The "whatever's on your mind" thread

[Secret Fawful]

If you don't want to solve a puzzle, don't play games that contain puzzles. Adventure games aren't movies because they have good narrative, and they don't require flow. The point of a good adventure game is that the narrative can stop and let you explore around the game world. The narrative resumes once a puzzle is solved and stops again to let you go again. Puzzles don't need to be balanced out by story or by lowering the difficulty. Puzzles need to be balanced with PLAYER FREEDOM. That's why Back to the Future is a piece of shit, that's why Tales of Monkey Island is great, that's why Lucasarts games are great, that's why Sierra games are great, that's why Revolution games are great, that's why The Last Express is great, and that's why many jRPGs of the SNES era are great. Freedom. But don't blame the puzzle, don't blame the game, and don't treat the pace of the game like it's supposed to be a movie. It's not.

[16_BIT_MARIO1]

I personally feel like a game shouldn't just stop to puke the story down your throat for any reason that isn't actually dictated by the story itself (the player character being incapacitated and unable to move would be one such example) because we have this whole entire medium of storytelling that people just aren't taking advantage of ever and instead going to the easy way of making the player watch the story unfold as they do nothing, then making them do one or two more things before wrenching control away from them again and saying "AND THEN THIS HAPPENED" (spoilers: by this standard the entire point and click genre is poop)

[DAISHI]

Originally Posted by Secret Fawful

If you don't want to solve a puzzle, don't play games that contain puzzles. Adventure games aren't movies because they have good narrative, and they don't require flow. The point of a good adventure game is that the narrative can stop and let you explore around the game world. The narrative resumes once a puzzle is solved and stops again to let you go again. Puzzles don't need to be balanced out by story or by lowering the difficulty. Puzzles need to be balanced with PLAYER FREEDOM. That's why Back to the Future is a piece of shit, that's why Tales of Monkey Island is great, that's why Lucasarts games are great, that's why Sierra games are great, that's why Revolution games are great, that's why The Last Express is great, and that's why many jRPGs of the SNES era are great. Freedom. But don't blame the puzzle, don't blame the game, and don't treat the pace of the game like it's supposed to be a movie. It's not.

Player Freedom by its nature, means including the ability for a puzzle to be solved. It's why you have easy modes on games.

[Secret Fawful]

Originally Posted by DAISHI

Player Freedom by its nature, means including the ability for a puzzle to be solved. It's why you have easy modes on games.

That doesn't make any sense. I've never heard of an unsolvable adventure game, and I doubt very much you have either. If that was the case, said game wouldn't have a walkthrough, and I challenge you to find an adventure game not recently released that doesn't have a walkthrough.

I don't know if you guys have stopped to think about how subtle storytelling is in a lot of adventure games, and how much story is fed to you in the course of the gameplay. The only time that story actually grinds the game to a halt in many adventure games is when the player character isn't there. But that's necessary. In most adventure games, this doesn't even take that long, and most of the story-building unfolds as the player moves around and uncovers it.

You people keep fighting for this imaginary slight on videogames you imagine puzzles have caused, but what you don't seem to get is that without those puzzles these games wouldn't be GAMES anymore.

From Wikipedia: Games are structured playing. Key components of games are goals, rules, challenge, and interaction. Games generally involve mental or physical stimulation, and often both. Many games help develop practical skills, serve as a form of exercise, or otherwise perform an educational, simulational, or psychological role.

Stories in games are there for entertainment, as are settings, and to make games more interesting, but the GAME ITSELF in an adventure game is the fact that you must solve the tasks set before you using the inputs you are given. That is how adventure games work. Anything can be an adventure game. Contrary to popular belief, you can make an adventure game with a gun as your only input if you want to. You can make an adventure game with your colon as the only input if you want to. You can make an adventure game where you're a rock at the bottom of the ocean. As long as you can create an input, a goal, and a challenge, you can make an adventure game. When you take away the challenge, it's not a game for intelligence anymore. About the best it is is a game for kids. Hell, even when I was a child, I played adventure games. If you take away puzzles altogether, it's not an adventure game, it's just a set of menial tasks.

The difference is, player freedom is what adds the biggest element of ENJOYMENT and FUN. When I say player freedom, I don't mean godmode where Guybrush sees the Matrix code. Adventure games aren't GTA. There will always be some restrictions. Puzzles are restrictions. That's why you solve them. When I say player freedom, I mean let the player have room to breathe. And never ever push him at a puzzle. Let him initiate it on his own. Let him find it, say oh hey I have to do a thing here and something neat will happen or I'll find something or someplace or someone. And then figure it out. That's how it works.

By the way, I break the don't push the player rule at the beginning of my own game. I'm currently trying to figure out how to fix that.

[RingmasterJ5]

I should probably point out that this is what I kind of feared after seeing how popular TWD got, a whole new impatient audience thinking/expecting that adventure games are mainly story-focused experiences with LIGHT puzzle elements.

[GuruGuru214]

Originally Posted by Icedhope

You get an SIII?

Hells yes I did!

[Chyron8472]

Elf needs food badly.



I'm hungry.

[JordyLicht]

I love coffee... without coffee I wouldn't be alive.

[Johro]

Going for minor surgery today.

[StrongBrush1]

Originally Posted by RingmasterJ5

I should probably point out that this is what I kind of feared after seeing how popular TWD got, a whole new impatient audience thinking/expecting that adventure games are mainly story-focused experiences with LIGHT puzzle elements.

I don't know, I thought the Walking Dead (at least the first episode) required quite a few problem-solving skills. The challenge in TWD is not just that you've got to know what you're supposed to do, you've got to figure out the best way to go about doing it.

Originally Posted by Johro

Going for minor surgery today.

Good luck, dude.

[Secret Fawful]

I agree with SB. The Walking Dead presents a psychological challenge. I think that technically counts according to the definition.

[Avistew]

Boarding has started. I'm about to get back on a plane to France, again. I don't know when I'll get to be back, again. I don't know if next time is the one I'll be able to stay for good, again.
This is annoying, but starting to just get familiar. Not sure if I am happy about it.

[DAISHI]

99,000 words written.

[Johro]

I survived.

[WarpSpeed]

Originally Posted by Avistew

Boarding has started. I'm about to get back on a plane to France, again. I don't know when I'll get to be back, again.

Bon Voyage! You could try to convince him to come out there to see you, too, y'know. Or both fly to Canada.

Originally Posted by Johro

I survived.

Congratulations! Time for a celebration, subject to whatever follow-up medications you might have to be taking!

[Johro]

endocet.

[Secret Fawful]

yay my game A Night At Camp Ravenwood was on PC Gamers Top Games of 2013 Lineup. what a happy

it's time to sell out and jump the shark

[Johro]

That's awesome, man

[Icedhope]

Originally Posted by Secret Fawful

yay my game A Night At Camp Ravenwood was on PC Gamers Top Games of 2013 Lineup. what a happy

it's time to sell out and jump the shark

Hey, hey. If your going to sell out I want to be your agent so I can sell you, while your selling out.

[Noname215]

I’ve been practicing the harmonica for eight straight hours. I feel good.