Anyone else feel like the writer for Episode 5 ignored everything set up in Ep 4?

[viruscarrier]

Having digested the ending for a few days, I'm starting to realize a few issues I've had with the ending, and a good number of them seem to likely stem from the fact that episodes 4 and 5 have different writers.

1. Ben's treatment
For those who saved Ben in Episode 4, I feel like the writer for Episode 5 completely missed what the one for Episode 4 had been building up for the character. After his series of ****-ups I expected there to be some redeeming moment (or hell, even just an attempt at one). Instead, all we got was Ben falling to his death and providing no closure for his character arc.

2. Kenny's treatment
Related to the above. This probably doesn't come into play with the Christa version, but it makes absolutely no sense from what we've learned about Kenny in the previous episodes for him to just randomly flip on his opinion of Ben so much that he would just sacrifice himself for absolutely no reason. Honestly, he could have just shot Ben much sooner and escaped just fine, but I guess the writer felt that an uncharacteristic suicide was in order.

3. Omid and Chrsta's fate.
This was also pretty bad. No matter what you tell the two of them, the simply disappear without an explanation. Clem doesn't find them and they certainly don't find you before you turn. What the hell was the point of the option then telling them what they should do? Was it really that hard for Telltale to make just 3 scenes depending on what you tell them to do that shows their fate? Hell, for instance, if you tell them to find the boat it could cut to a scene where they get attacked and killed by a horde near the harbor. If you tell them to wait for Clem it could show them meet up, or fail to meet up even. To simply have them disappear forever without any explanation is poor closure and poor writing.

4. Clem's Parents.
This was by far the worst handled segment of the entire series. For all the build-up towards finding her parents, all we got out of it was a 10 second segment where Lee falls unconscious and Clem almost freaks out. For something they've been building up since Episode 1, the essential hand wave of "hey here they are" and instant removal was simply insulting. I honestly can't believe they thought this part was going to be well received. Another chance at actually solidifying a character arc that they simple dropped the ball on.

Not to mention the fact that it is simply illogical that Clem would see her parents right next to each other. I mean really, what kind of mega coincidence is that?


Well, those are my main gripes with Episode 5. On a positive note, I found the Lee and Clem final scene to be rather well done, as I did the arm removal scene. The Part where Christa just starts cutting before I could even finish my response was both an oh **** moment and one that made me laugh.

[zeke10]

Its the walking dead **** happens

[Danger: Wildman]

Can't agree with you on everything in this post, but I do agree with your 4th point. The brief interjection of Clem's Zombified parents was the only let down of episode 5 for me. I was expecting a more intimate, although painful, moment like when Lee had to kill his brother. I feel like that would have been a more meaningful interaction prior to the finale of Lee's death.

I admit that TTG had their hands full bringing such a powerful story together, but this would have been one moment that I feel would have added to the finale in a very positive way. Nevertheless, it still has my vote for game of the year!

[Sabiancym]

I think Episode 5 completely ignored the entire game. It was short, very simple, and "resolved" the build up from the previous episodes quickly and in the most boring way possible.

I don't see how you can spend 2-3 episodes building up the guy on the radio and the boat only to make the actual climax so short and anti-climactic. Episode 5 completely ruined the series for me. I thought that the choices I made in the previous Episodes would finally affect something in the game, but they didn't. I also expected the finale to be very tense, but it was lackluster and borderline boring.

For all of the setup for a big finale, they sure dropped the ball.

And enough with the "It's a Zombie Apacolypse, this is what would happen." excuse. Using that excuse, it would have been perfectly acceptable to have Lee accidentally fall off the bridge with the tanker on it to his death and have the game end there....

[Doctanian]

"You're nitpicking." - Typical Poster

"I for one, thought it was masterful, you just don't understand the literary genius of TellTale, they can do no wrong. HERESY HERESY!" - Typical Poster

"It's the Walking Dead." - Typical Poster.

"You just mad Lee died." - Typical Poster.


I agree with most of your points. The reason it ended so badly was because it was rushed. Maybe deadlines, but the writers wrote themselves in a corner when Lee got bit and when Clementine was kidnapped. That really put restrains on them. The game was linear before, but at least previous episodes gave you the feeling of something larger.

[CrazyandProud]

Originally Posted by Sabiancym

I think Episode 5 completely ignored the entire game. It was short, very simple, and "resolved" the build up from the previous episodes quickly and in the most boring way possible.

I don't see how you can spend 2-3 episodes building up the guy on the radio and the boat only to make the actual climax so short and anti-climactic. Episode 5 completely ruined the series for me. I thought that the choices I made in the previous Episodes would finally affect something in the game, but they didn't. I also expected the finale to be very tense, but it was lackluster and borderline boring.

For all of the setup for a big finale, they sure dropped the ball.

And enough with the "It's a Zombie Apacolypse, this is what would happen." excuse. Using that excuse, it would have been perfectly acceptable to have Lee accidentally fall off the bridge with the tanker on it to his death and have the game end there....

Your choices did effect the way characters interacted with you. You just have a very narrow way of thinking what choices actually means. I think the way they did it was just fine. What were you expecting? The guy to have laser beam eyes and to be able smash through wall? Turn into a mega zombie? Everybody live happily ever after? That is not what walking dead has ever been about and that is not how life works. This is not suppose to be a feel good story. You have to explain how you think it could have done better?

Originally Posted by Doctanian

"You're nitpicking." - Typical Poster

"I for one, thought it was masterful, you just don't understand the literary genius of TellTale, they can do no wrong. HERESY HERESY!" - Typical Poster

"It's the Walking Dead." - Typical Poster.

"You just mad Lee died." - Typical Poster.


I agree with most of your points. The reason it ended so badly was because it was rushed. Maybe deadlines, but the writers wrote themselves in a corner when Lee got bit and when Clementine was kidnapped. That really put restrains on them. The game was linear before, but at least previous episodes gave you the feeling of something larger.

If you thought that it gave you a feeling of something larger that you have greatly misunderstood the whole story. It was never about something larger.

[Mornai]

I was honestly expecting a confrontation between bitten Lee and Clementine's mom, and her attempting to kill Lee or keep Clem away from him at all costs or something similar. I'll admit i was a bit disappointed it didn't turn out that way.

[Doctanian]

Originally Posted by CrazyandProud

If you thought that it gave you a feeling of something larger that you have greatly misunderstood the whole story. It was never about something larger.

Not really. You clearly don't know what I mean by larger. It gave me the feel of a world gone to hell. The opening car ride where you see police head into the city gives the game a much grander feel. You travel, meet new characters, and experience the struggle to survive in a broken society for the first 4 episodes. Yes, they were linear, but they didn't feel that way. Episode 5 felt confined and linear and lost a critical tone in the series.

[lucidity02]

Guys, it's annoying as hell when you try to objectify typical fans of The Walking Dead game, much of whom liked the finale, as brainless sheep who blindly defend Telltale or are incapable of engaging in thoughtful discussions about the game. Seriously, stop. Shit, half the time when I try to have a reasoned conversation with someone on these forums who *didn't* like the game -- while explaining why I did -- I'll get trolled or some bizarrely defensive or hostile reply. Or I'm completely ignored, because I guess fighting with people online is more fun?

You're allowed to dislike the game, or the ending. But this crap about "typical Telltale fans" is irritating and counterproductive. I liked the game and think the company has a good grasp of narrative structure. I liked the ending, which had been foreshadowed throughout the previous episodes, and see absolutely zero evidence that the game was rushed in any capacity. Does that make me a fanboy?

[Doctanian]

Originally Posted by lucidity02

Guys, it's annoying as hell when you try to objectify typical fans of The Walking Dead game, much of whom liked the finale, as brainless sheep who blindly defend Telltale or are incapable of engaging in thoughtful discussions about the game. Seriously, stop. Shit, half the time when I try to have a reasoned conversation with someone on these forums who *didn't* like the game -- while explaining why I did -- I'll get trolled or some bizarrely defensive or hostile reply.

You're allowed to dislike the game, or the ending. But this crap about "typical Telltale fans" is irritating and counterproductive. I liked the game and think the company has a good grasp of narrative structure. I liked the ending, which had been foreshadowed throughout the previous episodes, and see absolutely zero evidence that the game was rushed in any capacity. Does that make me a fanboy?

If it doesn't apply to you, why are you offended? I'm a TellTale fan and I fit none of those stereotypical descriptions I listed as a joke. I'm not ripping on fans, I'm ripping on those forum posters who head to every thread with criticism of the game doing exactly what you said, blindly defending TellTale. There's a lot of them, dude.

[CrazyandProud]

Originally Posted by Doctanian

Not really. You clearly don't know what I mean by larger. It gave me the feel of a world gone to hell. The opening car ride where you see police head into the city gives the game a much grander feel. You travel, meet new characters, and experience the struggle to survive in a broken society for the first 4 episodes. Yes, they were linear, but they didn't feel that way. Episode 5 felt confined and linear and lost a critical tone in the series.

And you no longer feel the world has gone to hell? Did you really expect to have the last episode about meeting new people and traveling when it's the final episode in the season? It's confined for a reason.

Confined and linear are not tones.

[lucidity02]

Originally Posted by Doctanian

If it doesn't apply to you, why are you offended? I'm a TellTale fan and I fit none of those stereotypical descriptions I listed as a joke. I'm not ripping on fans, I'm ripping on those forum posters who head to every thread with criticism of the game doing exactly what you said, blindly defending TellTale. There's a lot of them, dude.

I'm not offended, per se. Just annoyed. I've been seeing a lot of these "the Telltale fanboys will" posts lately, and I personally think it's an unfair characterization.

You're obviously right that it happens on both sides, though, but I tend to detect more of an undercurrent of nastiness with those who are critical of the game. Maybe it's just my interpretation of their posts, maybe not.

[zeke10]

Originally Posted by lucidity02

I'm not offended, per se. Just annoyed. I've been seeing a lot of these "the Telltale fanboys will" posts lately, and I personally think it's an unfair characterization.

You're obviously right that it happens on both sides, though, but I tend to detect more of an undercurrent of nastiness with those who are critical of the game. Maybe it's just my interpretation of their posts, maybe not.

I hate when people use the word "Fanboy" Big whoop i liked it so did about 99.9999% of people on this forums

[PeopleSandwich]

Originally Posted by viruscarrier

1. Ben's treatment

2. Kenny's treatment

3. Omid and Chrsta's fate.

4. Clem's Parents.

Not to mention the fact that it is simply illogical that Clem would see her parents right next to each other. I mean really, what kind of mega coincidence is that?

I agree with some points and strongly disagree with others;

1/ I personally think some big redemption would have been very cliched. Ben was a realistic flawed character, and his redemption was bravely joining the rescue team. He fell and died before anything more meaningful could happen, it felt fresh as I was expecting some eye rolling redemption.

2/ Yeah fair point, although I guess Kenny has had some time to calm down a little and may be seeing things more clearly. It's also worth noting he may have given up to some extent and was looking for a good reason to get himself killed, however it happened.

3/ Omid and Christa were separated from Lee so the story could end with Lee and Clem. I thought that was fitting personally. Finding them again when the streets were full of walkers would be tough, and Lee was dying I also felt that Clem becoming self reliant was more satisfying than seeing her merely passed to another guardian.

4/ Yeah...... I kind of agree with this. Would have been better if they were walkers in the Marsh House or better yet if you replaced the earlier suicide couple with Clem's parents. It was a ridiculous coincidence they were walking down the street for Clem to spot them

[raptor]

Originally Posted by PeopleSandwich

4/ Yeah...... I kind of agree with this. Would have been better if they were walkers in the Marsh House or better yet if you replaced the earlier suicide couple with Clem's parents.

I can see how having a more emotional 'reunion' with Clem's could be expected, but on the other hand, the scene demonstrates how Clem has matured and can look past her emotions to tend to the people still alive. Instead of getting torn up about her parents, she was able to overcome her grief and save Lee from the herd. That's what I got from the scene in any case.

Originally Posted by PeopleSandwich

It was a ridiculous coincidence they were walking down the street for Clem to spot them

If Kirkman's zombies work the same as Romero's, then the zombies tend to roam towards familiar places from their previous lives (from the original Dawn of the Dead movie). So that might explain what they were doing around the Marsh House when they supposedly died at the hospital. That's just a theory though, since that topic hasn't come up in the comics from what I can recall.

[Doctanian]

Originally Posted by lucidity02

I'm not offended, per se. Just annoyed. I've been seeing a lot of these "the Telltale fanboys will" posts lately, and I personally think it's an unfair characterization.

You're obviously right that it happens on both sides, though, but I tend to detect more of an undercurrent of nastiness with those who are critical of the game. Maybe it's just my interpretation of their posts, maybe not.

Those negative people who are rude make people who have valid issues with the game (like myself) look like we're all just nitpicking. I feel you, though. I'll stop with the posts.

[lucidity02]

Originally Posted by Doctanian

Those negative people who are rude make people who have valid issues with the game (like myself) look like we're all just nitpicking. I feel you, though. I'll stop with the posts.

On a positive note, you just restored my hope that a normal conversation can be had on these forums. Well done, dude.

Sorry you didn't dig the ending though.

[Anyday]

If Kirkman's zombies work the same as Romero's, then the zombies tend to roam towards familiar places from their previous lives (from the original Dawn of the Dead movie).

This is sort of answered in season 1 of the tv show, the answer is yes.

That said, the term ''Fanboy'' has really lost touch with it's original meaning. A fanboy is someone who, regardless of the constructive literary evidence, prefer to argue with irrational logic and and tend to have circular endless arguments without reason.

I don't think a single person here will argue against the fact that the episode should have been longer to hash out character story archs better, and I feel like that pretty much sums up all your issues with the game.

[JakeSt123]

Well, they can't please everyone, can they? No matter what they do, someone won't like it. As far as I know a lot of people did like the game as a whole including myself.

[Sabiancym]

Originally Posted by CrazyandProud

Your choices did effect the way characters interacted with you. You just have a very narrow way of thinking what choices actually means. I think the way they did it was just fine. What were you expecting? The guy to have laser beam eyes and to be able smash through wall? Turn into a mega zombie? Everybody live happily ever after? That is not what walking dead has ever been about and that is not how life works. This is not suppose to be a feel good story. You have to explain how you think it could have done better?

You just completely validated Doctanian's typical telltale fanboy analysis.


I say that I don't like the game, and you call me narrow-minded....fanboy much? And please tell me how expecting choice to affect more than just dialog is narrow minded. The definition of a narrow view is only expecting very little in the scope of all things possible...so how would me expecting more be narrow?

Why do you and so many other people feel the need to reply to every negative criticism of the game and try to tell that person that they're wrong? I'll never understand the fanboy syndrome. You like the game...awesome. Why do you get so upset when other people don't? Which you obviously are if you take the time to reply to individual posts and throw out insults.