Episode 5 Disappointment (vent here) **SPOILERS**

[Evinshir]

Originally Posted by Cerrano

I'm okay that Lee died. I really enjoyed the race against his infection. I do wish there were ways to save Kenny and the others. I would have felt like Lee's sacrifice was worth it. Multiple endings would have been nice. Its kind of a bummer that no matter what choices you make the ending is essentially the same.

Yeah. I think game developers need to really stop and think in this post Mass Effect 3 industry. The big message of the ME3 controversy was that choices and endings are important to players. They want a satisfying ending (which has been a well known fact of storytelling for millennia) and they want their choices to matter.

TTG should have paid more attention to that second one because in gaming satisfaction in the ending is directly tied to player choices having meaning.

In a way Bioware have pretty much made it the case that many players are no longer willing to put up with the illusion of choice. They want multiple endings and for their actions to have a genuine impact on the game's narrative.

[samipod42]

I also didn't like how if you chop your arm off, the exact same stuff happens besides your group making inappropriate amputee jokes. And if they wanted to make a good villain, they should've had Campman be picking off members of your group or doing SOMETHING evil. I think it would've been better if it was revealed he was like a relative to the senator Lee killed or something. I actually thought his story was tragic until he started talking to his wife's severed head. At that point I knew that I shouldn't have felt bad for stealing from him and I should be proud because I nearly killed a complete psycho that day.

[Doctanian]

Originally Posted by DatDude

Doctanian...believe it or not..some people are okay with the choices not meaning much in the end, and all those other flaws you consider flaws.

It's not dickriding..it's called having our OWN OPINION.

If you like it, fine. But I'm sick of people trying to argue me down and then resort to the classic "It's my opinion" copout when I call them on their bullshit. Episode 5 was trash. Clem and Lee's final moments together was the only thing worth buying this episode for. I listed all the plot holes and inconsistencies that made this episode rubbish. And no one has refuted them. Instead they say shit like "Well, I liked it." Okay, that's fine, but it has nothing to do with the fact of why we have such a stupid villain with a Rube Goldberg-like plan.

If you liked it, cool. But don't try to come at me telling me why I should like the episode and then get defensive when I explain to you all the shit wrong with it. That's my problem. That's why I called majority of people on these types of forums dickriders. If you don't classify under that, then don't be offend.

[MaroubraDave]

Originally Posted by Xebioz

Ehm... Again it's not about Lee dying (some of my favorite Heavy Rain endings are where it partly goes to shit). And it isn't about 'click this get branch A' either. If you've played heavy rain you would know that for instance a scene is about you disposing of fingerprints you've left behind in a store. Either you manage it on time, or you are called in by the police changing the next segment of the game for this one character. It's not about having a concrete choice about where the game is going, but that your choices end up CHANGING the story (even if the completely opposite of what you think is going to happen does).

So I think you're misunderstanding what I'm looking for here. Because what I'm looking for is what was advertised as their major selling point.

I totally agree. This game is sold as an interactive story that "adapts to the choices you make", which i guess technically it changes slightly. If you were being honest about it though the STORY doesn't actually adapt it's just some small sections of the dialogue that "adapts"...
For all the "choices" i made, the story would have been the same, same people die, same people live, you go to the same places etc

[DatDude]

Originally Posted by Doctanian

If you like it, fine. But I'm sick of people trying to argue me down and then resort to the classic "It's my opinion" copout when I call them on their bullshit. Episode 5 was trash. Clem and Lee's final moments together was the only thing worth buying this episode for. I listed all the plot holes and inconsistencies that made this episode rubbish. And no one has refuted them. Instead they say shit like "Well, I liked it." Okay, that's fine, but it has nothing to do with the fact of why we have such a stupid villain with a Rube Goldberg-like plan.

If you liked it, cool. But don't try to come at me telling me why I should like the episode and then get defensive when I explain to you all the shit wrong with it. That's my problem. That's why I called majority of people on these types of forums dickriders. If you don't classify under that, then don't be offend.

Sorry you feel that way. There are alot of reasons why I liked episode (i posted this on another forum):

I loved it. The parallelism to the first episode was great and the character interaction was also amazing. And of course, right when Ben redeems himself in the eyes of the group, he bites it. And Kenny too. When it prompted Lee to grab the bust I didn't, but my heart leaped in my chest when Kenny grabbed it. But when he threw it away, I knew that deep down the man cared for Lee. Man Kenny could be a bastard at times, but the second he left, I missed him.

And then we come to Omid and Christa. I really like both of their characters and figured they'd be the great successors to take care of Clem after Lee eventually succumbed. Plus I also noticed their like split versions of Lee, with Christa being black and Omid being the history professor. Okay maybe not so much.

Then we come to the stranger. To be honest, once I saw the station wagon outside, I knew that it'd be the owner inside. But I hated how he kept accusing you of things you did, without even knowing the story behind it. There are always two sides to a story, and he's only getting one. Also I guess I had a sort of loop hole with killing the stranger. I don't think Clem thinks he's dead, because she asked Lee whether or not it'd be okay to leave him. But I learned my lesson from the farmer bros back in episode 2; I wasn't going to kill a human (no matter how fucked up he was) in front of Clem again.

And finally we come to the end. The finale. The goodbye. At this point, I pretty much resigned myself to Lee's death and only looked toward's Clementine's future. Talking her through the escape was great and the sequence with the zombie guard had me in a panic. And when all was said and done and I knew she had to shoot Lee. She already saw her parents turned, and my word I can't believe how well she handled that. I didn't want her to have to see Lee turned as well so I knew there could only be one choice. And I know she'll come out stronger because of it. I made sure that she knew how to get to Omid and Christa, because I figured that telling her to go solo wasn't the right thing. She made it this far with the help of everyone, and if she never trusted any strangers, then she would've never met Lee. Plus by now, I think she's figured out the signs of when someone's riding the crazy train. My final words to her, even though it broke my heart, weren't "I'll miss you," even though I wanted to say that more than anything. But I didn't want this to be any harder than it had to be, so I just told her "Don't be afraid."

Those are my reasons...

I hear why you didn't like the episode..I just don't really care, and your coming as one of those "stop liking what I like" type of people. No offense.

[ieatbrains]

Originally Posted by funyahns

Open forum is it not? Allowed to disagree with each other, its okay.

Open forum yes. Venting thread is made to vent. So if you liked the game why even read their vent coments? To attack them, no?

[Sithdude78]

Complaining about lack of multiple endings umm when were we ever promised more then one ending. This story is mostly about the small things changing and the choices do matter but it wont change the ending that doesn't make these choices not matter i just means that this was Lees path and now its over.

Sides we dont know if these choices really dont matter since they will carry over to season 2 so people are jumping the shark by saying nothing they did mattered. And people who call it poor writing are just butthurt people have always complained about poor writing only and i mean only when things they didnt want to happen occurred calling it poor writing is a way of making you feel better because you didnt get your ways

[Christoaster]

Originally Posted by BlankCanvasDJ

No, the difference is nuance. Telltale has said from the start that your choices would not drastically effect the outcome of the story, they effect the texture of the story, they effect how people behave and how they respond to you and their motivations for the things they do.



That's not lazy writing, that's two completely different ways to get to the same point. It's not a choose-your-own-adventure book. The ending was set in stone from the beginning.

Good points. I feel like the choices don't really matter as in when the ending comes together. I feel like it matters more during the journey and how it is experiences to get to that ending. Which is the main point, and how the game advertises itself as... A *tailored* experience. Meaning, Everyone will have *different* experiences getting to sadly... The same solution.

[IndigoHawk]

I don't know if the finale was that terrible, but I agree with most of the OP points. However, at best, the finale was workmanlike. Everyone knew where it was going; it was just a matter of getting everything done. It was kind of boring.

Other than not being sure who was going to die, we didn't learn much interesting in this episode. Kenny's (and Ben's) death was lame. The Stranger's was good because Clem helped, but otherwise meh. Lee's was expected, but it was handled ok.

The twist with the cancer survivors taking the boat was nonsensical.
The radio guy had no connection to Lee's or Clem's past. He was just some guy. There was no reason for him to be built up as a huge villain, since he was basically nobody.
We found out that the attic kid's parents killed themselves, which was good to know but irrelevant.
Clem's parents were dead, as expected.

I liked when Lee got Clem back and taught her a few more things before dying. That was a good bit. I'm also glad that he could kind of give her a hug, instead of just being a robot.

I liked some of the discussions, like in the attic. However, those discussions also removed more tension between characters. It's almost like having the good and bad guys sit down and talk about their differences. Sure, that's what real people should do, but it doesn't make a good story.

So ... overall ... meh. Maybe the worst episode?

[Doctanian]

Originally Posted by DatDude

I hear why you didn't like the episode..I just don't really care, and your coming as one of those "stop liking what I like" type of people. No offense.

And I hear why you liked the episode. And I could care less as well. As for the backhanded "stop liking what I like" comment, that doesn't even make any sense, dude.

[crash665]

I really enjoyed this game and this episode, but since this seems to be a vent topic, here goes:

1. Couldn't Kenny have just shot Ben in the head and then climbed back up the ladder?
2. The whole episode seemed rushed. It was shorter than the others, and it felt like a lot of stuff was left out. They all seemed to run all over town with little trouble, even though there are thousands of walkers around. Did the group just get around without issues?
3. Did Clementine pull Lee into the store? WTF?

Really, other than that, all was good. I give it a 9/10. Loved the ending. What a damn cliffhanger.

[Evinshir]

Originally Posted by Christoaster

Good points. I feel like the choices don't really matter as in when the ending comes together. I feel like it matters more during the journey and how it is experiences to get to that ending. Which is the main point, and how the game advertises itself as... A *tailored* experience. Meaning, Everyone will have *different* experiences getting to sadly... The same solution.

The problem is that this is counterintuitive to narrative cause and effect - as the first season has shown. The plot has had to get more and more contrived o keep all the threads pointing in the same direction. To the point that we have the Stranger, the most contrived element of the plot, basically waving away all your choices as "it's still all your fault."

The point being, if you are going to allow choices to be made, then you need to accept that your story cannot have a single ending. It's no surprised the audience isn't all unanimously happy. Bioware learned this, Square-Enid learned this - it's not like this is some surprise.

The fact is, regardless of what TTG said about the ending, they created an expectation for many that their choices would matter and trying to go back to "tailored" as a defense is pure semantics.

There are members of the audience now being clear that they wanted those choices to matter more. Hopefully TTG will take that on board and put more effort into doing that with the second season.

At least nobody is screaming for a rewrite of season one's ending.

[HNKenshiro]

After playing (spoiler for other games alert) Red Dead Redemption, LA Noire, Deadlight (presumably) (and possibly some others) where the main character dies, I find this making your main character die thing becoming overdone, cliched, and just a giant big middle finger to the player.

And yes, also short.

[Crusher87]

Originally Posted by IndigoHawk

The radio guy had no connection to Lee's or Clem's past. He was just some guy. There was no reason for him to be built up as a huge villain, since he was basically nobody.

Am I the only one who always has to laugh when reading "Just some guy" after playing episode 1?

Anyway, I disagree on this. I thought the fact that he was a nobody was more surprising than anything story-related could be. Many people suspected he would have some kind of tie to Lee's past, but that only means that it would have been predictable. I personally liked that his hate was driven by one of the choices that seemed irrelevant compared to others during the game, but his explanation made sense. What I did not like however is that he is mad at you no matter what you do. I was hoping that by proving you only did good he would give up on Clementine and commit suicide or something.

However, I agree with most other points in this thread. I didn't dislike everything in this episode, I actually like some scenes as well, but it's true that much is missing to have some kind of conclusion.

[marcu5]

i enjoyed the long dialogue. hope s2 has more of it

that's the only time i've felt like the choices mattered. talking to the group upstairs, and explaining myself to the camp guy

[Ghositex]

I honestly belive episode 5 was epic.. I'm guessing The Walking Dead is suppose to e played by heartless rocks, chrizza

Just kidding... The episode got some little derps, but I don't think it was boring, not at all. Also, even when it was god-damn obvious that Clementine's parents would be dead, I still was shocked the way clementine found out they were dead. As soon as Lee passes out, you don't know what Clementine was going to do (go for her parents, leave lee...).

Going to another point... Of course there was "no tension at all", at this point we just wanted to know what would happen with clementine, making our way to the marsh house impossible would just break that moment of -panic-. I wish the ending cutscene had a little more of tension, but the rest of the episode was just fine.

Lastly... All of those "climbing bits" weren't supposed to be exciting, actually, even with all of those walkers, and the one who almost dropped you off the ladder, I think the point of that scene was just to relax us a little bit lol

[Kitmit13]

- There was constant tension to get to Clem on time and especially with the scene with Ben, trying to help him up when he was hurt. I found it had more tension then most episodes.

- I think Clem didn't fully believe they were alive herself and it somewhat gave her closure to see them dead. As sad as it may be she can now move on and no longer have to worry for them. Besides the fact that she didn't really have any time to get upset over it, especially being surrounded by zombies with a dying Lee.

- Plothole but still no reason to hate the episode :P

- Perhaps thats just you because that guy creeped the crap out of me, especially when he was speaking to his deads wife head in a bag. I honestly loved how they took something I figured to be so unimportant and bit me in the ass with it. When I saw the car outside the hotel I start to squirm because I had stolen from the car and I knew I was going to get hell for it. Really good writing in my opinion.

- Thats good in my opinion it IS based from the same universe, it's good they link back to it.

- Same as above also it's just logical...

- It was used to express the fact that there wasn't much time left for Lee, he couldn't stay bitten for long without becoming weak.

- I don't understand why that is a point, it wasn't used a lot.

- I guess you should of saved Bens life then. Would of made a lot better story. My Kenny sacrificed himself and used his last bullet on Ben so Ben wouldn't have to suffer (and Ben was really scared of becoming a walker), and stayed by him so Ben didn't have to die alone. Although I think it was silly for Kenny to not just shoot Ben and leave I think it was great that they finally came to a understand to point that Kenny would do that for him.

[short_stack]

how can people say this masterpiece was terrible, i cried, you cant say it was bad just because Lee died and you are upset if you are having a strong emotion then the story did its part. are these people trolling?

[Kitmit13]

We found out that the attic kid's parents killed themselves, which was good to know but irrelevant.

Also that isn't true, those were the next door neighbors. I just thought it was kinda sad, holding hands as you died together because you know you'd rather get it done quick then suffer. Kinda...sweet in a way?

[Sir Craigius]

When Lee covered himself and Clem in walker guts and they walked out into the swarm, did anyone else think it was going to start raining, to mirror the scene from the TV show? There were definetely some dark stormy looking clouds on the horizon as you made your way towards the end of the street. Thought I heard the distant sound of thunder as well.