The evolution of Kenny

[Scaeva]

Originally Posted by Yertos

Only example (Which isn't much) I can think of is when he told Clementine to get on the train after she mentions Duck is sick. Other then that I can't think of any time he is somewhat mean to her.

That is the only thing I can recall as well, but I didn't really see that as him being cruel to Clementine. It was just a grieving father not wanting to be confronted with the awful reality of what was going to happen to Duck.

Other than that I thought he was fairly kind to her, and in my game he chose to help rescue her. Even if Lee doesn't support Kenny in the meat locker, he can get Kenny to join the rescue mission by revealing he was bitten, and then appealing to Kenny to do it for Clementine. Even if Kenny holds a grudge against Lee, he'll join for the sake of Clementine.

[Mornai]

One thing he has going for him at the end of episode 4, initially at least, is that Kenny is willing to let Lee onto the boat knowing he is bitten(if it is revealed), and that they'll deal with it when the time comes. I think he has changed at this point, where previously he probably would have taken Lee out or completely abandoned him.

[DreadMagus]

Originally Posted by Sutinen

What game have you been playing? The first thing he says after the death of Shawn is "You got that ride to Macon if you want it" without Katjaa doing anything.

The walking dead. You?

Look at his face.

He'll look at you, then Kat, then Clem - THEN he'll say it.

[Demopan]

Originally Posted by Scaeva

Some of those things I don't think make Kenny an asshole.

Stealing food and supplies from the station wagon: The vehicle was found appearing to be abandoned, without any sign of whoever had driven it. For all Kenny or anyone else knew, it was just as likely that the 'owners' had gotten into trouble and died. It wasn't a clear cut case of taking something that you knew belonged to someone else.

Also the group was starving and desperate, and not taking the food and supplies could have potentially doomed them.


Leaving a girl to die on the street: She looked like she was almost a walker herself, and was acting crazy. Considering that she looked like Irene or post-bite Lee, there was nothing that could be done for her, and mercy-killing her would have just drew the attention of the zombies. Leaving her to die may be a tough choice, but it is also the right one.


Mean to Clementine: I can't really address that one, as I can't recall him ever being mean to her in the game. When does that happen?


Leaving Lilly behind: Lilly had just murdered Carley or Doug, either one of which was completely loyal to the group and had not been working with the bandits. In Carley's case, she was also with the possible exception of Lee the best fighter in the group, and as such one of the most useful members if you had to battle zombies or bandits.

So not only did Lilly commit one of the worst crimes of the Zombie Apocalypse (murdering a fellow survivor in cold blood, without cause) but she had potentially robbed the group of one of its most capable members, putting every one else in greater danger.

After murdering Carley or Doug, Lilly could not be trusted and fully deserved to be left on the side of the road.


Abandoning Lee in the Drugstore: This is the only thing posted where I agree that Kenny was being an asshole. He was being petty and letting personal grudges cloud his judgement.

By leaving Lilly behind, I mean before she killed someone. He tries to leave the motor inn without her.

[CarScar]

He does definitely develop into a much darker character between episodes one and three.

Episode One:

"I'm not letting anyone else get eaten today... even if he is an asshole."

Episode Three:

Kenny doesn't help you in the pharmacy if you don't aid him in killing Larry despite what you did for him in the previous episodes. Same in episode two with Danny.

Originally Posted by Demopan

By leaving Lilly behind, I mean before she killed someone. He tries to leave the motor inn without her.

... What makes you think that? He could have left right after Lee got in it, but he waited for Lilly to get down the stairs, he even backed up towards her. If he attempted to leave Lilly behind I'm sure someone would have mentioned it.

[Mornai]

Originally Posted by CarScar

... What makes you think that? He could have left right after Lee got in it, but he waited for Lilly to get down the stairs, he even backed up towards her. If he attempted to leave Lilly behind I'm sure someone would have mentioned it.

The only thing about him leaving Lilly is when he speaks the line "Screw her, let her stay!" when Lee is yelling at her to get on the RV. I don't think he meant that as a desire to leave her intentionally, more as a way of saying if she won't come down to the RV then she can stay behind.

[dukeleto]

Originally Posted by Wrighty

It should matter to you that the girl was bit, she had no chance of surviving which means the bullet would have been a mercy not to mention a danger to Lee and Kenny, as the sound could have attracted walkers.

And correction. He chose to guard the boat, instead of leaving it by itself to get stolen, and you didnt have his back or look after his family (Helping with Larry) so why should he risk all he has left, his final dream of freedom to help you? And youre Lee obviously wasnt his best friend, just a guy who didnt help him.

Who says it should matter to me that the girl was bit or not? No, it was never important in which condition she was, this is my ZA and I play this game by my own ethics. Ironically, I think I have more reasons to use the word -"should" to you, when someone's life is at stake.

You said "...and you didnt have his back or look after his family (Helping with Larry)... " but I don't think I helped Larry for anything. I helped Lilly by trying to keep her father alive, that's all. And by this, I NEVER believe I betrayed Kenny's family. Nonesense.

Ok my friend, you don't side with someone if he murdered someone for you or did not. And you don't call someone "friend" if he helped you to steal from a lone car or did not. This is ridiculous. Kenny's arguments for becoming friends were terrific.

The fact is I supported Kenny on most occasions even I was really pissed off by his stupidity. I never gave anybody any privilages, and I always tried to treat Kenny right as I tried for "everyone" !

I'll repeat myself here;
In spite of I were there for him for nearly all occasions, he was still acting like a loser just because I didn't smash Larry's head, didn't steal from a lone car, didn't leave the lone girl to suffer and didn't drop an innocent young man but other than these I was always there with ALL MY SUPPORT to see him satisfied?
How much was enough to see him acting like a real man? What did I do wrong to not receive at least such a little satisfaction? I was not expecting anything for Lee, if he could act rightfully in general, he would be ok for me like Larry.

But he chose to push me into hard situations.
Do you really think that any of my "failures" above is fail of "ethics" ?

Well my dear fellow, what type of a guy is that Kenny guy ? ? ?

Yes, I gave Larry a portion when rationing even he left me for death out there. So, after being such a nice guy even to someone like Larry, my Lee had some rights to expect a friendly approach from Kenny in the end, right?

Ok ok, never mind. Please just answer one question?
- Does it sound reasonable to you, you should commit an offense for gaining somone's trust and do you do these kind of dirty things to make him call you "friend"?

If you say "Yes", than it is meaningless to me to discuss this manner here with you any more.
And again if you say "Yes", it means your Lee died with lots of sins, mistakes and regrets, too.
Mark my word,
if you side Kenny with everything throughout the season, your Lee is responsible for many lives as much as Kenny, or Ben, or Lilly, or Radioman.

For me, LEEME was an honest, rightful, caring, respectful, representative, fair, booster, heroic, and most of all an unique man whom was well informed about his responsibilities and some hard duties.
My Lee died in honor. And this is all satisfying.

[thestalkinghead]

Originally Posted by dukeleto

The fact is I supported Kenny even I was really pissed off by his stupidity. I always tried to treat him right as I tried for "everyone" !

I'll repeat myself here;
In spite of I were there for him for nearly all occasions, he was still acting like a loser just because I didn't smash Larry's head, didn't steal from a lone car, didn't leave the lone girl to suffer and didn't drop an innocent young man but other than these I was always there with ALL MY SUPPORT to see him satisfied?
How much was enough to see him acting like a real man? What did I do wrong to not receive at least such a little satisfaction? I was not expecting anything for Lee, if he could act rightfully in general, he would be ok for me like Larry.

But he chose to push me into hard situations.
Do you really think that any of my "failures" above is fail of "ethics" ?

you mean, you were to afraid to make a tough decision and save the group, you tried to waste seriously needed supplies, and you killed a woman (bonus, kenny forgave ben and got over the death of his family in about 3 days = real man).

to claim your lee died a saint is just wrong, you can justify it anyway you want, your lee just needed kenny to do the hard stuff so you could feel good, without kenny Lee would probably be dead

[dukeleto]

Originally Posted by thestalkinghead

you mean, you were to afraid to make a tough decision and save the group, you tried to waste seriously needed supplies, and you killed a woman (bonus, kenny forgave ben and got over the death of his family in about 3 days = real man).

to claim your lee died a saint is just wrong, you can justify it anyway you want, your lee just needed kenny to do the hard stuff so you could feel good, without kenny Lee would probably be dead

Think about it again, who preferred the easiest choices? LEEME or otherLEEs...
I know it depends on different looking points, but I think I did the rightful things. I'm not saying I always knew the "right" thing to do- which is so blurry in that kind of a ZA.
And please don't defend me of cruelty-busting Larry-, of weakness -using that terrified woman's suffering to gain much time- and stealing from someone else -Because "stealing" from someone's car is different than "arsoning" some abondened shop-.
And yes I shot the woman on the street. I don't have regrets for doing so. Likewise, I prefer ending someone's suffering than "murdering" some passed out guy.

"your lee just needed kenny to do the hard stuff" you said...
Well, believe me no one could ever need such a loser like Kenny.
Kenny? You are talking about Kenny... Kenny doing dirty work?...
Really?
No need to continue at this point...

[thestalkinghead]

Originally Posted by dukeleto

Think about it again, who preferred the easiest choices? LeeYou or LeeMe...
I know it depends on different angles, but I think I did the rightful things.
And please don't defend me your cruelty, your weakness and stealing from someone. Because "stealing" from someone's car is different than "arsoning" some abondened shop.
And yes I killed her. I prefer ending someone's suffering than "murdering" some passed out guy.

"your lee just needed kenny to do the hard stuff" you said...
Well, believe me no one could ever need such a loser like Kenny.
Kenny? You are talking about Kenny... for doing dirty job?...
Really?
No need to continue at this point...

the stranger fucked up and got his family killed, by abandoning his car in such an abandoned state he gave away his supplies, he could have just said "hello" if he was near enough and his family would probably be alive.

larry had a heart attack and had previous history of needing a hospital to keep him alive, you seriously misunderstood if you thought he had just passed out, if kenny hadn't dropped that salt lick on larrys head they could all be dead.

would you have seen it as ethical to let 5 people die (4 in meat locker and duck) and one be captured(Katjaa)?

so yes LeeYou took the easy decision of leaving kenny to save your life and take all the heat by killing larry, by not being willing to hear the suffering of another that has maybe 1 more minute of life left, just to feel better about yourself in spite of the fact that there are 8 people suffering that have potentially years to live where every scrap of supplies they can get makes their life better and by caving into the puppy dog eyes of an 8 year old when it comes to decisions about survival

[dukeleto]

Originally Posted by thestalkinghead

the stranger fucked up and got his family killed, by abandoning his car in such an abandoned state he gave away his supplies, he could have just said "hello" if he was near enough and his family would probably be alive.

larry had a heart attack and had previous history of needing a hospital to keep him alive, you seriously misunderstood if you thought he had just passed out, if kenny hadn't dropped that salt lick on larrys head they could all be dead.

would you have seen it as ethical to let 5 people die (4 in meat locker and duck) and one be captured(Katjaa)?

so yes LeeYou took the easy decision of leaving kenny to save your life and take all the heat by killing larry, by not being willing to hear the suffering of another that has maybe 1 more minute of life left, just to feel better about yourself in spite of the fact that there are 8 people suffering that have potentially years to live where need every scrap of supplies they can get makes their life better and by caving into the puppy dog eyes of an 8 year old when it comes to decisions about survival

Man, don't blame yourself. It was not your fault you couldn't see the ending coming

I'm aware of Larry's condition. And I'm NOT arguing killing him. The thing here is,
KILLING HIM BEFORE UNDERSTANDING HIS CONDITION, SO FAST, SO CRUEL, AND SO UNRESPECTFULLY.
You Kennylovers can read, can't you?
People are complaining about the way he MURDERED, they are not arguing a necessary sacrifice, I mean KILLING HIM.
Anyway, the thing so sick and irritating here is- not knowing what his condition was before busting his head.
Is it really that hard to understand this?
And for one and last time,
NO ONE HAS RIGHT TO MAKE A DECISION ON HIS FATE, ESPECCIALLY WHILE HIS GIRL WAS AROUND. No matter what the consequences will be, they may have been all dead, they may have been all doomed , they may have been... etc etc.
Yes, no matter what may be the results, again, there is no right of him doing it. Who is Kenny? Executioner? Who said he could decide who will live, or who will die?
He can say " I did it for my family, and for my own life... My life was at stake, too", again this is ok for me too. But after he committed suicide and after he remained alive, he'd pay for what he did. If he only had the balls...
The thing I'm trying to say is here, HE MAY ACT AS HE WANTS OR AS HE FINDS NECESSARY (in spite of he has no right to do so) , BUT AFTER DOING THE DIRTY WORK HE MUST FACE WITH THE CONSEQUENCES. HE MIGHT HAVE TAKEN THE RESPONSIBILITY OF HIS ACTIONS. But he didn't.

If this is not enough, he dared to come with an argument with Lilly, about leaving or not leaving the motel. If I were him, I could never look into her eyes because of blaming myself. And mostly because of this, LeeMe didn't think busting Larry's head even just for only one second. I knew I will never explain Lilly how I could act that selfish and that cowardy.

AFTER DOING THE DIRTY WORK HE MUST FACE WITH THE CONSEQUENCES -
Kenny couldn't load his sins, but Lilly did. She left the group just after she murdered Carley.
You Kennylovers, I'm afraid you read the whole story&characters wrong.(as the Radioman ending proved so)
But no worries, maybe next season you can make the rightful choices, too

[thestalkinghead]

Originally Posted by dukeleto

Man, don't blame yourself. It was not your fault you couldn't see the ending coming

I'm aware of Larry's condition. And I'm NOT arguing killing him. The thing here is,
KILLING HIM BEFORE UNDERSTANDING HIS CONDITION, SO FAST, SO CRUEL, AND SO UNRESPECTFULLY.
You Kennylovers can read, can't you?
People are complaining about the way he MURDERED, they are not arguing a necessary sacrifice(to kill Larry).
Anyway, the thing so sick and irritating here is- not knowing what his condition was before busting his head.
Is it really that hard to understand this?
And for one and last time,
NO ONE HAS RIGHT TO MAKE A DECISION ON HIS FATE, ESPECCIALLY WHILE HIS GIRL WAS AROUND. No matter what the consequences will be, they may have been all dead, they may have been all doomed , they may have been... etc etc.
Yes, no matter what may be the results, again, there is no right of him doing it. Who is Kenny? Executioner? Who said he could decide who will live, or who will die?
He can say " I did it for my family, and for my own life... My life was on that stake, too", yes this is ok for me too. But after he committed suicide, and after he remained alive, he'd pay for what he did. If he only had the balls...
The thing I'm trying to say is here, HE MAY ACT AS HE WANT OR AS HE FINDS NECESSARY (in spite of he has no right to do so) , BUT AFTER DOING THE DIRTY WORK HE MUST FACE WITH THE CONSEQUENCES. HE MIGHT HAVE TAKEN THE RESPONSIBILITY OF HIS ACTIONS. But he didn't.
If this is not enough, he dared to come with an argument with Lilly, about leaving or not leaving the motel. If I were him, I could never look into her eyes because of blaming myself. And mostly because of this, I didn't think busting Larry's head even just for only one second. I knew I will never explain her how I could act that selfish.

Please read my one sentence above (with capital letters)
Kenny couldn't load his sins, but Lilly did. She left the group just after she committed suicide.
You Kennylovers, I'm afraid you read the whole story&characters wrong.(as the ending proved so)
But no worries, maybe next season you can make the rightful choices, too

so you are saying you do think it would be ethical to let 5 people die just so you don't hurt the feelings of lilly (before she dies) ?

if you were larry would you rather, die instantly making your daughter sad or eat your own daughter?

if you let me eat my own daughter i would haunt you and your descendants for all time for being so evil, i want a salt lick card to go along with my donor card

[dukeleto]

It is not important what I think or what you think. Please just focus one point:
Kenny had no right to bust Larry's face with that unrespectful way in front of Larry's daughter. No reasons are reasonable. And no consequences are important.
That's all.

[thestalkinghead]

Originally Posted by dukeleto

It is not important what I think or what you think. Please just focus here:
Kenny had no right to bust Larry's face with that unrespectful way. No reasons are reasonable. And no consequences are important.
That's all.

how could you respectfully save everybody's life and take out larry with a salt lick?
consequences are all that matter, death is a far worse consequence than being sad

[dukeleto]

Originally Posted by thestalkinghead

how could you respectfully save everybody's life and take out larry with a salt lick?
consequences are all that matter, death is a far worse consequence than being sad

I could wait until Lilly saw the situation is ending no good and until she accepts her father's fate. I'd tell her to go to a corner and cover her ears before making any attempt, though.
death is a far worse consequence than being sad- Think about this sentence of yours again if you've ever been in such situation with someone you terribly care for.

[thestalkinghead]

Originally Posted by dukeleto

I could wait until Lilly saw the situation is ending no good and until she accepts her father's fate. I'd tell her to go to a corner and cover her ears before making any attempt, though.
death is a far worse consequence than being sad- Think about this sentence of yours again if you've ever been in such situation with someone you terribly care for.

i don't think lilly would have just gotten over it and accepted larry's fate in the time frame required.

and thinking "death is a far worse consequence than being sad" would be the best way to think if you were depressed, the opposite if that way of thinking is suicidal

[dukeleto]

Originally Posted by thestalkinghead

i don't think lilly would have just gotten over it and accepted larry's fate in the time frame required.

and thinking "death is a far worse consequence than being sad" would be the best way to think if you were depressed, the opposite if that way of thinking is suicidal

Nope, wrong again.
I'd prefer to be dead instead of seeing a bloody brain storm of someone I care for and still I'm not suicidal.

"i don't think lilly would have just gotten over it and accepted larry's fate in the time frame required." you said.

Oh well... Then the solution is grabbing something heavy and end her meaningles grief? Stupid bit.h, she already caused us lose much time. Maybe we can smash her head too, after we deal with her father. So, we can get rid of her unnecessary crying and loud screams?

[thestalkinghead]

Originally Posted by dukeleto

Nope, wrong again.
I'd prefer to be dead instead of seeing a bloody brain storm of someone I care for and still I'm not suicidal.

"i don't think lilly would have just gotten over it and accepted larry's fate in the time frame required." you said.

Oh well... Then the solution is grabbing something heavy and end her meaningles grief? Stupid bit.h, she already caused us lose much time. Maybe we can smash her head too, after we deal with her father. So, we can get rid of her unnecessary crying and loud screams?

I'd prefer to be alive than be eaten by my father and turning into a zombie or somehow killed before i watch my father die.

"I'd prefer to be dead instead of seeing a bloody brain storm of someone I care for and still I'm not suicidal." you say, so you would prefer kenny used the salt lick on lilly first before larry, and that somehow would be better?

[dukeleto]

Originally Posted by thestalkinghead

I'd prefer to be alive than be eaten by my father and turning into a zombie or somehow killed before i watch my father die.

"I'd prefer to be dead instead of seeing a bloody brain storm of someone I care for and still I'm not suicidal." you say, so you would prefer kenny used the salt lick on lilly first before larry, and that somehow would be better?

Why this can not stay between me and my beloved or Lilly and her father?
Is there really supposed to be a Kenny around to think for others?

Enough Kenny for today. After so much talking, people may think that he really had progress on evolution.
Nice discussion though. I like you to get angry thestalkinghead, you know that? But, no harm done.
See ya

[thestalkinghead]

Originally Posted by dukeleto

Why this can not stay between me and my beloved or Lilly and her father?
Is there really be a Kenny around to think for others?

Enough Kenny for today. People may think that he had really a progress on evolution.
Nice discussion though. I like to angry you thestalkinghead, you know that? But, no harm done.
See ya

if it was left just between lilly and larry, kenny could have been killed so you cannot remove kenny from the equation

ok see ya i get the final word then, and therefore WIN