Is this racist?

[MsLox]

Originally Posted by JabbaDaHuttX7

Absorbed in American culture? He starts the game fresh off the boat... literally.

This. OP, what you call "cherrypicking" is actually using real facts and quotes instead of randomly spouting some 'pity me' arguments.

[8Bit_System]

Originally Posted by DreadMagus

Oh come on, you can do it.

I'll give my best... so now, where was this dress and the curlers I kept hiding in the closet for so long?

Originally Posted by JabbaDaHuttX7

Same here. Wow, some of you guys would hate the BioWare forums. All those guys talk about is minority representation.

I do think race and ethnicity are important when creating a character and their meaning shouldn't be immediately discared. (For example, I like TT's choice of making Lee black, even if I wouldn't have hated the idea of playing as a different race.)

I'd hate to be forced to play as a dog, or a donkey, but why should I have a problem "being" an Asian (or whatever race) if it fits the story?

[DreadMagus]

Race/culture are important, but shouldn't be chosen just to choose them.

Take Prototype - they had a white lead in the first game and a black lead in the second. When asked "why did you choose a black male for a main character." they replied "We didn't, we chose James Heller." (i.e. one character they had crafted from a pool of potential lead characters - he was just the best one they had crafted)

[Doctanian]

Originally Posted by JabbaDaHuttX7

Absorbed in American culture? He starts the game fresh off the boat... literally.

I know, but other than emails, a few missions revolving around the his past, and the occasional Serbian phrase, Niko doesn't expel much of his culture, instead the player adopts the American culture in Liberty City. From the clothes, to the cars, women, TV, food, radio, nightlife, etc, etc. His Eastern European roots are tossed out the window for the most part. There's really no hard time transitioning, at least, none we see on camera.

So, basically, even if Niko was an average American character coming to Liberty City from San Andreas, the experience would be pretty much the same.

[JabbaDaHuttX7]

@dreadmagus/^ I agree with that.

[JByrne]

Originally Posted by Eric Northman

... I'm wondering how you would see it if wrote a post hoping that the next protagonist was white, and saying we'd had enough of Lee's kind of character.

It's really, really, really not the same thing.

White people are in a position of great privilege in the Western world. That's just how it works. There are a hundred games with white people for every game with a non-white person as hero.

I remember one anecdote someone related to me about the production of Mirror's Edge, where the developers received feedback from market-testing that essentially boiled down to two things they wanted altered re: the lead character's design.

A) Bigger breasts.

B) Less Asian.

This is why people claiming colour blindness is problematic; because you are essentially ignoring a very real problem. It won't get solved until people acknowledge the problem is there and actually put pressure on companies to change.

[Doctanian]

Originally Posted by DreadMagus

Race/culture are important, but shouldn't be chosen just to choose them.

Take Prototype - they had a white lead in the first game and a black lead in the second. When asked "why did you choose a black male for a main character." they replied "We didn't, we chose James Heller." (i.e. one character they had crafted from a pool of potential lead characters - he was just the best one they had crafted)

Yeah, I called bullshit on that. We should've just stayed the main character from the first one. And it has to make sense in context, I mean, a Japanese RPG set in Edo-era Japan wouldn't make much sense with a brother running around, lol.

[DreadMagus]

Position of great privilege?

I must live in a different "western" world..... oh wait, you mean that 1% with a silver spoon coming out of their ass.

[DreadMagus]

Originally Posted by Doctanian

Yeah, I called bullshit on that. We should've just stayed the main character from the first one. And it has to make sense in context, I mean, a Japanese RPG set in Edo-era Japan wouldn't make much sense with a brother running around, lol.

Oh goodness, how could you like that emo punk that was Mercer?

"I got me some super powers! And now I must bitch about it! whaaaaaaaaaa!!"

Heller was cool, he had fun with his new toys.

[8Bit_System]

Originally Posted by Doctanian

I know, but other than emails, a few missions revolving around the his past, and the occasional Serbian phrase, Niko doesn't expel much of his culture, instead the player adopts the American culture in Liberty City. From the clothes, to the cars, women, TV, food, radio, nightlife, etc, etc. His Eastern European roots are tossed out the window for the most part. There's really no hard time transitioning, at least, none we see on camera.

So, basically, even if Niko was an average American character coming to Liberty City from San Andreas, the experience would be pretty much the same.

I do have to totally disagree on this. Over here in Europe we are really mixed, which is a good thing in my opinion, but still, changing style of clothes, cars, blabla, doesn't change your culture. For me playing a Serbian character is a totally different feeling than playing a German, British, French, or even a North American one.

It is a totally different way of thinking, and that's not meant in a bad way, but it is a fact. These countries have totally different ways of thinking.

[Doctanian]

Originally Posted by JByrne

It's really, really, really not the same thing.

White people are in a position of great privilege in the Western world. That's just how it works. There are a hundred games with white people for every game with a non-white person as hero.

I remember one anecdote someone related to me about the production of Mirror's Edge, where the developers received feedback from market-testing that essentially boiled down to two things they wanted altered re: the lead character's design.

A) Bigger breasts.

B) Less Asian.

This is why people claiming colour blindness is problematic; because you are essentially ignoring a very real problem. It won't get solved until people acknowledge the problem is there and actually put pressure on companies to change.

Exactly. Dude, you're hitting the nail on the head with these things.

Lol, the funny thing is, the Asian version made bigger breasts in the artwork.

[MsLox]

Originally Posted by JByrne

It's really, really, really not the same thing.

White people are in a position of great privilege in the Western world. That's just how it works. There are a hundred games with white people for every game with a non-white person as hero.

I remember one anecdote someone related to me about the production of Mirror's Edge, where the developers received feedback from market-testing that essentially boiled down to two things they wanted altered re: the lead character's design.

A) Bigger breasts.

B) Less Asian.

This is why people claiming colour blindness is problematic; because you are essentially ignoring a very real problem. It won't get solved until people acknowledge the problem is there and actually put pressure on companies to change.

Hate to drag the economy into this, but what is this "very real problem" you speak of? That companies follow what their consumers tell them to do? How is this the fault of the company? If market testing had revealed "smaller breasts" and "more asian", the company would have heeded. This is simple economics.

[HiggsBoson2142]

If they make him white - Fans: "Come on! The guy should be black again!"

If they make him black - Fans: "What the heck? Why are you making all of them black?"

[JabbaDaHuttX7]

Originally Posted by Doctanian

I know, but other than emails, a few missions revolving around the his past, and the occasional Serbian phrase, Niko doesn't expel much of his culture, instead the player adopts the American culture in Liberty City. From the clothes, to the cars, women, TV, food, radio, nightlife, etc, etc. His Eastern European roots are tossed out the window for the most part. There's really no hard time transitioning, at least, none we see on camera.

So, basically, even if Niko was an average American character coming to Liberty City from San Andreas, the experience would be pretty much the same.

He belittles Roman for forgetting their language... talks about the American Dream being a sham. Considering you spend most of the game shooting people and stealing cars, I'd say he appears Eastern-European enough.

It's not like Lee spends his entire time discussing his culture either.

[Tyrant]

I didn't notice Lee was black until it showed pictures of his family.

I just at first thought he was racially ambiguous for some reason. Not sure why Lee is so lightskinned but the rest of his family is darker.

[voodoohandbag]

Originally Posted by JByrne

It's really, really, really not the same thing.

White people are in a position of great privilege in the Western world. That's just how it works. There are a hundred games with white people for every game with a non-white person as hero.

I remember one anecdote someone related to me about the production of Mirror's Edge, where the developers received feedback from market-testing that essentially boiled down to two things they wanted altered re: the lead character's design.

A) Bigger breasts.

B) Less Asian.

This is why people claiming colour blindness is problematic; because you are essentially ignoring a very real problem. It won't get solved until people acknowledge the problem is there and actually put pressure on companies to change.

I'm with everybody else asking, what privilege? And maybe people here do need to think wider than the USA, because I don't know anybody that cares about race here.

However, women all over the world are still fighting for equal rights to men, even in developed countries.

Way I see it, maybe non-white people feel race is an issue, same as how I'm more concerned about female representation.

[8Bit_System]

Originally Posted by Doctanian

... Lol, the funny thing is, the Asian version made bigger breasts in the artwork.

It's not only the breast, compare the eyes and facial features. The western world gets the typical badass asian, while the eastern (asian) world gets a westernized juvenile version.

Show well, sell well...

[DreadMagus]

I haven't even played that game, and I knew which one was the Japanese art before I even read the text. lol

[Tyrant]

Originally Posted by voodoohandbag

I'm with everybody else asking, what privilege? And maybe people here do need to think wider than the USA, because I don't know anybody that cares about race here.

However, women all over the world are still fighting for equal rights to men, even in developed countries.

Way I see it, maybe non-white people feel race is an issue, same as how I'm more concerned about female representation.

Colour-blindedness is an issue. I don't expect everybody to understand privilege.

But Walking Dead has always been diverse, the novels had a black protagonist named Josh Lee Hamilton. The comics, and the TV show too. Though in the TV show there is a running joke of how "There can be only one." black man, after T-Dog gets written out and replaced by the black prisoner.

[JabbaDaHuttX7]

Originally Posted by JByrne

It's really, really, really not the same thing.

White people are in a position of great privilege in the Western world. That's just how it works. There are a hundred games with white people for every game with a non-white person as hero.

I remember one anecdote someone related to me about the production of Mirror's Edge, where the developers received feedback from market-testing that essentially boiled down to two things they wanted altered re: the lead character's design.

A) Bigger breasts.

B) Less Asian.

This is why people claiming colour blindness is problematic; because you are essentially ignoring a very real problem. It won't get solved until people acknowledge the problem is there and actually put pressure on companies to change.

The problem isn't that big -- studios like Telltale are American anyway. A lot of the games we play or shows we watch are made in the U.S. in the first place. Most people in the U.S. are white, hence...

If a white person doesn't feel left out when playing as a black person, then why should he feel privileged for playing as one of his own race?