The Official Ben Murder List

[Platinumb]

Following that idea, how trusting would you be of group members who had a hand in smashing your dad's head in with a salt-lick?

[Nuked]

Originally Posted by Platinumb

Following that idea, how trusting would you be of group members who had a hand in smashing your dad's head in with a salt-lick?

None, but it was the right call.

[The Fallen]

Originally Posted by Platinumb

Following that idea, how trusting would you be of group members who had a hand in smashing your dad's head in with a salt-lick?

Not very for sure, but if you compare Lilly at the end of episode 2 to the Lilly of episode 3 i think that Ben taking them behind her back probably pushed that distrust into straight up paranoia.

Though to be honest i doubt the excuse as a whole. He could and should have gone to Lee, Carley or even Kenny.

[Rommel49]

Originally Posted by Devlonir

I actually debated before that Lilly is actually to blame for Ben not coming clean on the deal with the bandits.

If Lilly had been the kind of leader that inspires trust in people, instead of the kind of person she was, than Ben would have come to her with the offer the bandits made instead of keep it to himself. Now, he felt he could not share it with her so did it all behind her back. Which caused the paranoia and, through that, the deaths of Doug/Carley, Katjaa and Duck.

Him feeling guilty for those deaths comes from his own sense of guilt, but in the same debate.. his entire guilt and the deaths coming from that (Brie and Kenny) are then also on Lilly's shoulder.

If you follow that through, than Ben was nothing but a victim of circumstances created by an untrusting Lilly who did not inspire the group of survivors to be open and honest to each other.

Not saying it's the best way to see it, just that it is very much not black and white here. Just because he feels he is to blame, doesn't mean he is.

Except originally the bandits didn't make any kind of offer; Ben himself says as much. The bandits claimed to be keeping one of his friends hostage; leaving aside that he was stupid enough to both believe them and give them supplies, his motives weren't exactly good here - he was basically screwing the group to potentially help one of his people. Ultimately, it's no different than Vernon stealing the boat.

Hell, even leaving everything else aside, by Lee and Kenny's account, they both could've died on any of the supply runs they made to Macon, and the theft of those supplies meant more time risking their asses outside of camp to replace them.

Personal responsibility. What Ben chose to do and not do is entirely his fault, nobody else's. Real-life Leadership isn't some perk or statistic where if it's high enough people just automagically fall in line. If a guy doesn't like you and/or is atleast just dead set on ignoring you and doing his own thing (as Ben clearly was), it wouldn't matter if you had all the leadership power of every great leader in history... odds are good that guy ain't gonna do what you want unless you have mind control beams.

[Demopan]

Ben didn't kill Kenny. The balcony came loose and Ben happened to be the last guy hopping across. Kenny would have done the same for any of the others.

[Jaded X Gamer]

Originally Posted by Demopan

Ben didn't kill Kenny. The balcony came loose and Ben happened to be the last guy hopping across. Kenny would have done the same for any of the others.

In fact he does exactly that with Christa if you left Ben in Crawford. I think with Ben though he was seeing the whole Shawn thing happen all over again and he felt so guilty over that for so long he just couldn't leave him behind despite how insanely hopeless it was.

[Nuked]

Originally Posted by Jaded X Gamer

In fact he does exactly that with Christa if you left Ben in Crawford. I think with Ben though he was seeing the whole Shawn thing happen all over again and he felt so guilty over that for so long he just couldn't leave him behind despite how insanely hopeless it was.

Except he actually saved Christa. The Ben thing made no sense.

[double_u]

Originally Posted by Devlonir

If Lilly had been the kind of leader that inspires trust in people, instead of the kind of person she was, than Ben would have come to her with the offer the bandits made instead of keep it to himself. Now, he felt he could not share it with her so did it all behind her back. Which caused the paranoia and, through that, the deaths of Doug/Carley, Katjaa and Duck.

Except Lilly wasn't the only one in the group. Considering Lee and Kenny saved his life, there are people who could've talked to. Had he talked to any of them, the group could have discussed it and strategize appropriately.

[Jaded X Gamer]

Originally Posted by Nuked

Except he actually saved Christa. The Ben thing made no sense.

Like I said, from Kenny's perspective seeing Ben trapped probably made him feel like he was reliving the whole Shawn thing all over again. He clearly never forgave himself for Shawn dying. In episode three he talks about Duck still has nightmares about it and if you talk him down in the train car he says letting Shawn die is the reason Duck is dying now.

So after losing his family, the boat, Lee getting bitten and Ben guilt tripping him, Kenny was probably already hanging by a thread as it was. Then he saw this.



And immediately thought about this.



And thought "I'm not running this time!" Which is a shame because he really couldn't do anything this time. (Even if they got Ben off that thing he would have quickly bleed to death.) But he probably wasn't in right mind by then and just couldn't stand the idea of leaving another kid behind.

I also think Kenny probably figured this was a way to atone for some of the things he did. He was a "Christian man" after all and beyond that he seemed to believe in karma since he thought Duck dying was him being punished for letting Shawn die.

When he was trapped in the attic, he probably reflected on some of the things he had done and likely a lot of it was still heavy in his mind when they tried to save Ben. It was still a senseless sacrifice but I understood why he did it.

[Nuked]

Originally Posted by Jaded X Gamer

I also think Kenny probably figured this was a way to atone for some of the things he did. He was a "Christian man" after all and beyond that he seemed to believe in karma since he thought Duck dying was him being punished for letting Shawn die.

Very likely. With Lee bitten, there was no one left for Kenny to live for. He probably wanted to just be reunited with his family.

[Jaded X Gamer]

Originally Posted by Nuked

Very likely. With Lee bitten, there was no one left for Kenny to live for. He probably wanted to just be reunited with his family.

If you tell him "Katjaa wouldn't want this." at the gate, he says "Yes she would. I either save the kid or I get to see her again."

EDIT: I can't seem to remember how, but I remember on my first play through triggering a piece of dialogue where Kenny said something about him and Katjaa being up late, and she was always pushing him to be a better man. I forget when he says that or how you get him to though.

[Platinumb]

Originally Posted by Nuked

Very likely. With Lee bitten, there was no one left for Kenny to live for. He probably wanted to just be reunited with his family.

Clementine, Lee's adopted daughter -_-

[Rock114]

Originally Posted by Jaded X Gamer

EDIT: I can't seem to remember how, but I remember on my first play through triggering a piece of dialogue where Kenny said something about him and Katjaa being up late, and she was always pushing him to be a better man. I forget when he says that or how you get him to though.

That's if Ben got dropped in Crawford. Right before arriving at the plank bridge across the rooftops, he says that Kat and him would lay in the RV at night, and every single night she'd give him hell for not being more considerate of others. Again, it was probably a lot of guilt over Shawn, Duck, and Kat, who he believes he got killed, so seeing another person (Ben or Christa) helpless, and about to be eaten by walkers while he just stood by, he decided to do something about it. And he ends up getting killed for it, which he probably doesn't care about very much given everything that happened on the group's tumultuous journey to Savannah.

[Jaded X Gamer]

Originally Posted by Rock114

That's if Ben got dropped in Crawford. Right before arriving at the plank bridge across the rooftops, he says that Kat and him would lay in the RV at night, and every single night she'd give him hell for not being more considerate of others. Again, it was probably a lot of guilt over Shawn, Duck, and Kat, who he believes he got killed, so seeing another person (Ben or Christa) helpless, and about to be eaten by walkers while he just stood by, he decided to do something about it. And he ends up getting killed for it, which he probably doesn't care about very much given everything that happened on the group's tumultuous journey to Savannah.

Ahh, thank you! That explains why I couldn't find it again, I almost never kill Ben. Yeah, poor Kenny probably didn't care what happened to him at that point as almost every awful thing that could have happened to him already had.