Why I don't want Clem or Kenny back

[RobtMyers]

The phrase "the lady or the tiger" comes from a famous allegorical short story of the same name. Wikipedia has a short synopsis of it here, which will make some of my points below clearer.

I think there are many the similarities between that story and TWD — particularly the ending. What does Clementine choose to do? Lee/the player have spent the entire game instructing her, either directly or by example, in how to behave in the harsh world she's now in.

Will she make the right choice? Is there a right choice? At this point between seasons, there isn't. Just as in TLoTT, it's up to the audience to determine what happens next. The same goes for Kenny, but in a less layered fashion.

And I think that's how it should stay.

Ambiguity is pretty unpopular with American audiences. For a good example consider the backlash over the last scene of "The Sopranos." Short version: (Tony was killed in front of his family and never saw it coming, just like the audience didn't.) Even though clues as to what definitively happened are all over the place, the fact that it wasn't explicitly stated and shown created a lot of confusion, anger and resentment amongst viewers immediately after it aired. Luckily many people eventually got over it and now recognize it for the courageous artistic choice it was.

So I think if TTG continues Clementine's story in S2 it will undermine S1 as a single complete work. Like TLoTT, the theme of TWD is choice in the face of uncertainty. To know what the outcome is ruins the work's ability to evoke that feeling of teetering on the edge of a precipice. The game worked so hard to create that feeling and to use it to manipulate audience emotions that I think releasing the tension of not knowing would be doing the story a disservice. As the central emotion, I think that's the one we should be left with.

To know who those figures on the hill are would be like knowing why the Mona Lisa smiles, or how a magic trick works. The answer might be clever, interesting, or even impressive, but it will never be as compelling as not knowing. It's the mystery and feeling of uncertainty which makes the ending so powerful.

Besides, there are only three things that can happen anyway.

1. She's rescued and survives. Not only is this counter to the property's standard of "no one is safe," it can't be conclusive because the story of that world doesn't skip ahead by decades.
2. She dies. This one sucks for the obvious reason that it means that all the player's/Lee's effort was for nothing.
3. The cycle starts all over again with another person guarding her. This sucks because: We've already played that story; It turns Lee into just her first surrogate parent; It basically turns Clem into a football that the player must carry to the end of the current narrative. As much as I loved that fictional little girl I want to play TWD, not "Babysitter vs. Zombies 2."

If I was forced by TTG to decide what happened to Clem, I'm not sure what I would pick. But whatever I decided could never be as emotionally powerful as the feeling of not knowing.

So I hope the developers consider this as a serious option.

But if they do go this route, I hope they let the players know up front that that's what they're doing and why. I think modern audiences can understand things like that. People are increasingly genre savvy and comfortable with analyzing works while still enjoying them. Once the realm of creators, critics, and obsessive fans, I think more people can now take things like authorial intent into account when reflecting on works of art.

[thestalkinghead]

i trust telltale will do a good job of season 2, so even though i love the characters in the first season and i didn't know them before i played it so there is no reason i couldn't love a completely different set of characters.

maybe even Clementine could have immortal child syndrome and become a bit annoying if it became the walking Clementine game, i don't know, but i think they should just do whatever they think is the best story they can do, and whether that involves Clementine or not is up to them

[CarScar]

No Kenny? Yes. No Clem? Hell no. That would be absolutely horrid, everything Lee accomplished is seen through Clem. If Clem disappears, Lee's presence disappears as well. Lee was an amazing character and protagonist. He deserves better, I don't want him to be forgotten. There wouldn't even be a point in transfering season one game files if they did that. It would be made worse with that ending, it would just be a giant middle finger to the audience.

[Shrewsbury Survivor]

Id kill Clem at the end of Season 2. I think closures better and as stated you dont have to become a surrogate. Could try a sibling style relationship. At the end of season 2 end it. Imagine the cryin Season 1 had... times 100.
I think if they just leave the story its bad writing. Kirkmans comic was the pkint of whats next. Storys get stopped too soon in the Zombie drama. The Walking Dead is about a continuing syory not leaving till they die. Just leaving it is a cop out like makong Lee immune to walkers.
As I said Clem dieing to end S2 would be just heart breaking.

[leeclem]

Killing Clem would be a big mistake and a bad idea. I think many players will feel like they've been betrayed if Clem dies, and they will also feel like they wasted alot of time of making important choices to form her character and morale.

I'm fine with playing a new protagonist in season 2, but only if Clem lives. Why? Because I spent so much time on making the right choices, and keeping her safe. Clem is the legacy of Lee, she's the light in a dark world.

And if they killed both Clem and Kenny, it would feel like playing a different game. Then all the characters from the earlier episodes in season 1 would be dead, and that would be really bad storytelling.

Look at Mass Effect for example. Some of the squad members in Mass Effect 1&2 are not part of your crew in Mass Effect 3. But they make cameos in missions or a dialogue option, and it ties it all togheter. So if they kill Clem, it will feel like TT don't care about my choices at all. Lee may the protagonist in the first season, but Clem is the most important person.

[thestalkinghead]

Originally Posted by leeclem

Killing Clem would be a big mistake and a bad idea. I think many players will feel like they've been betrayed if Clem dies, and they will also feel like they wasted alot of time of making important choices to form her character and morale.

I'm fine with playing a new protagonist in season 2, but only if Clem lives. Why? Because I spent so much time on making the right choices, and keeping her safe. Clem is the legacy of Lee, she's the light in a dark world.

And if they killed both Clem and Kenny, it would feel like playing a different game. Then all the characters from the earlier episodes in season 1 would be dead, and that would be really bad storytelling.

Look at Mass Effect for example. Some of the squad members in Mass Effect 1&2 are not part of your crew in Mass Effect 3. But they make cameos in missions or a dialogue option, and it ties it all togheter. So if they kill Clem, it will feel like TT don't care about my choices at all. Lee may the protagonist in the first season, but Clem is the most important person.

Clementine wouldn't have to die to not be in season 2, she could just be out there somewhere living the life lee taught her to live, or as you said about mass effect she could have a cameo, but i think telltale will do a good job i would accept any story they gave us as long as it was good

[Platinumb]

Glenn: I'd rather go and know than stay and not know. (Paraphrased)

Ambiguity at Season's 1 end is a great cliffhanger, but just leaving it with Clem's scared little face - I think that's unfair. It's not like the end of the "Sopranos" because Clem pretty much WAS able to see something was coming up over the hill. We should, too!

[Mornai]

Being among those who despise ambiguity, i would hate it if Clem wasn't in Season 2. The whole point of all the actions you have with her in season 1 is to teach her how to survive in this world, and that all goes down the drain if you never know if she ever uses anything you've ever taught her. Protecting her in season 1 would have been pointless, because teaching her anything was a waste since we never know if it helped her survive on her own.

There are plenty of situations(some may even say too many) where fates are left ambiguous that we can think over: Lilly(if you follow the Woodbury book), Molly, Kenny, Omid & Christa. All of these people can retain their unknown fates and that would be fine, but at least Clem needs to return, so we can see if everything we've done for her was worth it. Just as well, there are plenty of different scenarios for her to be involved other than just gaining another guardian.

It becomes quickly apparent that she's one of the main focus points in the game, and if the character of Clementine is thrown in the trash with the 1 minute cliffhanger at the end of season 1, then all the time we've spent with her in those first 5 episodes were a complete waste.

[Nuked]

I want to know what happened to Clem and some sort of confirmation on Lee and Kenny's fate.

[Rock114]

All I want is some concrete conslusion to Clem's story, and to know Kenny's fate. The former much more than the latter. So long as I know that Clem is safe, alone or not, I can feel like my time instructing and protecting her as Lee, as well as Lee's death after saving her, weren't for nothing. As for Kenny, he's my bro, so I'd like to know what happened to him, but I think TT ended his story (if that was indeed the end) in a very good way, and he went out in a really great scene (either one). I'd LIKE to know for sure, but not knowing that won't kill me nearly as much as if we never see Clem again.

[Zeruis]

I'm with you on the no Kenny thing. But no Clem? Absolutely not. The thing about TWD is that Rick and Lee had one thing left to live for: children. Without them, we can all become douches in season 2, right?

I'd still like to see a "Lee" figure for Clem in season 2.

[DreadMagus]

I have to wonder if we'll really see Clem again.

I mean, TTG "did" have the balls to stick with the Lee dies at the end storyline.

I feel they know how not to crap up their storyline.....

.....on the other hand, they have gotten a taste of high end success... that can cloud creative clarity at times....

[thestalkinghead]

Originally Posted by Zeruis

I'm with you on the no Kenny thing. But no Clem? Absolutely not. The thing about TWD is that Rick and Lee had one thing left to live for: children. Without them, we can all become douches in season 2, right?

I'd still like to see a "Lee" figure for Clem in season 2.

i don't think Clementine would react to a character as a "Lee" figure, it will be different, maybe if it was a woman she may see her as a role model, but I don't think there would be the same "Lee" relationship with anybody

[J_Scheff]

No. No. No. That would be like 24 without Jack Bauer. That would be like TWD tv show without Rick. That would be like The Office without Micheal Scott (We all saw how well that worked for them).

A series is called a series because it follows the events of a person or group of people.

If Clem is left out what is the purpose of Season 1?

I feel it is Clementine who makes TWD game so great. There woudlnt be half the emotional toll on the audience without her. Sure there would be some "Holy Frick" moments, and some sad moments, But nothing like they are with Clem.

When the writers can make people cry, and feel angry and depressed over a situation, They know what they are doing. And Im sure we wouldnt be hearing, witnessing, or expressing those feelings if Lee just died, alone at the end of Season 1 without Clementine or her impact on him.

So Clem is a must for season 2.

[Nuked]

Originally Posted by J_Scheff

A series is called a series because it follows the events of a person or group of people.

Final Fantasy, Far Cry, and Elder Scrolls would disagree with you.

[distortion]

Clem ought to be there. From a storytelling standpoint, in order to care about part two there needs to be elements present from part one that the audience was emotionally attached to. In this case, that's just Clementine.

[Platinumb]

Originally Posted by distortion

Clem ought to be there. From a storytelling standpoint, in order to care about part two there needs to be elements present from part one that the audience was emotionally attached to. In this case, that's just Clementine.

nay, walkie-talkie!

[Nuked]

Originally Posted by distortion

Clem ought to be there. From a storytelling standpoint, in order to care about part two there needs to be elements present from part one that the audience was emotionally attached to. In this case, that's just Clementine.

Kenny was by boy.

[Riadon]

Fuck that noise.

[AnnaSan]

I was too attached to Lee, though I accepted the fact that he's dead and gone.
Same with Clem and Kenny, I just hope Season 2 will be as great as Season 1. I just want confirmation on both of them, also Christa and Omid, I need closure .____.