Ben and the 66ers

[TWDFTW]

Originally Posted by Ghositex

If its not real... Why even bothering discussing about it? Because we discuss about what we would do in real life, if we were in Lee's place. I never called -you- a sick murderer, that was meant to the people who would kill Ben because they didn't like him in an actual ZA.
Edit: apparently I did call you a sick murderer directly. I still meant the other people, anyway

Anyhow, you're the one that started complaining about "the 66ers" like they saved Ben "in real life". You're pretty much arguing against yourself...

Okay, I see your side of the argument.

This is the last comment I am going to write to you on this thread, and on the thread entirely...bye

[TheNNerdGamer]

Originally Posted by twdftw

okay, i see your side of the argument.

This is the last comment i am going to write to you on this thread, and on the thread entirely...bye

lolz

[KabutoGodTier420]

This kid (Ben) deserves the Mark-treatment.

[BlackPaladin]

Originally Posted by KabutoGodTier420

This kid (Ben) deserves the Mark-treatment.

You legitimately want ben's meat to be inside of you?
Gross dude.

[Zeruis]

Yeah, I saved Ben. I really hope he plays a big part in episode 5, for people who saved him. But really, it seems the only thing that Telltale will do is make him sacrifice himself to the horde, allowing Lee and the others to escape. Those who didn't save Ben will have to shoot a few more zombies, first person style.

[Ninnuendo]

There's just no point in killing (or letting) Ben die. All the mistakes he has made are in the past, he's not a bad kid, just a bit dumb. Letting him die is essentially executing him because you believe he'll fuck things up, it's the Crawford Method.

I think I might turn this into a poll because it's an interesting idea.

[Alchera7]

New to the forums; read this entire thread and registered so I could post my opinion about this, and explain how I handled Ben.

At first I gave Ben a chance just like I did with anyone new I met in the game, but as time went on all of his mistakes were costing the lives of those I cared about most. I've got a strong emotional connection with Clementine, and I'm constantly thinking about her safety in the game. Ben was a threat to her; and he proved that in Savannah too many times over and over again.

Ben; proving himself be an extreme threat, I had no other choice but to somehow get him to leave the group. I couldn't kill him because to me thats only a last resort. So up in that bell tower when he looked into Lee's eyes and asked him to be dropped, it was because of GOOD reason; it was a win-win solution, he wanted to die (what I HOPE was because he finally realized what a detriment he was to the group), and I wanted him far from my friends.

AFTER dropping him though I did feel sad, because I could of chose to save him, and dealt with him later, but I just didn't want to risk him endangering the lives of my friends again, and the possibility of losing Clementine, because of him.

If I would of had it my way I would of left Ben behind with the Doctor's people. He would of been better off there being taken care of, instead of continuing to take on roles he wasn't even capable of doing.

It was a tough decision. But it's a big sigh of relief not having to worry about him causing another senseless death.

[Phoenix VII]

^What he said. I never really hated Ben (came close to at Crawford though) but the game just wouldn't let me get rid of him any other way and as long as Ben's around it's not the walkers or radio-dude I'm thinking about, it's what's the next catastrophe courtesy of Disaster Ben going to be. In the end, Ben won my respect when he told me to let go, but on the other hand it felt like a huge burden was lifted off my shoulders.

Welcome to the forums, btw.

[Perfect_Cell]

I dropped him. Boo, look at me some kind of horrible crawford incarnate, culling the weak for the sake of the rest. Aren't i just horrible.

GIVE ME A BREAK. How dare I drop a suicidal kid who asked to be dropped after accepting he was a detriment to the group. What the question should be is how could you save someone who has clearly given up on life and just doesn't want to be there anymore. It shouldn't even be your decision. Ben asked to be dropped.

[TheNNerdGamer]

Originally Posted by Perfect_Cell

I dropped him. Boo, look at me some kind of horrible crawford incarnate, culling the weak for the sake of the rest. Aren't i just horrible.

GIVE ME A BREAK. How dare I drop a suicidal kid who asked to be dropped after accepting he was a detriment to the group. What the question should be is how could you save someone who has clearly given up on life and just doesn't want to be there anymore. It shouldn't even be your decision. Ben asked to be dropped.

Larry: "whoah calm down RAMBO"

[IndigoHawk]

Originally Posted by Perfect_Cell

I dropped him. Boo, look at me some kind of horrible crawford incarnate, culling the weak for the sake of the rest. Aren't i just horrible.

GIVE ME A BREAK. How dare I drop a suicidal kid who asked to be dropped after accepting he was a detriment to the group. What the question should be is how could you save someone who has clearly given up on life and just doesn't want to be there anymore. It shouldn't even be your decision. Ben asked to be dropped.

If you knew Ben was suicidal, then you should have saved him.

Suicidal people aren't in the right mind to decide to live or die. Learn about suicidal impulses and what they do to the brain. Suicidal people are responding to brain chemistry telling them that they must die, not making a choice.

http://www.suicide.org/suicide-is-not-a-choice.html

People repeatedly use Ben's request as justification for killing him, but Ben's request was not noble or selfless; it was the anguish of a suicidal mind. He needed help.

Learn about suicide. You might save a life someday.

[Grimfango]

I dropped Ben like a sack of potatoes, and as I did I felt overwhelmed with remorse! I was at least hoping the fall would kill him, but no, because of me he was eaten alive. Oops!

I've since tried to convince myself that what I did was OK. He was a HUGE risk. The first time we met him, he basically got his teacher and friend killed, he then caused the death of Katjaa and duck (Because he betrayed the group) Doug (Because he lied and Doug jumped in front of Lilly's bullet) Lilly (Yes Lilly was in the wrong and technically I'm the one that killed her by leaving her behind, we wouldn't have been in that situation had he not had betrayed the group though) Chuck (Because he abandoned Clem and Chuck stepped up) Vernon's gal friend, and nearly the rest of us too. He probably would have got more of us killed at some point (That's what I keep telling myself anyway)

With hindsight, I probably should have saved him and given him ANOTHER chance to redeem himself. I thought it would put the rest of the group at risk though, and he was being his usual useless self by making no effort to climb up as I held him.

Yes Clem is a little mad, I sweet talked her though so I'm sure she'll get over it!

[Rock114]

How do we know he's actually suicidal? It could be he just didn't want to take the risk of someone dying because Lee took the time to pull him up. He's actually begging for Lee to save him when he gets grabbed by Oberson, but when he's hanging over the edge he says "Go on without me." If he had wanted me to let Oberson drag him down, it wouldn've seemed suicidal to me. But when he tells me to get the group out and leave him behind so everyone else can live? That's not suicide to me, that's heroism.

[IndigoHawk]

Originally Posted by Rock114

How do we know he's actually suicidal? It could be he just didn't want to take the risk of someone dying because Lee took the time to pull him up. He's actually begging for Lee to save him when he gets grabbed by Oberson, but when he's hanging over the edge he says "Go on without me." If he had wanted me to let Oberson drag him down, it wouldn've seemed suicidal to me. But when he tells me to get the group out and leave him behind so everyone else can live? That's not suicide to me, that's heroism.

If you pull Ben up, he whimpers "why?" He clearly didn't want to live, which means he was suicidal. He was using going out as a hero to convince Lee to drop him, when what Ben really thought was that everyone would be better off without him. On top of the regular stress, depression, loss, and guilt Ben deals with, he just had a massive blow where someone he respects and likes (Kenny) just told him how much he hates him and blames him for everything. Ben wanted to escape the extreme emotional pain he was experiencing, and his brain told him that death was the way to do it.

Regardless, I agree that there is room for interpretation in that scene based on how Ben responds to various threats in quick succession. It's hard to say if the writing was bad, if Ben was rapidly changing his mind, or exactly what was driving him.

If you thought Ben was being a hero and agreed with his assessment that there wasn't enough time to save him, then you can justify dropping him.

If you thought Ben was suicidal, then you should not dropped him based on what he was saying. You still could have dropped him, but not for that reason.