Blog: Does Walking Dead really tailor itself to your actions?

[The13thRonin]

Originally Posted by JabbaDaHuttX7

Really. Then how about "Live with the profound and lasting consequences of the decisions you make in each episode?"

And I didn't feel like I got to tailor a shirt in episode five. It felt more like patching one up.

+1.

So much +1.

I don't care how good the story is. If you say the consequences are going to matter and then they matter about as much as deciding whether to wear the blue tie or the red tie to work then you have failed to make the game you set out to make . I'm not saying it's not a good game but it's certainly not the game that they said it was going to be.

If you sell someone a waffle iron that can't make waffles, but ends up making a pretty good paperweight people are going to be pissed that the thing they bought to make waffles is failing to make waffles.

I can understand people liking the game but if you truly like it and consider yourself a fan then you should want it to get better and if you want it to get better you have to be honest with it. Did it do what it set out to do? Not really... Was it a terrible piece of crap? Certainly not. How could it be improved? By making the decisions more consequential in Season 2 and delivering a better final payoff.

[arctic_prince]

I've read the blog and agreed with pretty much everything.

I still cannot get my head around how people can get to a place where they are angry that a video game does not respond to their every action and whim. Short of being actual real-life, computer programming is limited because AI is just that: Artificial.

I think sometimes that some people must believe that they deserve to have a constantly thinking and growing cyber intelligence for a PC/gaming console that is capable of generating new dialogue depending on what the player is thinking about at any given time.

Or perhaps people understand the whole limitations of computer games and instead just want the illusion to be handled better.

I am not an accountant or resource manager at TTG so I have no idea how big or small their budget for this game was, but I would argue that in Season 2 they actually address a way to paper over the cracks and make the illusion of choice greater in the next season. Their story-telling is already spot-on. I was blubbing throughout TWD and had a range of emotional responses to the situations I (as Lee) was placed in.

[Noble]

Originally Posted by Rambo297

1. Whatever... They Die at the same moment...
2. What effect does it have?
3. Same as 2.
4. Team... it doesn't change anything... Just possibility to cut your arm by other person...

You were given choices, but choices don't mean they change anything in the end. Say you're driving somewhere, you can take several different routes to get there -- they may go in different directions but in the end they all take you to your destination.

The journey is more important than the end.

[Luminoth]

Another game that really reminds me of Telltale's approach is "Tales of Symphonia" for Gamecube. In that game, sprinkled around the overworld (or directly within the main plot) are occasional dialogue options on how to respond to people, and sometimes what path to take next. These responses ultimately affect each character's "Affection Meter" with Lloyd, and they ultimately have a role in shaping who you speak with in Flanoir (which causes a minor variation in the game from then on as to which character you're closest to; Colette, Genis, Sheena, etc.). While these responses do not change the story, they provide a different feel for the characters around you, which is a lot of what these games are about.

In TWD, it's not about branching the narrative through your choices; it's more about affecting your relationships with the other characters. And even if, at times, these result merely in changes of dialogue, that actually makes the experience a lot more significant than you'd think.

Think about it - what would any movie or TV show be without meaningful dialogue? The fact is, dialogue and character interaction play a HUGE role in telling a story. The fact that dialogue in certain scenes can be drastically different (in each of the 5 episodes) depending on the choices you've made, actually does help to tailor the story to you.

My only real hope is that Season 1's choices carry over into Season 2 (similar to the Mass Effect games), and that characters whose endings are currently left unanswered are brought to light (such as: what ultimately happened to Kenny, Molly, Omid and Christa, Vernon, Lilly (after she leaves the party; hopefully something related to her time with Lee and the group comes to light before she takes on her role in the comics), Jolene's daughter, the St. John brothers (if you chose to spare them), Hershel (before his story begins in the comics, depending on whether or not you lied to him, and whether or not you tried to save Shawn), and especially Clementine. That way, there won't be loose ends of the story just left dangling there with a lazy "You interpret what happened to these characters" just tacked onto the end of the season. Hopefully, this will be the case.

Overall, bravo to Telltale for creating an emotionally driven experience. TWD surpasses Heavy Rain in so many ways, IMO, even with Heavy Rain's branching plotline.

[FreeWater]

What really makes the illusion of choice so prominent in this game is the internet, TBH. That and second playthroughs. Think about it: If you played through the game thinking your choices actually mattered and wondered what would happen had you done x instead of y it would feel a lot more realistic and you'd love the game a lot more.
For me, I never play games like this a second time or reload checkpoints because I like to believe my choice is set in stone and I have to live with it. I loved thinking that I could have actually saved Carley had I said or done something differently, but of course this was ruined as soon as I visited the internet.

Short version: I hate that the game has a cannon story, but would have been fine with that fact had I not known that.

[Gman5852]

Originally Posted by Rambo297

4. Team... it doesn't change anything... Just possibility to cut your arm by other person...

That just made me realize there is a scene out there of Ben chopping Lee's arm off...

I know what my new goal is for when I replay...

[Cooperal]

To sum it up, your decisions will do one of two things. It will either:

A: Alter future dialog (or minor details), either directly or after calculating multiple decisions against one another. Or...

B: Delay an inevitable plot-point until you're back on the same track either way. Every single character that can be optionally saved/killed/abandoned will die/leave somewhere in the near future regardless.

It's nice how many old decisions get referenced often, but it's really no more groundbreaking than Mass Effect, to give one example.

[bazenji]

I explained this before, but it is well worth explaining again. In television/film screenplays there are A plots, B plots, and C plots. The A plot has to stay the same or else you're writing a completely different narrative. The B and C plots, or the subplots involving supporting characters, can be altered or changed to shift emphasis without altering the A plot.

Most games have a required A plot narrative, even when they have multiple endings. The real question is how do games disguise the rigidity of the A plot through narrative sleight of hand?

Fallout does this by compartmentalizing its B and C plots. The B plots and C plots, while numerous, are are usually completely ignored once you step outside of their spheres of influence. For instance, you can blow up the town of Megaton in Fallout 3 and NO ONE CARES. It almost never gets mentioned ever again. You can destroy Tenpenny Towers and outside of Tenpenny Towers there is no change to the game at all.

The game goes on like this until the end when a patchwork series of narrated alternate ending stillframes, each ten seconds long, reflect what you did. Even then, the game has the same A plot ending despite great variety in its recognition of your B and C plot exploits.

The Walking Dead plays harder and tighter with its B and C plots. The A plot will never change and keeps the same structure, but the B plots and C plots directly alter your story and change the decisions you make later on. Characters remember what you did in those subplots although the narrative will remain consistent. They will comment on your progression REPEATEDLY, initiate conversation with you in such a manner that they acknowledge the decisions you made, and generally consider your previous actions in their own response to situations.

If you take each Episode separately, it's obvious that the game acknowledges your B plot and C plot choices. As a whole, however, the game brushes off those choices in the end. But the climax of the game is DIRECTLY tied to the actions you've taken in B plot and C plot decisions and your effect on the world.

This is closer to Mass Effect than Fallout 3. And Mass Effect still demands credit for integrating broad choices your character has made into sequels. That said, Mass Effect 3's failure was that its climax truly ignores everything you had done up until that point. There is no surprise twist. There's no echo from the past. Once you walk away from Liara, you are entering the exact same storyline every other gamer has been playing and will witness plenty of prerendered animated scenes slightly altered based not on your decisions but on an arbitrary number easily affected by playing multiplayer sessions.

While it's true you can make a decision that alters the ending and choices you made will limit the variety of faces that appear in one of those cutscenes, the climax doesn't care about your friends one bit.

This puts The Walking Dead at an advantage. Your dialogue changes are DIRECTLY altered based on how you played the game. The entire climax is a reflection of your choices and your mindset and that of your friends. And you get to revisit them. So, yeah, your choices tailor THE GAME even if the ending is the same.

[Fluffyburrito]

Great post and sums up my feelings. Episode 3 hit me like a truck. Episode 1 and 2 set you up for these decisions that you think are going to be big.

*You choose either Lilly or Kenny as your main friend
*Doug/Carley are still around so you gain the illusion they will meaningfully impact the story in some way

These, to me, were the big choices for episode 1 and 2. Episode 3 destroyed them. No matter how you treated Lilly she does the exact same thing and Doug/Carley both end up the same.

What if Kenny had bailed on you with his family because he didn't trust you and left you Lilly for the rest of the game? Telltale could afford keeping Doug/Carley around until episode 3 but couldn't think to do more dialogue for Lilly for episodes 4/5?

And the Doug/Carley incident... my gosh... the sole purpose of that scene was only meant to get rid of them. It seemed like the first half of episode 3 was just devoted to get rid of all the important relationships you built in episodes 1/2 so they didn't have to keep making them matter.

Then it continues for episode 4. Illusions of important decisions were:

*How you treat Vernon and if you tell him to take Clem or not.
*Who goes with you in the final episode. (I still remember the forum exploding with, "IT ALL MATTERS NOW! GO TT!" :/)
*Ben's fate

Two of which were crushed in the same scene five minutes into the next episode. No matter how you treated Vernon he steals your stuff and no matter who goes with you everyone is together after the first five minutes of the episode.

On top of that, we wouldn't want to start thinking that anyone we try to save is going to survive huh? Ben just has to go halfway into the episode.

I still enjoyed the game, don't get me wrong. But anyone who thinks the game is "custom-fit", aka tailored, around your choices is delusional. It's a wonderful story and a great interactive movie but the game does not change based on choice and there is little reason to replay it.

[Taaka]

I read the linked article in its entirety. Now, I am absolutely sure that the words "This game series adapts to the choices you make. The story is tailored by how you play." is nothing but a play on our limited understanding of what TT considers 'The Story..'. The linked article was written by someone with a distinct command of the written verse. It seems more an apology that a fact stating concourse.

The average, reasonable gamer played the episodes believing that the word 'adaptation' would result in an alternate ending than what we were fed. Instead, it has meant nothing more than a pointless round of choices that left us emotionally reminded of our ability to make good decisions within a small increment of time.

Time wasn't the enemy. Choices proved to be nothing more than a graphical representation of where we would end up in the scenes to come. It was not a true adaptation to choices as we soon learned that the story is the ultimate decision maker regardless of our own.

Did it really make any difference in the finale that the entire group went with Lee to find Clem? Where in the entire episode did Lee need anyone but himself to rescue Clem? While it comforted many to have company during the search, the choices only affected the stats before the credits.

So... This game series adapts to the choices you make. The story is tailored by how you play. is not a complete lie. It is an illusion or even a deception primarily used to make players believe choices would provide a certain story ending. The result of all that button mashing and mouse clicking is nothing more than wear and tear on a players gear.

If I played the game without making a single story choice, which is separate from action
choices like shooting a weapon or climbing a ladder, the story would adapt in such a way that it would flow to the end result. Without me, as a player, Lee would have been bitten , the stranger would have died, and Clem would still be facing an uncertain future, alone.

(How many times do we need to read this stuff?) We felt cheated in the finale because of the story ending, not the ability to affect the scenes within it. Controlling the scenes is what makes TWDG a game. Otherwise, we are merely mashing 'turn the page' buttons on a well thought out visual book.

In fact, it takes about 10-15 hours to read a good book. We did that in five episodes running about 2 hours on average (perhaps more for some). So yeah... we played an active role in a book that was graphically displayed... great idea and that is the only thing I really walked away with. The ending of this season was poorly thought out and made people question does this story adapt to the choices you make? Simply put... No.

[moonkid]

@Luminoth: What you're saying about relationships is spot on, and is basically what I was getting at in the blog. In fact, character relationships and emotional responses are far *more* important to a story than it's plot (although this seems counter-intuitive to many people).

@FreeWater: I agree - I'm not going to play it again. BUt I was curious enough about how it functions to look stuff up on this forum. Even learning that a fair bit of it is smoke and mirrors didn't really lessen my satisfaction with it. Like I say in the article - all art and storytelling is ultimately smoke and mirrors.

@bazenji: Very cool alternate explanation of how the plotting works.

@Fluffyburrito and others: I think you're still missing the point of what I was saying. The tailoring is to the emotional journey, not the main plot. If you look at it from that point of view, it's very much "tailored". The decisions I made certainly impacted me emotionally in specific ways, and I would have felt different had I made different choices.

[moonkid]

@Taaka: Once again, I have to respectfully disagree. The whole point of my article is that this is a game about exploring the emotional landscape of a story and its characeter; it is not about "Choose Your Own Adventure"-style branching plots. Some people may have felt cheated by this. I certainly did not - in fact, I was surprised and delighted when I realised what Telltale had accomplished, and how skilfully they'd pulled it off.

[The13thRonin]

https://www.telltalegames.com/walkin...sodes/#thegame

Telltales own words [the first two paragraphs advertising the entire series]: "Live with the profound and lasting consequences of the decisions that you make in each episode.

Your actions and choices will affect how your story plays out across the entire series."

Maybe the apologists should actually do their homework. Everyone got exactly the same ending... There were no lasting consequences for anything... Not one single decision you made actually mattered one rats ass. You can like the game but wake up and see it for what it is at the same time. It might have been good in many ways but it still failed to live up to goals it initially set out to meet. For all the yours that Telltale threw out up there they ultimately decided that we were gonna damn well sit back and listen to the story that they provided. While it was a mostly compelling story that doesn't take away the fact that it wasn't our story.

[SNIP... Forgot this wasn't a spolier forum... Many examples of non-changeable story routes].

Don't give me any crapola about this did what it set out to do. It did not. Everything leads down the same linear path with occasionally different flavour text. There are no consequences for anything you do at all. ANYTHING. Period.

"Live with the profound and lasting consequences of the decisions that you make in each episode.

[GenConfusion]

Let's face it. We live in the bioware era where we expect games that offer choices to have those choices impact the game's plot significantly and often to the point where we do get multiple endings, even if they are just differ mostly in the color of ambient light.

I think their marketing f'ed up and didn't need to mislead players like that. That said I don't feel cheated. The game is brilliant and I could care less that it was linear in nature. Even if the choices were insignificant to the plot (since the characters die anyway) they were still fun (at time agonizing) to make and that's what matters.

[moonkid]

@The13thRonin: Point taken. I hadn't read that first sentence you quote. Perhaps they did tone things down from their original intentions. It wouldn't be the first time. However;

@GenConfusion: You're absolutely right - the game was in the experience of *making* the choices, plot consequences be damned. It may be true that some people expect choices that influence the plot, but that doesn't mean that's the best approach to making this style of game. I'd argue that The Walking Dead equals or trumps any game Bioware has ever made in terms of narrative engagement. As such, why don't we look at Telltale's game as an equally valid model?

[The13thRonin]

Originally Posted by moonkid

@The13thRonin: Point taken. I hadn't read that first sentence you quote. Perhaps they did tone things down from their original intentions. It wouldn't be the first time. However;

With all that said I still enjoyed the game and I think it's a masterpiece. I hope though that they take it that extra mile in season two. If they can just go that little bit of an extra mile it will go from being a good game to being one of the best games ever created. I don't want Telltale to sit back and think well obviously no-one wants choices so lets just ignore that from now on. Hopefully it moves away from being a linear experience to a more open ended one. One where I can punch the next Kenny right in his face after he acts like a punk because I didn't help with his 'salt' problems.

[plaqueconspiracy]

If you don't know what "tailored" means you might want to look it up.

[Gman5852]

Originally Posted by The13thRonin

https://www.telltalegames.com/walkin...sodes/#thegame

Telltales own words [the first two paragraphs advertising the entire series]: "Live with the profound and lasting consequences of the decisions that you make in each episode.

Your actions and choices will affect how your story plays out across the entire series."

And it did.
That's the thing. Notice it says "How your story plays out", NOT "Will alter the overall story". The way my story played out is different than yours. It DID alter. That is all they said.

Maybe the apologists should actually do their homework.

I did. And I'm not apologizing, if you didn't like the game then you didn't like the game. And the bugs/customer service has been god-awful for this game.

Everyone got exactly the same ending... There were no lasting consequences for anything... Not one single decision you made actually mattered one rats ass.

Again people are just going with the "BUT LEE STILL DIED" conclusion. Where did it say MAJOR DETAILS were changed? If you can find where Telltale themselves said that, then fine. So far all I'm seeing is the same "Story is tailored to how you play" which did happen with minor details changing.

You can like the game but wake up and see it for what it is at the same time. It might have been good in many ways but it still failed to live up to goals it initially set out to meet.

It failed some(episodic) succeeded at others(story), and it did succeed here(again, all I see are "Your story plays out differently than others", which is true. Granted there are some "really?" moments in the story (the fact that the group meets up in the end even after that dramatic "I'm going" "I'm not" part of episode 4 was pure bullcrap... still want to see if Ben cuts Lee's arm off...), but it certainly is this "NOTHING CHANGED" argument I've seen.

While it was a mostly compelling story that doesn't take away the fact that it wasn't our story.

Again, you seem to flat out ignore the details that DID change. Kenny flat out hated me by the end of the game, while others had Kenny become BFFS. I got the guilt of knowing Ben get's an arguably worse death if you save him in episode 4. While others feel guilt that he died by their hands. I had Doug, others have Carley(Yeah yeah yeah, "THEY DIED STILL" fantastic, they still were with me 2 episodes longer than before)

And I got to watch Telltale fail at figuring out how the heck Lee needs to climb a latter with one arm

Don't give me any crapola about this did what it set out to do. It did not. Everything leads down the same linear path with occasionally different flavour text. There are no consequences for anything you do at all. ANYTHING. Period.

Again, you are just looking at the broad story, which didn't change. The details did. Also, calling it "flavor text" isn't exactly how to diminish it and make it nonimportant. You seem to be forgetting how YOU reacted. My decisions led me to hate Kenny personally, others became great friends with him. That wasn't flavor text, that was YOUR reactions. Same with Lilly.

"Live with the profound and lasting consequences of the decisions that you make in each episode.

The game doesn't need to constantly tell you "HEY YOU HELPED MURDER AN OLD MAN IN FRONT OF HIS DAUGHTER!" to "live with the consequences". You still helped murder Larry, you still killed Ben/gave him a worse fate, you still stabbed a St Johns farmer with a pitchfork, you still chose Carley over Doug, you still fought Kenny, you still did all of this. These WERE my choices, and the consequences were guilt of what I done, and how the characters reacted me. Yes I still died in the end, that was the destination, THIS was the journey.

Go ahead and ignore all the details that changed and go with "LEE STILL DIED! KENNY STILL DIED!" etc. I won't argue that, this is just a message to everyone, quit ignoring the details that DID change. If you want to argue, don't argue that NOTHING changed, argue that you wish MORE changed(which be honest, we all do).

[XTheFirestarterX]

There's respectable arguments on both sides - Agree to disagree.

It's okay to state your opinion, but if you're willing to go as far as insult the developers, then please stop. The developers worked mighty hard on this game, and I enjoyed every second of it. Don't ruin my fun while I'm looking on these forums to chat about my experiences.

[The13thRonin]

Originally Posted by Gman5852

Go ahead and ignore all the details that changed and go with "LEE STILL DIED! KENNY STILL DIED!" etc. I won't argue that, this is just a message to everyone, quit ignoring the details that DID change. If you want to argue, don't argue that NOTHING changed, argue that you wish MORE changed(which be honest, we all do).

Sometimes I wear a red tie to work... Sometimes I wear a blue tie... Does this change anything? Not really...

Just because little tidbits of dialogue changed doesn't mean that this accounts for long lasting consequences. It's not about that Lee died. It's about the fact that everything Lee did prior to dying was for nothing. All the "Clementine will remember that." or other character's "he/she will remember that" moments were for nothing.

And don't even get me started on Kenny... Perfect example. You do everything for that guy, you feed his family, you save his family, you kiss the ground he walks on and what does he do if you don't help him salt lick Larry? He leaves you for dead twice and hates you for the rest of the game... Umm what? How does that take into account any of my prior actions? You basically press a giant Kenny will treat you passive-aggressively or Kenny will bromance you button and nothing else you do matters. There are heaps of examples of this kind of thing but the Kenny thing is probably the best one.

I respect elements of your argument but I still completely disagree with your point of view on the matter.

Originally Posted by XTheFirestarterX

There's respectable arguments on both sides - Agree to disagree.

It's okay to state your opinion, but if you're willing to go as far as insult the developers, then please stop. The developers worked mighty hard on this game, and I enjoyed every second of it. Don't ruin my fun while I'm looking on these forums to chat about my experiences.

I'm not sure if you're talking to me or anyone else but as far as I'm concerned I don't feel I've insulted the developers. I stated multiple times I liked the game and the game was good even so far as regarding it as a "masterpiece" but that's not going to stop me from offering some criticism that a lot of people in the community are also feeling. I have stated that either their advertising was misleading or they failed in their initial objective in providing a branching story. I stand by that statement. No-one is trying to mess with your enjoyment of the game.

Perhaps you are referring to what I termed 'the apologists'. This is because I don't believe just because you recognise the elements of good in something you should ignore the elements that weren't so good or could be improved. If people want a better Season 2 they need to offer reasonable critcism of Season 1. I don't think reasonable critcism is anything like Lee died so the story sucked. I do think that not having enough player choice is a reasonable critcism though.