Robert Kirkman really screwed up Lily in The Road to Woodbury...

[lucidity02]

Originally Posted by Red Panda

I kind of equally blame both. Kirkman for not putting in the effort to make it cannon and TT for using a comic book character and protagonist for a fucking novel as a major character. They should have done what they did with Glenn. That was the best way to approach it I believe.

Yeah, I see your point. Like I mentioned above, Telltale could have just named the character Sylvia or Edna or whatever and there wouldn't be any confusion about what was canon and what wasn't -- or they could have just had Lilly show up, chat a little bit in episode one and then bounce.

That said, novels take a long time to write, and I feel like there was ample time for Kirkman to step in and send an email that said "Sup, fools? Hey, Lilly in the novel is totally different from the character you've created. Want me to add a little throwaway line into the novel that says that prior events have turned her into a timid character totally unlike the one you're depicting in your game? Cool. I'll do that."

That's an oversimplification, maybe, and Kirkman DOES own the universe, but it would have been a cool thing for him to do. I'm a little surprised he didn't.

[godzilla999666]

Did it ever occur to you that maybe it was telltale that went away from what kirkman came up with? Maybe kirkman told them the name of lily and a little of the story, and they went off on thier own and created more backstory, her attitude without even discussing it with kirkman. I believe kirkman had the novel idea, and who lily was and her backstory mapped out in his head before this game ever came out or was thought of.

[Vainamoinen]

It is stated in the "Playing Dead" videos that Kirkman had the final say concerning story developments in the game. They've run their ideas by him. The idea that the author of the comic series did not know that Telltale was working on something he himself wanted to detail in his world is hardly possible.

Somehow I don't believe that Kirkman would assassinate Telltale by quickdrawing this novel though - heck, it's in his definite interest that people like the game and that it is a worthy addition to his franchise!

[Ja1862]

Originally Posted by Vainamoinen

It is stated in the "Playing Dead" videos that Kirkman had the final say concerning story developments in the game. They've run their ideas by him. The idea that the author of the comic series did not know that Telltale was working on something he himself wanted to detail in his world is hardly possible.

Somehow I don't believe that Kirkman would assassinate Telltale by quickdrawing this novel though - heck, it's in his definite interest that people like the game and that it is a worthy addition to his franchise!

This.
I'm sure telltale did something to piss the big cheese of, thus making him go behind their backs to do his own thing. As we have already seen telltale doesn't have the stuff together and communication is not their strong point.

[KMatt]

Originally Posted by Vainamoinen

It is stated in the "Playing Dead" videos that Kirkman had the final say concerning story developments in the game. They've run their ideas by him. The idea that the author of the comic series did not know that Telltale was working on something he himself wanted to detail in his world is hardly possible.

Somehow I don't believe that Kirkman would assassinate Telltale by quickdrawing this novel though - heck, it's in his definite interest that people like the game and that it is a worthy addition to his franchise!

As mentioned above, Kirkman had final say on story development (it is his franchise after all). So he will have known what TT had in store for Lilly and he would have signed off on it. To then go ahead and create another backstory for Lilly seems a little odd to me. Both of these projects would have been in the works at similar times so either someone in the Skybound offices really screwed up, or Kirkman has decided to distance himself from the game (which would be bonkers because this game is awesome).

We will probably never know what has gone on behind the scenes. Telltale won't be able to say ANYTHING about this publicly, and I doubt Kirkman would even bother us with an answer.

By the way, I've read the book and its ok. Not great, just ok.

[Zhombre]

one thing i dont understand why this bothers everyone so much. Lily was a character in 4 pages of the comic book. 4. she had like a total of 6 frames in it, although having a large impact on rick, in the big scheme of things the action itself was relevant, not the person who did it.

Also i remember from all the talking dead interviews and interviews from the beginning that it was hinted that it was lily from the comics, not that it was in fact, THIS IS LILY. THIS IS HER ORIGIN STORY. I dont understand whats so wrong about having a second lily that exists simultaneously in the walking dead universe anyways, whats so terrible about Kirkman releasing a seperate book about his woodbury characters (including that lily)? It actually doesnt change canon of the series whatsoever, it just upsets people here because they wanted Lily from twd game to be that same character. A more likely thing that happened was it was kept in the air in development as a marketing ploy- that kirkman decided after awhile that he wanted to do her origin story and thats why it was never made concrete on telltale getting the rights to her origin story. I think its pretty cool that they had 2 main characters in the first episode and you got some brief backstory elements before rick grimes... that tell tale ultimately got to piece together with comic canon.

[bdawgnit1785]

Originally Posted by Zhombre

one thing i dont understand why this bothers everyone so much. Lily was a character in 4 pages of the comic book. 4. she had like a total of 6 frames in it, although having a large impact on rick, in the big scheme of things the action itself was relevant, not the person who did it.

Also i remember from all the talking dead interviews and interviews from the beginning that it was hinted that it was lily from the comics, not that it was in fact, THIS IS LILY. THIS IS HER ORIGIN STORY. I dont understand whats so wrong about having a second lily that exists simultaneously in the walking dead universe anyways, whats so terrible about Kirkman releasing a seperate book about his woodbury characters (including that lily)? It actually doesnt change canon of the series whatsoever, it just upsets people here because they wanted Lily from twd game to be that same character. A more likely thing that happened was it was kept in the air in development as a marketing ploy- that kirkman decided after awhile that he wanted to do her origin story and thats why it was never made concrete on telltale getting the rights to her origin story. I think its pretty cool that they had 2 main characters in the first episode and you got some brief backstory elements before rick grimes... that tell tale ultimately got to piece together with comic canon.

yes you are on point. does our game lilly even look like comics lily??? i mean its been a while but i recognized glenn and hershell no prob but never even thought it could be lily from the comics and i for sure know lilly/remember her and all. I think having 2 in ep 1 (glenn hershell) was enough. Now season 2 can involve maybe Dale and Tyreese. they would hype me up for the whole second season even if they exited just as happened before in ep 1. Lily is from the game and lily is from the comic...might even get a tv lily and we got a book one, some might be 1 person but easier to think theres just more than 1 lily in the ZA

[Vainamoinen]

Originally Posted by Zhombre

one thing i dont understand why this bothers everyone so much. Lily was a character in 4 pages of the comic book. 4. she had like a total of 6 frames in it, although having a large impact on rick, in the big scheme of things the action itself was relevant, not the person who did it.

You could ask the question both to the TWD fans, Telltale AND Kirkman. Why did Telltale pick Lilly? Exactly BECAUSE she was a minor character with a sudden lot of impact on the story. Telltale could essentially invent the character up to this crucial moment. They chose this character BECAUSE the connection to the comics would be intact without much risk of canon fractures.

Originally Posted by Zhombre

[...]it was hinted that it was lily from the comics, not that it was in fact, THIS IS LILY. THIS IS HER ORIGIN STORY. I dont understand whats so wrong about having a second lily that exists simultaneously in the walking dead universe anyways, whats so terrible about Kirkman releasing a seperate book about his woodbury characters (including that lily)? It actually doesnt change canon of the series whatsoever, it just upsets people here because they wanted Lily from twd game to be that same character.

Lilly was advertised as having the connection to the comic books. There is no OTHER Lilly in the comic books, to my knowledge, so it was clear that both Lillys were meant to be the same. The fans' disappointment is built upon their expectation that the attempt to establish 'new canon' would last more than four months. I believe that's not a misguided expectation. No one has expected Kirkman to openly declare Telltale's game canon in his Walking Dead world, but what he does here is to dismiss the idea altogether. I think that was a mistake of his.

The topic of 'canon' is an incredibly diverse one, and there are a lot of perspectives which I don't want to get into yet again (Back to the Future was bad enough ). Just one thing which I hope everyone agrees with: In an expanding franchise or fictional world and especially across all media, fans WANT all proceedings to be coherent and non-conflicting with others so that their own perception of the narrative remains a unity.

Originally Posted by bdawgnit1785

yes you are on point. does our game lilly even look like comics lily??? i

IIRC, Lilly's recognizable head was shown in exactly two panels on, what, 2,000+ comic pages; and Charlie Adlard isn't a very strong artist concerning discerning facial features (in this respect, Tony Moore beat him with every inked line of his). Comic-Lilly is slim and has dark hair like Lilly Caul, that's everything the artist offers us. Also, at least one of those two panels shows her from some kind of a frog perspective for dramatic effect, which Adlard embarrassingly messed up.

[Fabrimuch]

Maybe now that Lilly has been confirmed to not be the one from the comics, she could make a reappearance on the videogame? Maybe for season 2?

[Red Panda]

Originally Posted by Vainamoinen

You could ask the question both to the TWD fans, Telltale AND Kirkman. Why did Telltale pick Lilly? Exactly BECAUSE she was a minor character.

She has a whole novel about her story....

[bdawgnit1785]

Originally Posted by Red Panda

She has a whole novel about her story....

Not in april(proly like months before that even) when she was first picked and agreed upon by TT & Kirkman.

The biggest thing is just why let TT use her and then write a book discrediting the games backstory. Either stupidity or just plain laziness led to the walking dead having one character in three separate mediums having 2 entirely different back stories for no real reason other than Kirkman did what he wanted and he did it after he told TT go ahead and create her backstory.

[mkane24]

Originally Posted by bdawgnit1785

Not in april(proly like months before that even) when she was first picked and agreed upon by TT & Kirkman.

The biggest thing is just why let TT use her and then write a book discrediting the games back story. Either stupidity or just plain laziness led to the walking dead having one character in three separate mediums having 2 entirely different back stories for no real reason other than Kirkman did what he wanted and he did it after he told TT go ahead and create her backstory.

Kirkman has the right to change the characters how he sees fit. It's his property. I'm sure there is some sort of monitory incentive in this decisions, but when it comes down to it this his universe. If you noticed too at no point in the game does anyone ever address her by her last name.


also how is it stupid to have different stories in diffferent mediums? If you're watching the show you'll know its nothing like the comic. So I'm failing to see how that's lazy or stupid

Originally Posted by Red Panda

She has a whole novel about her story....

ITS NOT THE SAME LILY!

[bdawgnit1785]

Originally Posted by mkane24

Kirkman has the right to change the characters how he sees fit. It's his property. I'm sure there is some sort of monitory incentive in this decisions, but when it comes down to it this his universe. If you noticed too at no point in the game does anyone ever address her by her last name.


also how is it stupid to have different stories in diffferent mediums? If you're watching the show you'll know its nothing like the comic. So I'm failing to see how that's lazy or stupid



ITS NOT THE SAME LILY!

If it's a different Lily then it is neither stupid or lazy!!! BUT if she is indeed Lily Caul from the comics just as glenn and hershell were from the comics then it's not just stupid or lazy but somewhat insulting. I had this book come thru amazon but sent it back before it was ever opened and I sure others have done the same or not bothered to look at it at all.

My main point wasn't that Kirkman isn't allowed to do this it's just WHY??

To be 100% honest tho I don't consider the books to be cannon to the comics/ show/ or game. The books are nothing like the TWD universe in that alot of the show/game/comic is all about visuals and books are just words, rise of the governor never felt like TWD to me and the Lily thing just confirms my dislike for the books made by Kirkman/whoever else

[Viner16]

Goddamnit Kirkman/TellTale... we were expecting an explanation, not more confusion...

[magodesky]

Well, I'm going to take a different stance here and say that I'm actually kind of glad that the video game Lilly is a different character than the comic book Lilly. I haven't read the book yet. But to me, one of the most frustrating parts of the entire game was not being able to kill Lilly just because she was protected by plot armor. IMO, there's no one in the whole series that deserved to die more than her. At least now, I can imagine that Lilly got devoured by walkers by the side of the road.

[Gman5852]

Originally Posted by magodesky

Well, I'm going to take a different stance here and say that I'm actually kind of glad that the video game Lilly is a different character than the comic book Lilly. I haven't read the book yet. But to me, one of the most frustrating parts of the entire game was not being able to kill Lilly just because she was protected by plot armor. IMO, there's no one in the whole series that deserved to die more than her. At least now, I can imagine that Lilly got devoured by walkers by the side of the road.

And I picked to let her die on the side of the road, changing my decision for the first time in the series to save her only so she could live for canon's sake(there is no way she would've lived being alone), so it's good to know I can let her die guilt free on my second playthrough

[tonyyy123]

I dont think Kirkman screwed anything up, its his work and he can do as he pleases imo...but so then what happens to the video game Lilly? does she just die in the wilderness?

[Red Panda]

Originally Posted by mkane24

ITS NOT THE SAME LILY!

How do you explain this then?

http://youtu.be/xGPMqElW2nE?t=2m8s

[Mornai]

Originally Posted by Red Panda

How do you explain this then?

http://youtu.be/xGPMqElW2nE?t=2m7s

I believe Telltale originally intended Lilly to be the same as from the comics(as seen by above video and previous ps3 trophy name) but they changed her to a different Lilly after the release of the book which provided a conflicting backstory.

Notice how her last name is never mentioned in the game but is in the comics(or the book?). Maybe they did that as a fail-safe in case anything changed regarding her character, so they could say it was never the same Lilly to begin with.

[Masta23]

Yeah I bought the "Road to Woodbury" this week and it really bothered me that Lilly's backstory was changed. Now it feels like it's a completely different Lilly than the game, even though it was supposed to be the same one. If they knew that Lilly would have conflicting backstories then surely Kirkman should have communicated more with Telltale and Jay Bonansinga so this didn't happen.