The Case Against Kenny

[Ninnuendo]

Ep 1 - He abandons Shawn, literally runs off, even though his child is safe

Ep 2 - He suggests you might be useful at lockpicking because you're "urban"

Ep 2 - He kills Larry as you're trying to save him

Ep 2 - He tells you he'll back you up handling Danny St John, instead he leaves you to die

Ep 3 - He causes a massive argument at the motel over leaving and is the root cause of the paranoia that leads to Carley, Duck and Katjaa dying.

Ep 3 - He once again leaves you to die as you're trapped under a door

Ep 3 - He drops you while trying to get on the truck

Ep 3 - He fucks you over by blabbing about the girl you kill/leave to die infront of Clem

Ep 3 - He tells you your criminal past will be a factor in getting a place on his boat

Ep 3 - He tells you to leave Lilly behind to die, both at the motel and on the road

Ep 4 - He drops you again when trying to escape up the fire escape.

Ep 4 - He wills you to let Ben die

Ep 4 - He refuses to help save Clem

He stands accused of hypocrisy, selfishness, racism, murder, alcoholism, cowardice, carelessness, trouble making, disloyalty and of being judgemental and uncaring.
Kenny defenders, make your case for the accused because I'd gladly use him as a zombie bait given his charge sheet.

[That1Guy]

As much as I hate him, we can't just kill him off as he's the only one that can drive a boat.

[Ninnuendo]

It's a boat, not a plane, I'll work it out. Chuck him overboard

[TheNNerdGamer]

He is not a total bastard.
Larry's death is better than having him around
having Lilly around makes more deaths.
shawn dies anyways so who cares.
he refuses to save clem because you've been a bastard to him.
this is why all the Lilly lovers are pissed.
Kenny is great and does not ration food like someone does.

[Wrighty]

This is a post which I shall be constantly editing because TT keeps logging be out and deleting my saved stuff so bear with me

With Shawn, for all Kenny knew the farm was falling and zombies were approaching from all sides. His reaction to when his family is in danger is to grab em and GTFO, he's sure as hell not going to leave them alone to help someone else. I understand and forgive this and so should you.

His racist remark seems to show a lack of a proper education and something he grew up with in Florida. It doesn't seem offensive and its not like he treats Lee badly or impolitely so I don't really see why you would be so offended.

If you help Larry, you put Duck and Katjaa of risk of a slow and extremely horrible death, being eaten slowly and picked apart by cannibals. Not to mention Kenny's own and everyone else's lives but that probably means less to Kenny. And you do it for some old bastard who punched you after you got him medicine and who is a general dick to everyone. I don't blame Ken for taking the initiative and doing what you couldn't.

Less leave you to die and more doesn't charge a man with a gun. Again I don't blame him. You put Larry above his family, and risked them getting horrible deaths. Not to mention above Kenny who saved your life when Larry tried to kill you.

I refer to my previous point.

Kenny was obviously right about leaving though. The bandits were clearly attacking constantly and when they stopped, it's clear they were planning something. If they had taken Kenny's advice, Duck and Katjaa and Carely would still be alive. The paranoia was about the traitor givin supplies anyway so you are just wrong.

You blame a guy who was recently shot for accidentally dropping you? Nice

Was this in ep 3? I can't exactly remember but I don't recall Clem hearing about the girl.

Well of course it makes a decision. If you have to choose between convicted murderer and normal person to take on the boat, of course you will choose the normal guy. He would be stupid or lying to just say "Aw that's fine. That's not going to affect my decision on who gets left behind, it doesn't even matter" You should be grateful for the honesty. He told my Lee something different though.

Doing so at both time made sense. At the motel, zombies and bandits were approaching and it was chaos. The group is sitting in a vulnerable RV and they had to leave ASAP. Better one die than the RV getting damaged and they all die. On the road, Lilly had just freaking shot Carely for no good reason. She ha clearly gone crazy and was now a loose cannon. He was proved right when you take her and she steals the RV later on aswell.

The guy was shot, what do ya expect? Blaming him for that makes you look mean.

Well duh! Of course he wants you to kill Ben, he just found out that he was indirectly responsible for his family's death. And we know the family is the thing he cared about most in the world. He hasn't even recovered from the tragedy yet, they died pretty recently. Im surprised he never just shot Ben to be honest.

He refuses to help you because all of the above.

Ok, I did my best to address all of you're points. I gotta go to bed, so if another Pro-Kenny can fight his corner, I would really appreciate it.

[Fabrimuch]

As much as I hate Kenny, I think it´s a little unfair to list him dropping you as a case against him. He didn´t do it on purpose, he had been shot a week earlier and his arm was still weak.

[Ninnuendo]

Originally Posted by TheNNerdGamer

He is not a total bastard.

He pretty much is

Originally Posted by TheNNerdGamer

Larry's death is better than having him around

Kenny smashed his head in, infront of his daughter and a small child. He didn't even tell Clem to turn away. How difficult would it have been to wait 20 seconds and then crush him if he's a walker? It was a prick move of someone who can't take orders.

Originally Posted by TheNNerdGamer

having Lilly around makes more deaths.

Whose fault is that?

Originally Posted by TheNNerdGamer

shawn dies anyways so who cares.

Shawn dies because Kenny doesn't help

Originally Posted by TheNNerdGamer

he refuses to save clem because you've been a bastard to him.

I saved his child, saved him from the meatlocker, fed his family, shot his zombie child, stopped him from being bit at the start of Ep 4. He's an ungrateful prick

[Viner16]

Screw Kenny >

[TheNNerdGamer]

Originally Posted by Ninnuendo

He pretty much is



Kenny smashed his head in, infront of his daughter and a small child. He didn't even tell Clem to turn away. How difficult would it have been to wait 20 seconds and then crush him if he's a walker? It was a prick move of someone who can't take orders.



Whose fault is that?



Shawn dies because Kenny doesn't help



I saved his child, saved him from the meatlocker, fed his family, shot his zombie child, stopped him from being bit at the start of Ep 4. He's an ungrateful prick

it depends if you side with Lilly all the time.
killing Larry has a huge impact on Kenny.
if you kill larry, it doesn't matter to clem if you tell her you couldn't take the zombie risk.
you could calm kenny down at the train instead of fighting him.
shooting duck is helping Kenny so doesn't affect kenny unless you let kenny shoot him.
in ep.1 you can tell him to punch larry.
there are a few more things for him to give you the bro speech and help clem.

[Ninnuendo]

Originally Posted by TheNNerdGamer

it depends if you side with Lilly all the time.
killing Larry has a huge impact on Kenny.
if you kill larry, it doesn't matter to clem if you tell her you couldn't take the zombie risk

Up until the meat locker I backed him over Larry Vs Duck, I played peacemaker in the Leave/Don't Leave argument, I fed him and his child. His "gratitude" was to completely ignore the decision I made to help Larry, smash in Larrys head infront of a child and then leave me for dead against Danny St John. The man has no loyalty whatsoever.

I should have added a poll to this thread.

[TheNNerdGamer]

Originally Posted by Ninnuendo

Up until the meat locker I backed him over Larry Vs Duck, I played peacemaker in the Leave/Don't Leave argument, I fed him and his child. His "gratitude" was to completely ignore the decision I made to help Larry, smash in Larrys head infront of a child and then leave me for dead against Danny St John. The man has no loyalty whatsoever.

I should have added a poll to this thread.

in the end he could make you a bro speech if you sided with him a 90%.
Larry's death has an impact of 40%

[Rock114]

Kenny is my bro, through and through. He told me that Clem and I WERE his family, even when I hid the bite and said I'd go alone. He literally said "No dice partner, but I'm not letting you do this alone".

Kenny panicked. He admits as much if you tried to save Shawn instead of Duck, and asks for forgiveness. Should we demonize someone for not always being Superman? He still blames himself for Shawn's death three months later.

The "urban" comment wasn't meant to be racist or offensive. He is ignorant, not racist. He probably truly thought that Lee could do it because he was RAISED to think like that. He wasn't trying to insult Lee, and he apologizes immediately when Lee is offended.

He thought Larry was about to turn. That would ahve resulted in both Lilly and Lee being bitten, as well as possible he and Clementine being killed. Carley/Doug and Ben would have no idea what they were walking into, and would have died along with Kat and Duck because everyone in the meat lcoker had been killed by Larry. Was Larry actually turning into a walker? We don't know. While it might be possible that Kenny killed a man about to be revived, there is an EQUAL chance that he saved the ENTIRE group, including Lee and Clementine.

That was a dick move on his part, no arguement there. But if you helped him with Larry he will save your life, like he saved mine.

He wanted to leave because A) Macon was running out of supplies, and B) a large group of heavily armed bandits was attacking the motel. In his words: "There are enough arrows sticking out of that wall for us to dry our shirts on". It was only a matter of time until the bandits killed someone. Lilly's paranoia was caused by Ben stealing supplies, but Kenny did push her to the brink with killing Larry (which, again, MAY have been the right thing to do).

He didn't leave me under the door. He ran back as soon as he saw what happened and helped me push the door off.

He got shot in the side at close range. He's not invincible.

That's Kenny being Kenny. He is either pissed because you shot the girl, or wants everyone to congradulate you for leaving her and getting more supplies. Even though I shot her, he still saved me when the door fell on me.

He never said that to me. He actually said that my criminal past didn't matter, and that I didn't owe ANYBODY an explanation. Cause he's my friend. And actually, why SHOULDN'T Lee murdering a man before the walkers be a factor? If Lee killed before, there's every possibility he will kill again. I'd do the same thing.

He says that at the motel because the place is being overrun by bandits and walkers. Because the group didn't get out of there fast enough, Duck got bitten. He says it on the side of the road because Lilly just MURDERED another member of the group in cold blood, with no evidence against them. Say what you will, but Kenny had far more reason for dropping the salt-lick on Larry than Lilly did to pull that trigger.

Again, Episode 4 takes place only 12 hours after 3 ends. He was shot in the side at close range a little over a week ago.

Ben's deal with the bandits led them to attack, which drew walkers to the motel, which resulted in Duck being bitten. Duck being bitten resulted in Katjaa commiting suicide. Ben's deal caused Duck to get bitten and Katjaa to commit suicide. Ep4 happens 12 hours after Ep3 ends. Kat and Duck have literally been dead for a little over 24 hours when Ben, after putting them all in danger AGAIN, confesses with walkers beating down the door. If you saw the chance to let the person who killed your entire family die, one day after it happened, wouldn't you take it?

He came to save Clem in my game. His exact words were "You can Clem are the only family I have left. Bitten or not, I'm with you to the end".

Many of your "charges" only occur if certain actions are taken at certain points, and some are unfounded completely (racism and alcoholism). He's ignorant, not racist. He began drinking after finding out that the boat, his only goal after his family died, was gone. On top of finding that out only 1 day after his wife and child both died in front of his eyes. Are you forgetting who picked you up off the floor in the pharmacy? In episode 1, when Larry tried to kill you? That was Kenny. And he does it even if you save Shawn and side with Larry in the argument.

[TheNNerdGamer]

Originally Posted by Rock114

Kenny is my bro, through and through. He told me that Clem and I WERE his family, even when I hid the bite and said I'd go alone. He literally said "No dice partner, but I'm not letting you do this alone".

Kenny panicked. He admits as much if you tried to save Shawn instead of Duck, and asks for forgiveness. Should we demonize someone for not always being Superman? He still blames himself for Shawn's death three months later.

The "urban" comment wasn't meant to be racist or offensive. He is ignorant, not racist. He probably truly thought that Lee could do it because he was RAISED to think like that. He wasn't trying to insult Lee, and he apologizes immediately when Lee is offended.

He thought Larry was about to turn. That would ahve resulted in both Lilly and Lee being bitten, as well as possible he and Clementine being killed. Carley/Doug and Ben would have no idea what they were walking into, and would have died along with Kat and Duck because everyone in the meat lcoker had been killed by Larry. Was Larry actually turning into a walker? We don't know. While it might be possible that Kenny killed a man about to be revived, there is an EQUAL chance that he saved the ENTIRE group, including Lee and Clementine.

That was a dick move on his part, no arguement there. But if you helped him with Larry he will save your life, like he saved mine.

He wanted to leave because A) Macon was running out of supplies, and B) a large group of heavily armed bandits was attacking the motel. In his words: "There are enough arrows sticking out of that wall for us to dry our shirts on". It was only a matter of time until the bandits killed someone. Lilly's paranoia was caused by Ben stealing supplies, but Kenny did push her to the brink with killing Larry (which, again, MAY have been the right thing to do).

He didn't leave me under the door. He ran back as soon as he saw what happened and helped me push the door off.

He got shot in the side at close range. He's not invincible.

That's Kenny being Kenny. He is either pissed because you shot the girl, or wants everyone to congradulate you for leaving her and getting more supplies. Even though I shot her, he still saved me when the door fell on me.

He never said that to me. He actually said that my criminal past didn't matter, and that I didn't owe ANYBODY an explanation. Cause he's my friend. And actually, why SHOULDN'T Lee murdering a man before the walkers be a factor? If Lee killed before, there's every possibility he will kill again. I'd do the same thing.

He says that at the motel because the place is being overrun by bandits and walkers. Because the group didn't get out of there fast enough, Duck got bitten. He says it on the side of the road because Lilly just MURDERED another member of the group in cold blood, with no evidence against them. Say what you will, but Kenny had far more reason for dropping the salt-lick on Larry than Lilly did to pull that trigger.

Again, Episode 4 takes place only 12 hours after 3 ends. He was shot in the side at close range a little over a week ago.

Ben's deal with the bandits led them to attack, which drew walkers to the motel, which resulted in Duck being bitten. Duck being bitten resulted in Katjaa commiting suicide. Ben's deal caused Duck to get bitten and Katjaa to commit suicide. Ep4 happens 12 hours after Ep3 ends. Kat and Duck have literally been dead for a little over 24 hours when Ben, after putting them all in danger AGAIN, confesses with walkers beating down the door. If you saw the chance to let the person who killed your entire family die, one day after it happened, wouldn't you take it?

He came to save Clem in my game. His exact words were "You can Clem are the only family I have left. Bitten or not, I'm with you to the end".

Many of your "charges" only occur if certain actions are taken at certain points, and some are unfounded completely (racism and alcoholism). He's ignorant, not racist. He began drinking after finding out that the boat, his only goal after his family died, was gone. On top of finding that out only 1 day after his wife and child both died in front of his eyes. Are you forgetting who picked you up off the floor in the pharmacy? In episode 1, when Larry tried to kill you? That was Kenny. And he does it even if you save Shawn and side with Larry in the argument.

you could write a book :P
Kenny is an awesome guy.
one of the most probable reasons this threat was created is for the Lilly lovers.
there is no way that I could explain this at all.

[slough]

^^ All of that, especially that Kenny had really good reasons for dropping the salt lick.

Kenny's there for you if you're there for him. He's not a perfect person, but his flaws make him an interesting character. Yeah he's said some racist stuff, but honestly I thought Larry was far more racist for constantly calling Lee "boy". Yeah, he's had some cowardly and petty moments depending on your actions, but who hasn't? Every character reacts to you differently depending on how you treated them.

Except for Carley and Doug apparently.

P.S. I also really love Lilly, she's probably my favorite female character. Just wanted to say that.

[trd84]

if Lee listened to kenny at the motel and left Lily, Doug/Carley would be alive.

[Gman5852]

Originally Posted by TheNNerdGamer

He is not a total bastard.

He told me I could go die on my own because I decided not to murder a man who was having a heart attack

Larry's death is better than having him around

For Lee yes, no one else though. Larry was annoying, but he was strong and pulled his weight.

having Lilly around makes more deaths.

Lilly only killed because of Kenny.

shawn dies anyways so who cares.

Because of Kenny. The only reason Shaun died for me was because Kenny left us like the coward he is.

he refuses to save clem because you've been a bastard to him.

"You've been a bastard to me, so I'm going to let an 8 year old girl be kidnapped at the hands of some guy who could be a rapist for all we know." Yeah, that TOTALLY is a nice guy attitude right there!

this is why all the Lilly lovers are pissed.

Because Kenny murdered her dad and caused her to go nuts?

Kenny is great and does not ration food like someone does.

Wow. Do you even know what rationing food does? It allows us to LIVE by having food LAST! To call Kenny great by shortening our food supply is just pure fanboyism. Just like the Carly nutjobs.

[IndigoHawk]

You can't really have a case for/against Kenny, since he does different things in different playthroughs.

When Kenny's at his lowest, he's a pretty terrible person. He kills people who might not be threats, leaves people to die, murders people for revenge, abandons little girls to kidnappers, and he only gets along or cares about people when they do what he wants how he wants.

At his best, he saves people when no one else will, makes tough decisions to protect the group, keeps the group going with purpose, and becomes family with strangers, loyal to the end.

To properly judge Kenny, you'd have to look at whether Kenny at his worst seems worse than other people would react, which is impossible to know. Everyone in TWD has betrayed each other, lied, and done awful things. If other people had as much to lose as Kenny and had lost as much, would they be any different?

So, I think people just have their opinions, not really any evidence. However, I think the "true" Kenny is self serving, and that he's at best conditionally loyal as long as people keep paying their dues. Kenny doesn't have compassion for others. He only cares about his own. If you get him to accept you, he'll back you up, but it's conditional. You'll always be an outsider, and he'll always be willing to betray you if it would help his family. For example, if the bandits had approached the motel and demanded that the group hand over one of their people to be a slave in exchange for being left alone, Kenny would have wanted to do it, so long as it wasn't his family.

Kenny is the kind of guy who wants to feel like he's forced into doing bad things, like when he killed Larry. Or like when he takes the supplies from the car, because that's what you have to do to survive. He's perfectly willing to do bad things; he just needs a pretext so that he doesn't have to feel responsible or face his own lack of moral compass. This is why the confrontation with Ben is so important. As Kenny moves from being forced to do bad things to doing them without pretense, he's becoming more of a monster, more of what he truly is.

[KingOfTheDead]

Letting you fall doesn't count

[Perfect_Cell]

Originally Posted by Ninnuendo

Ep 1 - He abandons Shawn, literally runs off, even though his child is safe
Fair
Ep 2 - He suggests you might be useful at lockpicking because you're "urban"
Fair
Ep 2 - He kills Larry as you're trying to save him
I personally helped him
Ep 2 - He tells you he'll back you up handling Danny St John, instead he leaves you to die
He helped me
Ep 3 - He causes a massive argument at the motel over leaving and is the root cause of the paranoia that leads to Carley, Duck and Katjaa dying.
He wants whats best for his family
Ep 3 - He once again leaves you to die as you're trapped under a door
He helped me
Ep 3 - He drops you while trying to get on the truck
He was injured?
Ep 3 - He fucks you over by blabbing about the girl you kill/leave to die infront of Clem
You're saying he is a bastard but you left a helpless girl to die a horrible death
Ep 3 - He tells you your criminal past will be a factor in getting a place on his boat
He told me my criminal past was fine with him
Ep 3 - He tells you to leave Lilly behind to die, both at the motel and on the road
Fair decision to make against a mentally unstable girl who just shot someone
Ep 4 - He drops you again when trying to escape up the fire escape.
Fair
Ep 4 - He wills you to let Ben die
Fair
Ep 4 - He refuses to help save Clem
Speak for yourself
Congratulations on showing us how depending on how you talk to people, they respond. Shocking how if you didn't help duck or back him with the Larry thing maybe he doesn't want to help you??? Have you considered there is more to Kenny than your individual playthrough. Yes Kenny is perfect, he makes mistakes but in the end he wanted whats best for his family and if you are nice enough to him you and clem are almost like extended family. So don't go starting a Kenny hate thread without getting all the points of view first
.

Yeah

[TWDFTW]

Kenny is different in everyone's play through, so don't go round saying to people that Kenny is a bro, because in someone else's play through he might be an all out fucking dick head.

In my game, Kenny is really nice, but if I didn't side with him for once, he just decides to be a dick head.

There is no way you can judge Kenny, because he is different to everyone.