Will Ben Screw Up Again In Episode 5?

[ZacTB]

No way, it will be a kick in the teeth to people who game him... what a 3rd chance? And let him live. I think he will do some heroic sacrifice to redeem himself, or maybe not even die at all in Episode 5 if you save him. He is gonna do something useful though, you can tell.

[multicolt]

its not if he will screw up again its how will he screw things up this time.

[dankirk]

Since he could have died in Ep4, he will surely die in Ep5.

[bdawgnit1785]

its not if he will screw up again, its how *bad* will he screw things up this time.

i had to fix it

[Jokieman]

Originally Posted by xXNinjaScoreXx

Everyone came with me (Including Ben) and I was wondering, would Ben screw you over like how he did from...the beginning of time, (I like Ben but his derpyness is off the charts) or would he somehow magically with the help of invisible mind pixies actually help you? (This is only for those who brought Ben with them at the end of Episode 4)

If/when he does, and I have the opportunity then he is dead. I still really regret not having the choice to kick him from the group back before Lilly killed Carley.

What I do think though is this: You could take anyone with you. This means Episode 5, anyone you took with you will more than likely be cannon fodder. The only possibility for surviving will be left with Clem (of those who did not leave the group before the end of Episode 4).

I could be wrong but one way or another the game is going to end the same for everyone. The only way to make it work is if everyone you could CHOOSE to bring with you dies or disappears BEFORE the end. other possibilities would create too much work for TellTale to finish the game before January.

[Evinshir]

Firstly, I don't think Ben is going to screw up. I think he might be goofy and make a minor mistake or two - but when things are at their worst, I expect he'll pull through.

My belief is that the writers are making his storyline about him learning to become responsible and a stronger person.

I don't think you can make any predictions that say everyone dies. The promise has always been that by the final chapter different players are going to have different experiences. I think the possible endings are going to be tied to which group of characters you have by the end.

I am expecting a difficult "who is still going to be on the boat" decision. But the "everyone is cannon fodder" thing, I don't believe that will be the case.

[Milosuperspesh]

Originally Posted by Evinshir

Firstly, I don't think Ben is going to screw up. I think he might be goofy and make a minor mistake or two - but when things are at their worst, I expect he'll pull through. minor mistakes that cost lives ?

My belief is that the writers are making his storyline about him learning to become responsible and a stronger person.. yeah but thats a bit of a copout, suddenly he grows up ? out of thin air from mind pixies ? (lol at ninja)
I don't think you can make any predictions that say everyone dies. The promise has always been that by the final chapter different players are going to have different experiences. I think the possible endings are going to be tied to which group of characters you have by the end.

ttg also said in the live playing dead, the story / end is fixed no changing. it's the journey and who lee is at the end that changes.

simple fact a leopard doesn't change it's spots..

[Evinshir]

Originally Posted by Milosuperspesh

simple fact a leopard doesn't change it's spots..

That's not a fact. That's an idiom. And it's an old-fashioned one that doesn't hold up to factual scrutiny of human dynamism.

Ben is a good person, with good intentions and I believe that in Episode 5 he will step up to the plate. I also believe that if TTG *really* wanted to screw with players, they would have his survival lead to a better ultimate outcome.

[xXNinjaScoreXx]

When I said if Ben will screw up, what I really meant was what kind of threat will he lay upon the group ;D
(Invisible Mind Pixies ARE In Fact Real)

[Milosuperspesh]

Originally Posted by Evinshir

That's not a fact. That's an idiom. And it's an old-fashioned one that doesn't hold up to factual scrutiny of human dynamism.

Ben is a good person, with good intentions and I believe that in Episode 5 he will step up to the plate. I also believe that if TTG *really* wanted to screw with players, they would have his survival lead to a better ultimate outcome.

right so by your logic

a young naive boy, who believes strangers with no proof, steals and lies to those who are kind to him and saved him from zombies. which is the catalyst for 1 death a suicide and the abandonment of a defendable position ?

who then questions why he isn't being trusted, who asks for more responcibility, after abandoning clem surrounded by walkers, which then led to chucks death ?

then blames it on someone else or expects others to take up the slack when it's clear no one else is going to, so then decides to leave 'clem' on her own knowing full well the consequences (if as lee we warn him)

and then has the 'balls' to give that same person a scowl with more bad attitude cos they are giving him a bollocking cos he once again failed to do what was asked.

then decides to remove a hatchet from a door which thusly releases the walkers, causing another death, decided to keep secrets for a short time before he doesn't like the guilt anymore, like a total wimp and coward decided to unload his crap just as the walkers surround them ??!

seriously ? you expect him to turn around and get with the programme ?

sorry but i ain't buying your bullshit.

[Evinshir]

What BS?

Just because I'm capable of empathising with him and seeing his actions from his perspective rather than from the perspective of someone who is looking back at things after the fact and judging him then?

Firstly - he's a scared kid. Bandits threaten to kill everyone, he does what he can to keep them at bay. Lily and Kenny are behaving like spoiled kids arguing over who gets to be boss - he doesn't think they'll listen to him. He should have gone to Lee - but at that point he hardly knew these people.

Secondly - Lily is freaking bug nuts crazy and threatening to KILL people. He's a scared kid. Nobody knew that Lily was actually going to shoot Carly. That was LILY'S choice. (Which is why I abandoned her. Unlike Ben, Lily can't say she meant to do well. She knowingly took a life and then tried to blame everyone else.)

Thirdly - when surrounded by zombies, it's totally believable that he'd freak out and run. It's a natural response. Clem *is* Lee's responsibility. Why wasn't Lee keeping closer to Clem? It was chaos, and anything could have happened. Sure, it was cowardly - but Kenny's done the same a-hole move and everyone is quick to forgive him.

Fourth - When Clementine was in a safe place and Ben had been asked to help with an injured man. Clem chose to sneak out. Ben had been told to protect Clementine - he had no reason to believe she'd actually sneak out. Clem is to blame for risking her life.

Fifth - when asked to get something to break down the armoury, he found an axe at a door where - at the time - there were no zombies banging on it. For all he knew, they were long gone. Dumb mistake, but Brie's death wasn't because of Ben's actions. Brie died because Kenny chose to also let loose with his grief and guilt, thus forcing the group to stay put with ravening hordes bashing down the door because KENNY was refusing to move and deal with the matter later.

But again - a lot of people are quick to forgive Kenny.

To be blunt - Kenny is a bigger liability. He's unstable, unreliable and irrational. Ben is just naive and a bit dim. Kenny could, and does, turn on the slightest provocation. Ben at least tries to make up for his mistakes and owns up to them.

And I would still save both. Which is probably why they have both ended up in my group at the end of Episode 4.

I think it's a very narrow view to see Ben as just a walking disaster. The reason things have happened the way they have is because of multiple characters screwing up, but Ben is the one that some fans are quick to blame for it all.

[Viser]

I don't see why Ben wouldn't "turn around and get with the programme". Look at everything he's been through on episode 4, everyone wanted to kick him out for his mistakes, and then he has a near-death experience where he actually stops believing in himself and asks Lee to just let him fall to his death and get out of that place, but Lee decides to give him another chance and saves him, you really think that's not capable of changing a person? If not, then I don't know what is. He might not do something super-badass style, but I'm sure he's gonna do something right.

[Evinshir]

Originally Posted by Viser

I don't see why Ben wouldn't "turn around and get with the programme". Look at everything he's been through on episode 4, everyone wanted to kick him out for his mistakes, and then he has a near-death experience where he actually stops believing himself and asks Lee to just let him fall to his death and get out of that place, but Lee decides to give him another chance and saves him, you really think that's not capable of changing a person? If not, then I don't know what is. He might not do something super-badass style, but I'm sure he's gonna do something right.

That's my view too. He's had his trial by fire, and because of Lee and Clementine showing faith in him... he's got good reason to do the best he can.

Some people just like to commit attribution error and assume that once a screw-up, always a screw-up.

[Rock114]

"Hey dude, I killed your wife and kid. Oh, and those walkers out there? That was me too. Where do I sit on the boat?" Yeah, an EXTREMELY slight provocation. What did he think was going to happen when he told Kenny? It's not like anyone expected Kenny to just say "whatever, it's cool" Ben knew EXACTLY what would happen. It WAS his actions that let the walkers in and he CHOSE to tell Kenny at literally the worst possible moment. Not to mention the timing in relation to Kat and Duck's deaths itself, the time the group raiding Crawford literally being about 1 1/2 days later.

His deal with the bandits concerned everyone at the motel. I don't see why he couldn't have told Katjaa, who is extremely level-headed or Lee, who risked his life time and time again to get the very same supplies Ben is stealing. The group could have done something about it if they knew, but his silence led to the group's ignorance, which led to them being taken by surprise, split up during the raid, and Duck being bitten.

I don't blame him for being afraid of Lilly. She and Kenny's argueing DID strain tensions, so I don't blame him for not wanting to say anything to either of them or at the RV scene. And while it WAS Lilly's choice to kill someone, the situation never would have ocurred had he been honest before the raid.

He left Clem even after Lee begged him to help her. I understand panic, but he looked at Clem and willingly left an 8 year old to the walkers so he could escape. Him leaving resulted in Clem nearly dying, which caused Chuck to save her at the cost of his own life.

Ben IS responsible for nearly all the bad things that happened from the beginning of 3. Bad choices compunded by even more bad choices because he tries to make up for being a screw up and a coward. All that being said, he's still a good person. Which is why the minute he said "There's no time, leave me! Get the others out of here!" I immediately forgave him. I know why he did the things he did, but him taking responsibility for his actions is why I respect and forgive him now. The same reason I respect and forgive Kenny for his actions is because I understand why he does what he does, and he took responsibility for them. Ben was willing to die to make things right. Kenny admitted to being the cause of Shawn's death, and decided to face the death of his own son which, in his mind, he caused.

[Milosuperspesh]

it all boils down to one thing

if you save people who have proven to be a liability and they continue to be one.

you're asking for trouble. true to get rid of everyone of any threat level would mean you could be alone but you'd be safer and alive and in the long run better off

imo anyone trying to justify saving ben is kidding themselves and therefore won't survive long.

as for kenny true he's had his moments but in the key difference between kenny and ben is kenny actually thinks before acting even it if was one direction his family then the boat.

nice way to 'try and win' a debate by shifting blame on to another character..

by the same logic, lee has killed 'danny and or andy' or caused the death of mark by suggesting they go to the farm. in that case it was an unforeseen consequence. but ben was oblivious to the obvious dangers of his actions. which isn't the same as he chose to ignore.

[Evinshir]

Way to miss the point.

My point is that you cannot so easily apportion blame as you have. Ben's actions cause issues, but the deaths that followed are the fault of multiple characters for multiple reasons. My point is that wasting time finding someone to blame is a fools errand.

There is no need to justify saving Ben because it is just the right thing to do. Point blank. There is no grey area there.

My point is that whether its Kenny, Larry or Ben - there is no justification for not saving them.

I get that it's easier to think that you are surviving by letting him loose. But as episode 4 showed - that kind of thinking just leads to failure. Crawford failed because of making the mistake of thinking survival is about making unethical decisions "for the greater good."

But that kind of thinking never lasts.

So yeah. You can try to strawman your way through my argument. But it won't change my opinion.

[Milosuperspesh]

Originally Posted by Evinshir

My point is that you cannot so easily apportion blame as you have. Ben's actions cause issues, but the deaths that followed are the fault of multiple characters for multiple reasons. My point is that wasting time finding someone to blame is a fools errand. the lying to the group and stealing ? the hatchet ? ALL BEN


There is no need to justify saving Ben because it is just the right thing to do. Point blank. There is no grey area there. yeah the grey area is thinking he'll improve with no proof he can.

My point is that whether its Kenny, Larry or Ben - there is no justification for not saving them. but there is evidence to say why we shouldn't

I get that it's easier to think that you are surviving by letting him loose. But as episode 4 showed - that kind of thinking just leads to failure. Crawford failed because of making the mistake of thinking survival is about making unethical decisions "for the greater good." crawford failed because one woman decided her baby was more important than everyone else.

i ain't missed your point at all, i am choosing to disagree with it.

MY POINT i am also giving my view on who ben is and that my dear fellow/honey bun is

a huge muthafucking liability.

so the moral of this 'story' is agree to disagree.

good day.

[KingOfTheDead]

Is it that serious its do you think ben will screw up not a debate man

[NicoleRaye]

Will Ben screw up in Ep 5? Oh boy I hope not. Or THAT'S.HIS.ASS!!

[KCohere]

I think he will do his best to help. He wants to make it up to Clementine and to Kenny. I believe in the boy.