So who felt sorry for Ben?

[DatDude]

I kept him alive after episode 4, and he had a really nice speech when fighting with Kenny.

He was basically saying that he never got to say goodbye to his parents (with his voice breaking and almost in a tear like state), and that at least kenny got to say goodbye to his.

He was a fuck up. I think he knew that pretty much as well. But I still forgave him, regardless of all the shit that came with him.

[BenIsKindaCool]

Me..I remember,listening the unused lines for episode..2? I think it was..And they we're talking about what happend Ben before a bit..I wished that they left it in the game.I don't really remember what there was,but it was horrible.Oh..I found it
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Djj5wqSrNxA

Maybe people wouldn't hate Ben so much..

[Mornai]

I felt bad for him. Can you imagine being in his shoes? Knowing that you got people killed, emotionally damaged people permanently, thinking how useless you are, never doing anything right, constantly putting people in danger...plus the deal with his family. Poor kid... i don't blame him for wanting to die.

[Phil_TWD]

Ben was an asshole that got people killed due to his actions. I didn't feel bad for his death, and Kenny should have left him there for the walkers and save himself.

It was suicide for Kenny.

[Lego]

It's tough he indirectly killed chuck and kat. But what really bugs me is that he practically murdered Carly by keeping his mouth shut to save his own ass. The fact that lee never blames Ben for her death puzzles me. Also Lilly kills one person and gets thrown to the side. But Bens actions kills 3 people and he gets a slap on the wrist! Tough call.

[Mornai]

Originally Posted by Lego

Also Lilly kills one person and gets thrown to the side. But Bens actions kills 3 people and he gets a slap on the wrist! Tough call.

Yeah but there's a huge difference there. Ben performed actions that indirectly led to death without intentions to do so, and Lilly directly performed murder and wanted to do it. Plus i think it's more Carley's fault she got killed, not Ben's. If she had stayed quiet, Lilly would have eventually killed Ben if he didn't fess up or blame Carley, and probably kill him even if he did. She only killed Carley because she got tired of her crap and took a stand.

[CarScar]

I initially felt sad about the kid but following the end of the series I came to realize how much I hated him. He had so little redeeming qualities, he was dumb, pissy, a coward, a walking liability... I would have felt more sympathetic towards him if he wasn't always giving me lip for no reason.

"Ben I agree, you should tell Kenny. Just not now, not while we're on a super dangerous mission."
"Yeah, I feeeeel you bro."

Yeah, yeah he's just a kid blablah. I'm 17, a year younger than Ben, and I can honestly say that in those situations I wouldn't be as dumb as Ben. It's true that I don't know what I'd be like, I'd probably be a mess, but I know I wouldn't:

A. Take the axe out of the door
B. Wouldn't make deals with bandits by myself
C. Wouldn't confess to a crime right when zombies are moments away from killing us

I'd also at least try to be respectful, especially after everything that I done. Literally the only time I liked Ben was when he talked back to Kenny. Every other time he was sitting there quietly killing everyone.

"Ben, where's Clementine?!"
"HOW SHOULD I KNOW! God."

[Lego]

Originally Posted by Mornai

Yeah but there's a huge difference there. Ben performed actions that indirectly led to death without intentions to do so, and Lilly directly performed murder and wanted to do it. Plus i think it's more Carley's fault she got killed, not Ben's. If she had stayed quiet, Lilly would have eventually killed Ben if he didn't fess up or blame Carley, and probably kill him even if he did. She only killed Carley because she got tired of her crap and took a stand.

She killed Carly because the truth hurt. Lol yes Lilly did perform murder. But Ben being a coward and not telling the truth and letting others take the bullet for you is also bad. Ben is so bad at one point Cleminte tells lee your leaving him to watch me. Lol basically a 9 year old realized how much of a coward he was and that she had more guts then him.

[anonymau5]

Originally Posted by CarScar

I initially felt sad about the kid but following the end of the series I came to realize how much I hated him. He had so little redeeming qualities, he was dumb, pissy, a coward, a walking liability... I would have felt more sympathetic towards him if he wasn't always giving me lip for no reason.

"Ben I agree, you should tell Kenny. Just not now, not while we're on a super dangerous mission."
"Yeah, I feeeeel you bro."

Yeah, yeah he's just a kid blablah. I'm 17, a year younger than Ben, and I can honestly say that in those situations I wouldn't be as dumb as Ben. It's true that I don't know what I'd be like, I'd probably be a mess, but I know I wouldn't:

A. Take the axe out of the door
B. Wouldn't make deals with bandits by myself
C. Wouldn't confess to a crime right when zombies are moments away from killing us

I'd also at least try to be respectful, especially after everything that I done. Literally the only time I liked Ben was when he talked back to Kenny. Every other time he was sitting there quietly killing everyone.

"Ben, where's Clementine?!"
"HOW SHOULD I KNOW! God."

1. He had indirectly caused the death of multiple people. That was weighing down his conscience. I'm sure you don't know how you would react to that.
2. He has been treated like shit ever since he joined the group, with the only person not yelling at him all the time was a little girl.
3. You liked him when he talked back to Kenny, but not to you, after you've been almost as bad as Kenny was to him?
4. He made that deal with the bandits to keep the group safe. He didn't tell anyone about it, because everything he had done so far had made everyone shout about kicking him out of the group. If he had come to the group sooner Lily might have kicked him out or shot him. Even he was smart enough to know that.

[Mornai]

Originally Posted by anonymau5

4. He made that deal with the bandits to keep the group safe. He didn't tell anyone about it, because everything he had done so far had made everyone shout about kicking him out of the group. If he had come to the group sooner Lily might have kicked him out or shot him. Even he was smart enough to know that.

Actually in episode 3 he states he made the deal because the bandits said they had his friend. He kept it going to keep the group safe.

[CarScar]

Originally Posted by anonymau5

1. He had indirectly caused the death of multiple people. That was weighing down his conscience. I'm sure you don't know how you would react to that.

Those people died due to his own:

A. Cowardice (Carley / Doug / Charles)
B. Stupidity (Brie)
C. Mistakes (Duck / Katjaa)

He can feel as bad as he wants but he still killed those people. It's true I don't know how I'd react but all I know is I would try my damnest for events like those not to occur again and I'd imagine I'd be remorseful, rather then randomly be pissed.

2. He has been treated like shit ever since he joined the group, with the only person not yelling at him all the time was a little girl.

How do you know this? Lilly probably treated him like shit only because she treats pretty much everyone like that. It's canon that Carley / Doug both cared about him (hell one of them died defending him and the other took a bullet for him). There's absolutely no way Katjaa treated him like shit, I'd imagine she would be somewhat motherly towards him, like she is to everyone (especially towards the kids). Duck, while being stupid, is also by no means mean. Clem obviously liked him, I actually question if she had a small crush on him. My Lee was not mean to him too. I'd imagine Kenny and Ben didn't communicate much.

3. You liked him when he talked back to Kenny, but not to you, after you've been almost as bad as Kenny was to him?

Eh, I don't know about you but my Lee was pretty understanding and caring towards Ben despite knowing the truth. Worst thing I said to him was that if he put Clementine in danger again there'd be trouble (little did I know he'd put Clem in danger twice more in the same episode ). Don't get me wrong I don't think he deserved to die, I just don't like him and feel very little sympathy towards him.

4. He made that deal with the bandits to keep the group safe. He didn't tell anyone about it, because everything he had done so far had made everyone shout about kicking him out of the group. If he had come to the group sooner Lily might have kicked him out or shot him. Even he was smart enough to know that.

Only person who would be pissed is Lilly, literally everyone (except maybe Kenny) would want him to stay and defend him. He should have at least told Lee then the whole assault would not have happened. Instead he holds it in. Maybe it wouldn't be the greatest idea while on the roadside when Lilly reached her breaking point, he was afraid of being kicked out. Maybe Lilly would have even shot him, but if he did tell the truth there I'd have so much more respect for him.

My point being is that I don't like how Ben is acquitted for being a coward, a jerk, a liability, and a dumb ass simply because he is 18.

[Ygdrasel]

Ben was the weakest link in the chain. When he pulled the hatchet out of that door holding back the walkers, I swear I wanted to beat him down. I struggled a bit on the pivotal choice: Save him or not. In the end, I did...Because he didn't kill Kenny's family, as much as Kenny thought so. He was a complete screw up but I had to keep the group together...He proved himself in the end. They both did. As much of an asshole Kenny had been to both Ben and myself, he faced up to his mistakes when Ben finally went off on him. And Ben finally did do something right. I respect the hell out of both of them.

Ben was a complete mess but he did what he thought was needed. Everyone did.

[Ygdrasel]

Originally Posted by CarScar

Those people died due to his own:

A. Cowardice (Carley / Doug / Charles)
B. Stupidity (Brie)
C. Mistakes (Duck / Katjaa)

He can feel as bad as he wants but he still killed those people.

He didn't kill any of those people. Killing someone requires direct involvement in bringing their life to an end. He made mistakes and people ended up dead. That's regrettable but it isn't the same as killing them. If the player makes a choice to save Doug, do they kill Carley? No. The walkers do it.

And Katjaa fell by her own hand. That was all on her. Kenny powered through. She was weak and selfish.

[Kaserkin]

"Kill" is a big word for what Ben did. He didn't WANT to kill and didn't know the consequences of what he was doing. The only thing bad thing I can say about him is that he shouldn't have told Kenny what happened at the motor inn.
The characters that have "died because of Ben" didn't. Chuck and Doug died like heroes, and you should respect their sacrifice. Carley's death is only Lilly's fault. Duck was bit. Katjaa made a choice, she took her life because she couldn't lve without her son. Brie's death is also her own fault.

[Ygdrasel]

Originally Posted by Kaserkin

he shouldn't have told Kenny what happened at the motor inn.

Why?

[Psyconix]

I kept him alive, but didn't felt sorry for him. He was responsible for the death of Kenny's family and failed to protect Clementine. He actually put the whole group in danger. So, as much as I liked him, I was fine with what happend to him.

[Kaserkin]

It was a mistake. He shouldn't have done it because Kenny wasn't ready to accept it. He should have waited.

[Rock114]

While Ben may not have directly killed anyone, the deaths ARE a direct result of his actions. If it weren't for him, the gorup would be in a much different place in Episode 5 than it wound up (if that is something better or worse is up for debate). During Crawford though? The stuff he did there goes beyond just fucking up. Not only did he let the walkers in, which results in someone being killed and possibly someone else being left behind, he spills his guts about Kat and Duck while the walkers he let in are breaking down the door. Not only did his earlier actions (only days before, mind you) lead to the deaths of Kenny's family, but he tells the man that as the walkers he allowed inside are about to kill everyone. It would have been so much better if he could have waited 20 goddamn minutes til everyone got back to the mansion! Tell Kenny there if it's so urgent, but not when shit is hitting the fan!

[CarScar]

Originally Posted by Ygdrasel

He didn't kill any of those people. Killing someone requires direct involvement in bringing their life to an end. He made mistakes and people ended up dead. That's regrettable but it isn't the same as killing them. If the player makes a choice to save Doug, do they kill Carley? No. The walkers do it.

And Katjaa fell by her own hand. That was all on her. Kenny powered through. She was weak and selfish.

Cause the death of (a person, animal, or other living thing).
Put an end to or cause the failure or defeat of (something).

Ben caused the death of all those people, killed is a much broader term then murder. Would it really even matter if I said "indirectly caused the death" instead of "killed."

Katjaa killed herself because she succumb to the pain of losing a child. A pain no parent should ever have to go through. Ben is the reason why Duck was bitten, the reason she felt that pain and killed herself.

"... I love our son more than life itself..."

[Ygdrasel]

Originally Posted by Psyconix

I kept him alive, but didn't felt sorry for him. He was responsible for the death of Kenny's family

Ben did not clamp a walker's teeth down onto Duck. Ben did not pull the trigger when Katjaa put a gun to her own head.

Duck's death was a tragedy that could have happened just as well without Ben. Katjaa's death was a suicide and she ALONE is responsible. And wasn't Duck bitten before Ben ever showed up? Kat and Kenny said he wasn't but they aren't the most reliable sources in that scenario...

@Kaserkin: Ben would have been waiting forever. Kenny never would have accepted it. It was only via Ben telling him (or, more accurately, the resulting argument and Ben's outburst) that Kenny calmed his shit down and saw some reason.