Ben

[ZeroShoot]

Oh another thing, he slipped the bandits supplies because they said they had a friend of his as a hostage, didn't he? I bet my ass he didn't even ask them something like: "okay, if you have my friend, what's his name?" Those are people who kill other people, attack them, threaten them, but Ben believes that there is no way they would lie to him?

[The Fallen]

Originally Posted by Platinumb

It seems that most of what Ben took for the bandits were hard drugs like Oxycontin for them to get high off of, not so much food or "necessary" medicine.

Having drugs to relieve pain would be nice, but not necessary to heal someone from bad injury or illness.

I agree 100% he should have confided in someone who wasn't Lilly, especially if Lee had been super-nice to him, but I have an inkling he might have in Carley just by the way she acted and where she was standing during the beginning of Episode 3.

It would have made sense to tell Carley. She comes across as quite understanding and Lilly implies they spoke a lot, but i don't think he did.

She speaks to Lee in that very scene about how its better his secret is revealed by him rather than Lilly so if she knew she'd probably have said the same to Ben rather than ask Lee to investigate and potentially have him get found out.

[Rock114]

Originally Posted by Platinumb

I think he was numb/in shock at that point. He does say he thinks he hurt his leg; he probably can't even feel the spike in his chest (So I can't give him kudos for not screaming/carrying him on there!)

Well, shock or not, he looks at the thing so he knows its in there. In his defense, I would have probably screamed "What the fuck?!" in his position. I mean, seriously. After seeing the spike through him, Ben finally knew what Lee and the player felt in Crawford when he showed them his borrowed hatchet.

[FarmerJoe]

I'm sure others already know but I only found this out recently.You can have Lee interact with Ben when he's choosing what to do with the teacher caught in the bear trap,I can't believe that I always missed this in my previous playthroughs!

Lee can talk with Ben 3 or 4 times and try to reassure him(he's panicking,what a surprise!) until Lee finally tells him to shut up and Ben answers back with "screw you man!" and then storms off
it made me laugh.

[The Fallen]

Originally Posted by Rock114

Well, shock or not, he looks at the thing so he knows its in there. In his defense, I would have probably screamed "What the fuck?!" in his position. I mean, seriously. After seeing the spike through him, Ben finally knew what Lee and the player felt in Crawford when he showed them his borrowed hatchet.

My impression was that the impact/pain/blood loss was making him delirious. He actually seemed quite happy at one point.

[ColtPeacemaker00]

Originally Posted by Rock114

I don't hate Ben, even though I've called him retarded a few times. He is, but I don't hate him. He's also (or at least used to be) a huge coward. Personally, I agree that handing the bandits some supplies so that they stop trying to murder us is a good thing, but only as long as everyone knows about it. What if Lee got shot, or broke a leg on a supply run to Macon? Kenny barely manages to haul him back to the motor inn, blood everywhere and walkers on their tail, Lee starts to fade, so Lilly runs to get some medicine. But wait! There's a plot twist! There's not enough medicine to save him because someone didn;t let the group know that they didn't have as may supplies as they thought they did. Lee dies. Stuff like that could have happened to anyone because Ben never told the group. If he'd come forward with the bandits' offer before the raid, and asked what I thought, I'd tell him he was actually pretty smart to think of ggetting the bandits off our backs that way. Hell, I'd even go up to Lilly and say "We should really do this, sooner or later the bandits will get lucky." But nope. He kept it from us, which resulted in the raid. Then the group imploded.

I'm not saying it was solely Ben. Everyone in the group had a part in its failure. Larry being an asshole to anyone who wasn't named Lilly, Kenny and Lilly always fighting to be the leader, Carley/Doug, Lee, Mark, and Katjaa for not getting more involved and letting the two of them slug it out like they did. Kenny killing Larry (even though I sided with him and think it had to be done, this was still an important factor). Ben's majorly stupid handling of the bandit situation was the final straw that broke the group, but it could have been prevented, or at least lessened if he'd actually come forward earlier.

It's just a shame he dies no matter what. I actually started to warm up to the kid in Episode 5 (secondary save file. I dropped him in my main play). He actually stands up for himself, and doesn't feel obligated to always agree with Kenny because of Kat and Duck. He gains confidence and competence. When the walkers are breaking down the doors and storming the house, he isn't panicking. He's actively helping the group hold the line, and even manages to shoot two walkers in the stand at the attic ladder, which is quite impressive since we've never seen him fire a gun until that point. He has enough of what few wits he has about him, and saves Carley's Glock for Lee when he drops it. He even actually manages to be really quiet in the alley for someone who just got impaled through the chest by a metal spike after falling two stories. When the walkers are closing in, he doesn't say "Save me, please!", he just says "Don't let them get me!" He realized exactly how bad the situation was, and wanted them to just shoot him and run instead of dying trying to save him. Given enough time, he could have become an important and able member of the group. RIPieces Ben.

I agree with alot of what you say here bud, I believe most of the meds that the bandits wanted were opium based, at least I think I recall Lilly informing Lee that most of the missing meds were, and were obviously used by the group as painkillers, but probably by the bandits to get high. Good to ease the pain but no real medicinal value. There must have been some anti-biotics but it seems the bandits were looking more to party than for any healing properties.

[Rock114]

Originally Posted by ColtPeacemaker00

I agree with alot of what you say here bud, I believe most of the meds that the bandits wanted were opium based, at least I think I recall Lilly informing Lee that most of the missing meds were, and were obviously used by the group as painkillers, but probably by the bandits to get high. Good to ease the pain but no real medicinal value. There must have been some anti-biotics but it seems the bandits were looking more to party than for any healing properties.

I thought she said that the anti-biotics were going missing as well. Run out of those without knowing it, and someone is going to have a very bad day the next time they get sick.

[Platinumb]

Originally Posted by ZeroShoot

Oh another thing, he slipped the bandits supplies because they said they had a friend of his as a hostage, didn't he? I bet my ass he didn't even ask them something like: "okay, if you have my friend, what's his name?" Those are people who kill other people, attack them, threaten them, but Ben believes that there is no way they would lie to him?

Playing the game again, I notice Ben says "he" in reference to the friend the bandits supposedly kidnapped, which means they didn't keep a female companion of his as a sex slave. Which means:
1) yeah, that was pretty stupid of Ben
2) he really was lying to Lee about why he was helping about the bandits

[Platinumb]

Originally Posted by The Fallen

She speaks to Lee in that very scene about how its better his secret is revealed by him rather than Lilly so if she knew she'd probably have said the same to Ben rather than ask Lee to investigate and potentially have him get found out.

good point. she can't know for sure if she says it's smart for Lee to follow up on stolen supplies.

[Platinumb]

Originally Posted by Rock114

Well, shock or not, he looks at the thing so he knows its in there. In his defense, I would have probably screamed "What the fuck?!" in his position. I mean, seriously. After seeing the spike through him, Ben finally knew what Lee and the player felt in Crawford when he showed them his borrowed hatchet.

I think Ben knew what that "borrowed" hatchet meant as soon as the zombies busted through the glass doors :P

[Jaded X Gamer]

Originally Posted by Platinumb

I think Ben knew what that "borrowed" hatchet meant as soon as the zombies busted through the glass doors :P

[J_Scheff]

Originally Posted by Platinumb

He was scared of Lilly. That doesn't justify him not telling others, but I have an inkling he might have told Carley (if you saved her). She was also up high, watching, even without a gun, in the direction of the "X." And she defended him from Lilly's accusations.

Also, he wasn't a moron. He made up a communication system for the bandits that could have easily been deduced as the kids' scribbles.

He WAS cowardly in the face of imminent danger.

Speculation of Carley knowing is grabbing at straws. No sense in hypotheticals either.

When the Bandits broke in, she obviously wasnt on the balcony as she was before, because she was held at gun point on the ground. If the bandits yelled for her to come down the others, like Lee and Lilly would have known something was up before they found out later.

He drew an X with pink chalk. He through a piece of equipment valued by the group (Flashlight) in the garbage for anyone to see. He left a Scuff of pink chalk leading out of the gate. Yes he was definitely not a moron.

People tell you who they really are when they are faced with a difficult situation. If Ben was a coward when it mattered most... I would not trust that prick with my child.

[Platinumb]

Originally Posted by J_Scheff

If Ben was a coward when it mattered most... I would not trust that prick with my child.

What does Lee trusting only Ben with Clem say about Lee, then?

[J_Scheff]

Originally Posted by Platinumb

What does Lee trusting only Ben with Clem say about Lee, then?

Im confused about when you are talking I (Lee) never once told Ben that I trust him, and especially not with Clem.

I also never noticed the smiley buttons lol

[Platinumb]

Originally Posted by J_Scheff

Im confused about when you are talking I (Lee) never once told Ben that I trust him, and especially not with Clem.

I also never noticed the smiley buttons lol

Lee yells at Ben about not watching Clem regardless of whether or not you entrust him with doing so, though, no?

[Platinumb]

P.S. Smiley buttons are the best way to communicate on the Internet

[J_Scheff]

Originally Posted by Platinumb

Lee yells at Ben about not watching Clem regardless of whether or not you entrust him with doing so, though, no?

Haha well its a given. Its everyones responsibility to keep Clem Safe. If Lee cant get to her in time, whoever is closest is responsible for her safety. I would be pissed if my little girl was trapped with someone and they just left her for dead. If im not around to protect my girl, i will trust that the member of my group will. And if they dont They better pray to whoever they believe in because I wouldnt have just yelled at Ben for leaving my girl out to die, I would have beat him to a pulp.

[Platinumb]

Originally Posted by J_Scheff

Haha well its a given. Its everyones responsibility to keep Clem Safe. If Lee cant get to her in time, whoever is closest is responsible for her safety. I would be pissed if my little girl was trapped with someone and they just left her for dead. If im not around to protect my girl, i will trust that the member of my group will. And if they dont They better pray to whoever they believe in because I wouldnt have just yelled at Ben for leaving my girl out to die, I would have beat him to a pulp.

I meant when you actually yell at Ben for not watching her.

Granted, she "escaped" when he was helping Christa drag Omid up the stairs, so I think Lee should have been yelling at Kenny for getting drunk and not being the one to help drag his ass up.

[Rock114]

I wasn't all that mad at Kenny. Out of everyone in the group, he was the one who would be most likely to end up with a bottle. His family died just the day before, and he learned they were all fucked. Christa needs to take care of Omid, leaving Ben. The guy who I specifically instructed to watch over Clementine while Ken and I were down by the river. Yeah, I picked that dialogue option. He had to start making up for the shit with the bandits and leaving Clem in the street. So, figuring the house was as safe a place as any to let my adopted 9-year-old hang around an idiotic, cowardly, traitor, I certainly was surprised when she showed up on River Street. Not that I needed her help anyway, after taking Molly down like a boss.

As Lee said to Ben when he got back : "You had one job." And then he said he let her play outside. In the backyard. Alone and unsupervised. Surrounded by walkers. Being stalked by a mysterious entity likely hell-bent on killing us all, then kidnapping Clem. And this was after letting her get out and wander around a walker infested city all by herself. Then he tells me to lay off. I had it with him then.

[Rommel49]

Originally Posted by The Fallen

The Bandits didn't attack before, they just harassed them (arrows in the wall). It also made a huge difference that it was Ben on watch who was expecting them and so didn't raise the alarm. Had it been Carley or Lilly they probably wouldn't have got close.

Actually, there's bullet holes in the wall too; one doesn't waste ammunition they can't readily replace for weeks (timeframe given by Kenny) unless they're pants on head retarded or actually attacking.

Originally Posted by Platinumb

It seems that most of what Ben took for the bandits were hard drugs like Oxycontin for them to get high off of, not so much food or "necessary" medicine.

Having drugs to relieve pain would be nice, but not necessary to heal someone from bad injury or illness.

The very first thing Lilly lists as being stolen are antibiotics. Those are going to be absolutely vital in a survival situation, and once they're gone, they're gone - the store shelves ain't getting restocked.

Even stuff like narcotics could be necessary depending on the situation; if someone's in enough pain, they can't function at all. Best case, that means an unproductive member of the group that's a drain on resources and morale while moaning and curled in the fetal position; worst case, that person's dead if they need to move in a hurry - there's a reason medics in the military still carry morphine and DARPA's working on a new auto-injector system for individual troops to self-administer the stuff themselves.