegames.com/forums...=32745&page=13

[Red Panda]

I kind of equally blame both. Kirkman for not putting in the effort to make it cannon and TT for using a comic book character and protagonist from a fucking novel as a major character. They should have done what they did with Glenn. That was the best way to approach it I believe.