Hero-U - from the makers of Quest for Glory

[Darth Marsden]

Exactly what it says on the tin. Cory and Lori Cole, the creators of Quest for Glory, are making a new game series,
Hero-U.

You may now squee.

[RogerXY]

The Kickstarter is finally launched (still has to be activated by KS though) for Lori and Corey Cole's new game "Hero-U: Rogue to Redemption. The couple that brought us the "Quest for Glory"-series is back!

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/...token=e777beb1

[Darth Marsden]

Hero-U plays like a classic RPG, with turn-based tactical combat and exploration of the environment on top-down, 2D maps.

Felt I should emphasize this, since it's rather buried beneath the tier descriptions.

My question - what the heck does that mean? Will it play like classic Final Fantasy games? Baldur's Gate? What? These guys are amazing at saying a whole bunch and at the same time saying nothing. They talk about it being "a true RPG", with "tactical combat that is much more than 'hack and slash'". But that's all they have - talk. No real screenshots, no examples of how it'll control or feel... I've never seen a Kickstarter project with so much text but so little concrete information.

[Chyron8472]

Sounds like they'd make good politicians.

[Darth Marsden]

They'd have to lose the hats first. Seriously, what's with those?

[Alexian]

Originally Posted by Darth Marsden

Felt I should emphasize this, since it's rather buried beneath the tier descriptions.

My question - what the heck does that mean? Will it play like classic Final Fantasy games? Baldur's Gate? What? These guys are amazing at saying a whole bunch and at the same time saying nothing. They talk about it being "a true RPG", with "tactical combat that is much more than 'hack and slash'". But that's all they have - talk. No real screenshots, no examples of how it'll control or feel... I've never seen a Kickstarter project with so much text but so little concrete information.

You make good points, and we will be clarifying how combat works, and re-arranging content around. Thanks for your feedback.

Here's a bit more details on combat:

Right now it's a solo hero, with multi-panel movement (one of the issues with a Rogue-like is that the one movement per turn makes monsters too predictable.)

For the moment, your most important characters options are choosing the right poisons and traps to use. For example, you might use a slow poison on a large Minotaur, and then lure out the surrounding minions to kill one by one. Maybe on the Hard setting you're not strong enough to kill the Minotaur by yourself, so you set up a spring trap to launch it into a pit. For simpler battles, it might just be using a burning poison to kill a set of octopus-like monsters quickly. For basic combat a lot of it will be figuring out the monster's weaknesses, and then choosing positioning to pick them off without taking too much damage.

[Darth Marsden]

It's not just the combat I'd like more information on - it's everything. You don't explain what the game will look like, what it'll play like - hell, you don't even say if it's a PC game or not! The only way I knew is by looking at which category the Kickstarter project is in! You can't just throw around your premise and expect people to back it if you're not going to properly tell us what you're making.

Here's the very first sentence from Project Eternity's Kickstarter page:

Project Eternity is an isometric, party-based computer RPG set in a new fantasy world developed by Obsidian Entertainment.

Boosh. The entire project summed up neatly and concisely in one clear sentence. That's the sort of thing you need - a clear explanation of what exactly your project is. At the moment you have a huge amount of text, but no definitive 'this is what the game will be like'.

You'll attract far more people if you cut down on the vast amount of text you have on your page (seriously, it's a staggeringly huge amount to sift through) and just provide a basic overview of what the game actually will be. You can still have your text, just add it in updates. But you need to remember that people need solid information, and you don't really give any.

Wow, that sounded really negative. And repetitive. Sorry 'bout that.

[Irishmile]

I really like the concept background art... but then THIS image leaves me massively underwhelmed.. I hate to be a Debby Downer.. but this looks like a really cheap iOS shovelware game.... That makes me sad.

[Macfly77]

Originally Posted by Irishmile

I really like the concept background art... but then THIS image leaves me massively underwhelmed.. I hate to be a Debby Downer.. but this looks like a really cheap iOS shovelware game.... That makes me sad.

From the Kickstarter's first update:

"Most of you understand that games are developed using "placeholder art", but I am adding this since we've seen some complaints about the "test dungeon" art in the video. In previous games, we sometimes represented a character with a grey box or a red "X". The "game images" you see in this Kickstarter project are all placeholders. Some of them are really beautiful placeholders, but they may or may not be representative of final game art.

In particular, the 2D top-down image included in the video is a concept piece. That is the point of view you will have in the game, but the actual image is a placeholder. The actual Hero-U game will give you the freedom of movement and tactical actions that the top down view allows, but it will be carefully crafted to look Really Nice in the game. As it is, our prototype is way nicer than boxes and X's. :-)"

[doom saber]

Not sure how I feel about this project despite that it the game is a sequel of sorts to the QFG series; it is obvious this game takes place in the same universe as the one in QFG - the creators are trying to give the game that old "Sierra" look in the game, they seem obsessed in making games about heroes going to Hero school, and they hired people from the AGI community who worked on the QFG2 remake (The art director who did those Disney-style promotional art for the QFG2 remake is also the art director for this new game.)

I love QFG, but having the game being more of a RPG game with a top down view might not convey the same feeling as the old Sierra QFG games.

I wonder what QFG references we will see in the game since I am sure the Coles can't use every references from their Sierra game (copyright and all.)

[RogerXY]

A few recent interviews with the Coles:

On Mashable.com: http://mashable.com/2012/09/17/hero-u/

On Kotaku.com: http://kotaku.com/5953028/the-creato...ona?tag=hero_u

On RPGCodex.net: http://www.rpgcodex.net/content.php?id=8549

On RockPaperShotgun.com: http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012...n-going-rogue/

In the New York Post (NYPost.com): http://www.nypost.com/p/blogs/gamere...Cc214MdZhtEh1M

On AdventureGamers.com: http://www.adventuregamers.com/news/view/23082

[Jarikith]

Originally Posted by Darth Marsden

It's not just the combat I'd like more information on - it's everything. You don't explain what the game will look like, what it'll play like - hell, you don't even say if it's a PC game or not! The only way I knew is by looking at which category the Kickstarter project is in! You can't just throw around your premise and expect people to back it if you're not going to properly tell us what you're making.

Here's the very first sentence from Project Eternity's Kickstarter page:Boosh. The entire project summed up neatly and concisely in one clear sentence. That's the sort of thing you need - a clear explanation of what exactly your project is. At the moment you have a huge amount of text, but no definitive 'this is what the game will be like'.

You'll attract far more people if you cut down on the vast amount of text you have on your page (seriously, it's a staggeringly huge amount to sift through) and just provide a basic overview of what the game actually will be. You can still have your text, just add it in updates. But you need to remember that people need solid information, and you don't really give any.

Wow, that sounded really negative. And repetitive. Sorry 'bout that.

Project Eternity has the advantage there of being able to point at a game that's exactly like what they're making and boil out the juicy bits for a soundbite. 'Bam! It's Balder's gate, only in our own setting! Done!' The Coles are making something.. unique.. which makes it harder to pin down in a few sentences. Is this hurting them? Sure. Likely. Apparently reading is such a chore these days. :P But it's just the nature of putting together something that doesn't neatly fit into a little box. On the plus side for those of us who've pledged, Lori's commenting pretty regularly on the Kickstarter so there's loads of new info to be had and they've heard about your concerns and know its an issue, they'll likely be doing something (Updates, alter the main page, etc) to try and clear things up. I have faith in them, after all they're pioneers, they injected RPG Elements into a different genre long before everyone started doing it. I'm sure they can inject Adventure Elements into the RPG genre and do just as good a job with it and maybe that'll be the next thing people start putting into everything! Adventure Elements for all! Which can only be a good thing for Adventure Game lovers.

[Darth Marsden]

Please use sentences. Big blocks of text like that aren't nice.

It's nice to know Lori & Cori will be clearing things up a little. I have a bad feeling though that they'll end up with something like Shaker - plenty of information via updates, but the initial idea had so little concrete info people just didn't care and therefore didn't pledge. I know this has a lower goal, but I still have a niggling doubt the same thing'll happen here. I hope it doesn't, but...

[Chyron8472]

Originally Posted by Jarikith

Apparently reading is such a chore these days.

This isn't a novel. It's an initial game overview. It's a marketing tool.

When you're trying to make your case for why your opinion, product, idea, etc. merits consideration, it's important to keep things clear and concise. Learning how to keep your target audience's attention is an important skill.

If the purpose of a Kickstarter page is to convince people why they should be interested in the product in question, it should be made plainly and simply what it is about said product that we would be interested in. If we have to read through walls of text to find the few tidbits interspersed throughout that we were really looking for... you know, some people aren't going to bother going to all the trouble.

Suffice it to say that just because someone says an article/post is tl;dr or without proper paragraph breaks, it doesn't make them lazy or a troll.

Originally Posted by Jarikith

The Coles are making something.. unique.. which makes it harder to pin down in a few sentences.

Not really. The customer has pretty simple questions which only require pretty simple answers.

• What general genre(s) does it fit into? What control scheme does it use? What camera perspective does it use?
• Does it have combat elements? If so, is the combat turn-based or real-time? Do you switch to a different screen interface for combat or not?
• Does your character have stats? If so, which ones can you increase over time and how?
• What kind of inventory system does the game have, if any? Can you use inventory items to interact/combine with other inventory items?
• Do you have weapons and armor? What types will there be and how many? Can you upgrade their stats? Do they degrade with use?
• Can you interact with non-combat NPCs? If so, for what purpose? Will there be voice-acting?

These are a TON of questions, but again, they could be answered very briefly and simply in general terms without lots of text. If you want to elaborate on it, then you do so afterward.

It's as simple as a high-school English class. Give an introductory paragraph in which you have a thesis statement. Your thesis sums up the whole topic in one or two sentences. Then, you elaborate by giving the meat of your discussion, and at the end you give a brief conclusion.


Or, as my mom (who is an attorney) has said, "sum up what you're going to say, then say it, then briefly sum up what you said." I can't tell you how many game reviews I've read where I just read the first and last paragraphs because I didn't want to spend half an hour deciding whether I agreed with the reviewer or even found the game interesting.

[Darth Marsden]

Also, I did read it. All of it. I didn't really see anything concrete though. Re-reading it, here's the highlights.

Hero-U plays like a classic RPG, with turn-based tactical combat and exploration of the environment on top-down, 2D maps.

WHICH classic RPG? There's been loads! Baldur's Gate? Zelda? Might & Magic? Specifics, dammit! And this is under the section called "Details, Give Me Details". WHICH THEY DON'T. Instead, we get a few features that aren't explained in context. And a picture of a cat sitting in front of a monitor. Lovely.

As in a good film or novel – and unlike most games – Shawn will have the opportunity to change his attitude and outlook as the result of his experiences.

...what. Were they serious when they wrote this? Games are full of moral choices! Mass Effect, anyone?

There's only so much we can say about the game in this space.

This is the biggest laugh of them all. Given how much space they've already used, surely they could change some of it to actually say something rather than force us to wade through pages of interviews just to find out what the hell the game's going to be like? Honestly.

[RogerXY]

Update #3 is posted which answers some important questions: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/...demption/posts

[Darth Marsden]

No, no it doesn't. All I got from that is that it's gonna be a bit like Quest for Glory... and I already knew that.

[RogerXY]

What questions, specific, would you like to get answered Darth Marsden?

[Darth Marsden]

To be honest, I'd just like a step-by-step description of what the game (combat specifically) will look and play like. A comparison to other games would be a godsend in this regard.

When I say step-by-step, I mean it. Describe, in detail, what an actual battle would be like. Go through every step - your character rolls for initiative, he draws his sword, you move him two space to the left, you select the option to attack, there's a random number that when combined with your dexterity determines whether you hit the enemy him or not, the same thing happens with your strength to determine how much damage he takes, then the enemy does the same thing, etc.

Or they could just compare it to something else. For example - they could say it'll all take place from a top-down perspective on a grid-based system, not unsimilar to D&D gaming. Or they could say it plays out in a turn-based style like classic JRPGs.

Or, best of all, they could actually show us with a video. Yes the graphics would be placeholders, fine, but if we could get an idea of what it will be like, it'd be so much easier to know whether to back it or not.

[Vainamoinen]

After writing some detailed impressions of the kickstarter in the kickstarter thread, I recognized that you were talking about this elsewhere.
Now I can't even merge this!! That's SOME advertisement for this kickstarter...

Well, I find the project interesting to a degree; still, as always, I will have to wait until 400,000 are reached and PayPal channels are opened. Yup, yup.

I must admit, I'm a bit tired of old school video game designers thinking that they can do an ancient type of game again and still have ample financial support with only so much as their names in a crowd funding campaign. Because, let's be honest, Hero-U certainly strikes me as an unimaginative and potentially immersion breaking name. The whole "school of heroes" thing is also done to death already. Not the best way to start a story.

Turn based sounds good and adventure elements sounds good; and, thank God, they have their hero named already. Fuck, we'll maybe even get a meaningful back story instead of a nameless face whose entire family was killed and whose past is nonexistent, but can be configured with eight different beards. Still, it's a thief. *sigh*

2D top down, well, UGH, I would have preferred the adventure backdrop approach that they're promising for "special scenes", but I see that the sandboxy puzzled dungeons are far, far less work.

And the top down dungeon art needs to be FAR, FAR better than the preliminary placeholders. So much in fact that in the following quote:

Some of them are really beautiful placeholders, but they may or may not be representative of final game art

,the idea that according to these words the placeholders MAY be representative of final game art makes me panic. Detail, texture, light and shadow, visible color schemes would just be the beginning of what's missing. I'm not sure they have done themselves a favor by publishing these pictures. It will make me research the core artists in a hurry to see if they can deliver.

But as for the details everyone seems to be craving about... errr, well, I'll try hard to not want more details. It's only been a few month since Tim S. told us abso-fucking-lutely NOTHING about his project, namely because he hadn't yet thought this far, and got more than three million dolllars. Or Jordan W., who scored almost two million without handing out more than a remote idea about what his game would be like. Compare this to the Shadowrun Online kickstarter campaign, they explained absolutely everything for their almost finished game in loooong videos narrated by Star Trek actors and almost didn't make it as a result.