F*** Kenny

[Wrighty]

Originally Posted by Rock114

Well, since I think that Larry was pretty dead after he stopped breathing, had no pulse, and his heart stopped beating, I'd say that my Lee's hands were pretty clean in the meat locker too. Walkers don't count as people, and Larry was pretty much a walker about 10 seconds after he hit the ground, in my mind. Kenny's actions may not always seem to be "right" but they ARE logical. Logical decisions which will actually benefit/save the group as a whole. Just like leaving the girl in the street or busting Larry's head.

This pretty much sums it up.

I think its funny how people pretend theres no difference between shooting a person who was no threat in the head for doing something she might not have even done and making sure Larry who might already be dead doesnt destroy (LITERALLY) the whole group. Lilly fans really have to clutch at straws to find faults, especially after ep 5. Saying that every logical decision he makes proves he is a bad and evil person, who deserves to die.

[NSS]

Originally Posted by dukeleto

If you treat him right...

Well, no offense but I'm so curious how does it not enough to treat him right, except aggreing him to bust Larry's face and shooting the lone girl on the street to gain more time and stealing from a lone car, BUT other than these three, agreeing with ALL stuff he was waiting from Lee? Is everything Lee did for him really not enough to gain his friendship?

Last time I checked, the only thing meLee ever needed to call Kenny as a "friend" was he has a wife and a little boy.

Yes, Kenny is such a hero-bro of all times!

P.S: For all Kennylovers, please be sure that you liked Kenny most because you probably helped him to bust Larry's face. And you are accusing Lilly fans for supporting a murderer, what an irony.
Beware, at least with Carley situation what ever your decision of Lilly's fate was, Lee's hands remained CLEAN. (For me, hands of whom let Lilly get on the RV are way much cleaner)
You have your own angle of Lee's hands condition while deciding your attempt on Larry situation.
Have fun

Larry was already dead, pal. Try again.

[Yertos]

Larry wasn't dead yet, but he sure was about to be. I agree with what Kenny did but he did it way to fast and handled it poorly. If he gave Lilly a little more time and maybe didn't do it right in front of her. Larry wasn't going to turn instantly.

[dukeleto]

Originally Posted by NSS

Larry was already dead, pal. Try again.

Nope, he wasn't. Otherwise, Lee might have said that "Ok, Lilly. I'm so sorry... but he is all gone..." kinda quote.

Guys, please try to be reasonable. Even if he were dead, Kenny should respect Lilly's feelings. It's not only himself who cares for his family. And the only family is not his family. He suddenly came into HER group and started giving orders, making decisions, busting heads etc... So ridiculous.

I'm not supporting Lilly of course because of her murder. I think she is psychology ill in some way- too stressed, too sad, too desperate... And Carley (which I love most) really pushed her buttons.
And I'm trying to be reasonable with someone who makes instant deadly mistakes like Lilly. Her reacton was so humanistic to me- it was so primitive, it was so weak which makes all of us "human".
But I can't support someone whose actions are slippery, cowardy and treachery. And I can't call him a friend in long term. I don't know if I could express myself; I love Lilly because her mistake was about her wrong instincts, and I don't love Kenny because his (ton of) mistakeS were all about his personality.

You are completely free to love Kenny who always pushes you around, forcing you into hard situations, yelling at you, complaining you etc, and I can love an unfortunate murderer. I'm not even talking about claiming the leader role while Kenny has NO way anything about it. He was always all irritating with his words, with his ideas, and with his actions and I'm really speechless how can people call him "friend" after he pushes Lee away when Lee tried to talk to him on that train. Just weird but I guess this is all about perspective.

You may not agree with me about the things I listed above and I respect that. But, please
never and ever try to sweep under the carpet that Kenny's salty attempt was the first and deadly sin against Lee's group. They were so bound to each other, but with his selfishness around, everything started to crumble. I am sorry for you Kennylovers, but not Lilly, not Larry, not Ben, and even not radioman was the reason they are all dead and everything messed up. But with not giving respect to any others' feelings, Kenny did start everything.

MY LAST WORDS ABOUT KENNY ARE THESE: (And I'm serious with that, those moustaches took so much time from my life)
I prefer a "murderer" with a good attitude than a presuming traitor if I have to call someone "friend".

P.S: In fact, it is so funny I am still talking about this guy since the game is over and everything ended...
I must be really pissed off with Kenny

[CarScar]

Originally Posted by NSS

Larry was already dead, pal. Try again.

Although it's true that he may have died later or what have you, but he definitely wasn't dead at the time. If the player manages to give Larry five CPR reps he responds and takes a breath.

[Rock114]

It's not a breath, he just moves his mouth. It could be him turning for all we actually know.

And I don't see how Kenny actually pushes Lee around. I also don't see how Kenny got everyone killed. Yeah, the supplies in the car weren't abandoned, but exactly how many of us knew, right that second, that a family of four was currently using that food? Because at the time, not only was the group starving, but it had just lost two members and had another one wounded. The motel had a week's worth of food left if it were rationed. The group didn;t know that the bandits would attack, or that the radio guy would come back. Hindsight is 20/20 they say, so it may be easy to judge Kenny's actions now that we know Campman was still alive, but did you really expect the man to let his family starve to death because the food "might" have belonged to someone? If the bandits hadn't raided the motel, and the group had stayed, they would have all died without that food, slowly and painfully.

And him smashing Larry's head in was completely understandable. When you die, you come back no matter what unless the brain is destroyed. After Larry brought on his heart attack, he hit the ground. Reasons to kill him:

1. No pulse
2. He's not breathing.
3. There's no medicine for his heart.
4. The group is trapped in a confined space with a 6'4, 300 pound corpse who may very well become a walker.
5. The group has no weapons.
6. Two members of the group are being held at gunpoint outside, while another two are on their way with no idea of what they are walking into.

Reasons to try and save Larry:

1. He might be alive.
2. Lilly is there.

Seeing as how Lilly and Larry don't give two shits about anyone but themselves, judging by how they act toward everyone else in the group, why should Lee and Kenny put their lives, as well as Kat, Duck, Carley, Ben, and Clem on the line for those two? When Kenny became just as pragmatic as Lilly, he becomes a monster, but Lilly gets excused. Why is that? If it had been anyone but Larry that went down, Lilly would have been the first to grab a salt lick. If Kenny hadn't done what he'd done, there's a big chance that nobody would have made it back to the motel alive.

[plaqueconspiracy]

Originally Posted by Rock114

It's not a breath, he just moves his mouth. It could be him turning for all we actually know.

Just like you said, it could be him turning for all we know. It could also be him breathing for all we know. We don't know.

[CarScar]

Originally Posted by Rock114

It's not a breath, he just moves his mouth. It could be him turning for all we actually know.

Breathing = moving mouth, eh? I'm pretty sure it was suppose to show him breathing, Telltale just didn't make the animation for the movement fluid enough. I also don't think Telltale added it in for no reason, it means something (the meaning is to probably spur discussions like this). I know it varies between people but I don't think Larry would reanimate that fast. Still a possibility though.

Whether or not it was the right thing or not, I don't know. Killing him was probably the right thing to do, but as Katjaa puts it:

"Doing the right thing is just scary sometimes."

[NSS]

Originally Posted by dukeleto

Lots of reasons Kenny's the worst.

So Kenny's more responsible for everyone's death than Ben because...he traumatized Lilly? Are you serious?

We should just blame Larry for everything, then, since he refused to calm down and had the heart attack in the first place.

Or maybe the St. Johns, since they're the ones who put Larry in the high-stress situation.

Basically, find every way imaginable to deflect any real blame from Lilly. It's not her fault that she makes awful decisions and had her own ruthless pragmatism used against her by Kenny. She continues to be played up as a poor, helpless victim by all her defenders.

No accountability. Unless you're Kenny; then it's all your fault.

And yes, Kenny is incredibly flawed. Very incredibly flawed. But his flaws are balanced by a hard-working determination and love of family that's only rivaled by Lee. In fact, determination and love of family (Clementine) are basically the defining features of both Lee and Kenny. It's what makes them such a good team.

[NSS]

Originally Posted by CarScar

Breathing = moving mouth, eh? I'm pretty sure it was suppose to show him breathing, Telltale just didn't make the animation for the movement fluid enough. I also don't think Telltale added it in for no reason, it means something (the meaning is to probably spur discussions like this). I know it varies between people but I don't think Larry would reanimate that fast. Still a possibility though.

Whether or not it was the right thing or not, I don't know. Killing him was probably the right thing to do, but as Katjaa puts it:

"Doing the right thing is just scary sometimes."

Not breathing and having no pulse makes you clinically dead. Larry was dead when he hit the floor. It's been discussed ad nauseum earlier in this topic.

Regardless, any outside facts that neither Lee nor Kenny had access to (in other words, minute details about why Larry isn't dead, just taking a nap) can't be thrown in here. Lee and Kenny had seconds to make a decision.

[Will85]

Kenny is a dick with a very short memory of all the times Lee helps his family.

[Rock114]

Originally Posted by Will85

Kenny is a dick with a very short memory of all the times Lee helps his family.

Tell him that Clem's your family, and he'll acknowledge all the times you helped Kat and Duck and come with you. Doesn't sound like short memory to me.

[Cyreen]

Originally Posted by CarScar

I'm pretty sure it was suppose to show him breathing, Telltale just didn't make the animation for the movement fluid enough. I also don't think Telltale added it in for no reason, it means something (the meaning is to probably spur discussions like this).

Telltale knew exactly what they were doing and have specifically stated that the movement was intended to be ambiguous - dead or reanimating... oops.

Obviously they did their job right considering there are 62 pages of this discussion and it just keeps going.

[Fabrimuch]

Originally Posted by Rock114

Tell him that Clem's your family, and he'll acknowledge all the times you helped Kat and Duck and come with you. Doesn't sound like short memory to me.

Actually, I told him Clem was my family and he still didn´t come with me. Instead, he decided to tell me to go fuck myself.

So yeah, he does have short term memory, and a bad case of the dickish.

[Rock114]

Originally Posted by Fabrimuch

Actually, I told him Clem was my family and he still didn´t come with me. Instead, he decided to tell me to go fuck myself.

So yeah, he does have short term memory, and a bad case of the dickish.

I've never actually seen him tell anyone to go fuck themselves after they say Clem is family. And why wouldn't he be a dick? His own family died in front of him less than a day before Episode 4 even begins. He's not just going to shrug that off and say "Oh well, I did all I could."

[AnnaSan]

I sided with Lilly when Larry was dying, but with Danny I freaked out and he shot me. And on my second try, I was like KENNY SHOOT THIS F*CKER and he just hid there like a pansy and Lilly had to shoot him. ;_;

[Yertos]

Originally Posted by clekea

You do understand as long as you have his back he has yours right?

You make it sound like its crazy to not have his back all the time, but to do so isn't that easy.

EP1
Save Duck: Okay this is a pretty easy choice.
Side With Kenny: To side with him you have to aggressively say your gonna kick Larry's ass rather than reason with him. I wasn't on Larry's side here but because I wanted to be more diplomatic here and not aggressive I'm considered to be on Larry's side. This one is more on the dialogue option's fault than Kenny's.

EP2
Side with him over Lilly as Leader: He has okay opinions here but usually everyone chooses not to pick a side on this and wants a democracy.
Choose to kill Larry: This is the biggest choice in the whole game with Kenny's opinion on you and to make him like you, you have to smash a man's head in in front of his daughter. He was right but come on he handled it very poorly and impulsive.
Steal from the Van: Easier choice but still clearly the morally wrong choice and majority of people choose the option that is more "Nice guy Lee" than "Survivalist, Pragmatic Lee".

EP4
Side with his Boat Plan: I never believed his plan would work and never hid it from him and for that he hated me.
Kill Ben: Killing him because he makes bad decisions is wrong. The best way to handle that would be to either watch him better and treat him like one of the kids and not as an adult, or to kick him out of the group. Murder was not needed and just seems overkill.

Kenny isn't a bad man, but he is impulsive and doesn't like it when people don't agree him. He didn't change until after the boat was gone. The choices needed to have him stay on your good side are mostly the morally wrong option. (Murder, theft)

[CarScar]

^ there's also the choice to shoot Beatrice or not.

[Scaeva]

Larry was a walker waiting to happen.

Lilly's actions in the meat locker were driven by emotion rather than logic, and she was putting the entire group (including Clementine) in danger.

Larry had taken a massive heart attack. He was not breathing and had no pulse, and without the benefit of modern medicine there was no way he could survive. Keep in mind that this heart attack occurs after civilization has collapsed and when there are no paramedics or functioning hospitals, and with the group trapped in a meat locker. Larry's chance at survival even without Kenny introducing his face to a salt lick, was zero.

If Kenny hadn't dropped that salt lick on Larry, they would have had to battle a 6'4 300 lb enraged walker, after it had chewed Lilly's face off.

[AnnaSan]

Originally Posted by Scaeva

Larry was a walker waiting to happen.

Yeah, even if he lived, if he keeps on having those heart attacks without medication, he's dead.