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Shadowknight1 · 02/01/2013, 05:25 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rather Dashing

They tried adapting something using the Pirates universe, and On Stranger Tides was just....awful.

I thought On Stranger Tides was decent the one time I saw it. Personally felt it was better without Orlando Bloom and Keira Knightley.

Alcoremortis · 02/01/2013, 05:34 pm

Honestly, I would have preferred it more with them in it because they were replaced with a bunch of flat cardboard cutouts with no personality. Yeah, Will might have been annoying, but hey, at least I remember who he was. The only new character from On Stranger Tides that I can remember is Blackbeard and only because I knew who he was before I watched the movie.

I also felt that in that movie in addition to having all these new characters pop up, they then had nothing to do. They didn't further the plot at all. If they hadn't been present in the story or had been replaced by different characters, the plot would have rode merrily along because the only character who really had any influence over what was happening was Jack Sparrow.

What kills me, though, is that the way the script seemed to be written, the main character should have been Barbossa. He had the most interesting character arc even though that mostly happened off screen. They didn't even show it, he just mentioned losing the Black Pearl to Blackbeard in that one brief little scene. In the theater I just sat there wishing that we had that as a movie instead. I mean, his character underwent a huge shift from the end of AWE and they totally just brushed over it and went back to Jack Sparrow doing stuff.

Shadowknight1 · 02/01/2013, 06:26 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alcoremortis

What kills me, though, is that the way the script seemed to be written, the main character should have been Barbossa. He had the most interesting character arc even though that mostly happened off screen. They didn't even show it, he just mentioned losing the Black Pearl to Blackbeard in that one brief little scene. In the theater I just sat there wishing that we had that as a movie instead. I mean, his character underwent a huge shift from the end of AWE and they totally just brushed over it and went back to Jack Sparrow doing stuff.

This I agree with, I would've loved to see the stuff with Barbossa. Would've been neat.

DAISHI · 02/01/2013, 06:28 pm

Rumor has it Disney is trying to find a way to insert a Mickey-like alien into the next movies.

Rather Dashing · 02/01/2013, 06:28 pm

"Jack Sparrow Doing Stuff" is pretty much the plot synopsis for the entire post-Pearl Pirates franchise.

Alcoremortis · 02/01/2013, 07:00 pm

At least DMC and AWE had bits of "Will doing stuff", "Elizabeth doing stuff", and "Pintel and Ragetti doing stuff" to sew it together. Maybe I have a high Sparrow tolerance, but it only really started getting to me in Stranger Tides.

royschreiber · 02/01/2013, 11:30 pm

Too much Sparrow? No such thing!
On stranger tides was the second best movie in the series right after the original. The other two movies suffered from too much Will and Elizabeth and too little Sparrow (although I liked these movies too).

Will and Elizabeth were replaced by Angelica who did a fantastic job at pulling Sparrow by the nose, getting him into trouble and contrasting him.

This was really a dream come true since by the third movie I really wished Will and Elizabeth would disappear from the franchise, it was getting too serious with them.

DAISHI · 02/01/2013, 11:44 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alcoremortis

At least DMC and AWE had bits of "Will doing stuff", "Elizabeth doing stuff", and "Pintel and Ragetti doing stuff" to sew it together. Maybe I have a high Sparrow tolerance, but it only really started getting to me in Stranger Tides.

Sparrow is not a main character, that's the problem. He's a character, but there's no reason to invest in him as a protagonist, which makes the movies have no gravity, which makes them less enjoyable. At least the characters of Will and Elizabeth add weight and consequence to the film.

Secret Fawful · 02/02/2013, 03:52 am

The Pirates series went off the rails once it started taking itself too seriously. Now you might say...but Fawful....the movies went off the rails because it didn't take Captain Jack seriously and made him a buffoon. No, it's not the same thing. The first Pirates movie was tongue in cheek continuously with every character. Jack was just the most mysterious and interesting character, but he wasn't ten million times moreso than Will or Elizabeth. That's why the friendship between Jack and Will was so strong there...because they were almost on equal footing as interesting characters. Part of the likeablity of William Turner was that he could be a bit of a buffoon at times too. Jack and Will were both buffoons at times, and just as clever at others. Elizabeth was also clever in the first movie, and her comedy came not from gags or buffoonery but from the contrast between herself and the pirates she was stuck around. The villains were completely tongue in cheek. Suddenly DMC was super-serious because sequels need to be DARK and GRIM, and that just wasn't a good fit. The ending of DMC worked so well in spite of the movie because it was one of the first times the movie allowed itself to be tongue in cheek again. Any time the movie allowed that it was better. Jack going into the mouth of the Kraken and Barbossa coming back were both insanely cheesy, tongue in cheek moments of badassery. AWE barely EVER allowed for that, and it was also poorly written. It did a good job of removing every badass element in its characters ever.

Alcoremortis · 02/02/2013, 11:26 am

I do remember that one of the biggest laughs I had in the first movie was Will with that damn wall sconce right at the beginning. Seriously, I started choking, I was laughing so hard. It's because I wasn't expecting it. They advertised the movie as hardcore action with a bit of drama and then pulled that shit out. The surprise made it glorious.

A lot of the humor in the next two movies tried too hard, the straight characters became straighter and the silly characters became sillier, but there were still always elements that I enjoyed. I liked Elizabeth and Barbossa, I liked Norrington, I liked Beckett, I liked Davy Jones... I liked the weird fish people because nobody ever uses weird fish people in movies.

And in Stranger Tides, they got rid of most of the characters I liked, failed to replace them with characters I could learn to like, refused to tell me anything about those characters, and trivialized the plot. I mean, we go from AWE, where there is a very real threat that every character that we've grown to like will end up swinging from a yardarm, to Stranger Tides, where the biggest threat is that someone else will become immortal first (or, I suppose, that minor characters with little screen time will die, but we barely even know who they are let alone feel any attachment to them). The drama was gone, the humor was gone, the characters were gone... it was a very empty movie and it made the little irritating things that I didn't mind so much in the previous movies really stand out.

Secret Fawful · 02/02/2013, 11:56 am

Poor Norrington....the most underrated Pirates character...

Chyron8472 · 02/02/2013, 12:54 pm

My favorite Pirates characters were Pintel and Ragetti, and Murtogg and Mullroy

Alcoremortis · 02/02/2013, 02:30 pm

I'm a Barbossa fan. I think he had the most interesting story that was never told. Why did he mutiny? We never know. How did he come back from the dead? Magic! How did he manage to go from being the most-feared pirate in the Caribbean to a respectable privateer? It all happens off-screen.

Though, I'll say, I really noticed the loss of Pintel and Ragetti in Stranger Tides. They were great simply in how opportunistic they were.

DAISHI · 02/02/2013, 04:09 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alcoremortis

I'm a Barbossa fan. I think he had the most interesting story that was never told. Why did he mutiny? We never know. How did he come back from the dead? Magic! How did he manage to go from being the most-feared pirate in the Caribbean to a respectable privateer? It all happens off-screen.

Though, I'll say, I really noticed the loss of Pintel and Ragetti in Stranger Tides. They were great simply in how opportunistic they were.

Completely with you. I was always a bigger Barbossa fan than Sparrow fan. He actually comes off as more of a rounded character than Jack. And I COMPLETELY AGREE that his story of facing off with Blackbeard needed to have been the real story.

GaryCXJk · 02/02/2013, 04:45 pm

Okay, after reading what Secret Fawful said, I now definitely want to see Pirates of the Caribbean: The Secret of Monkey Island happen.

With vending machine and rubber chicken pulley.

Secret Fawful · 02/03/2013, 03:46 am

I had a dream last night about Star Wars episode eight. The stakes were insanely high....higher than they ever have been on any Star Wars movie. It actually resembled Doctor Who in my dream in how well it kept you guessing if characters would live or die.

One instance had Hans Jedi son and an aged wise Chewy held down in a grid by a seasoned sniper, and the guy and Chewy ran out of ammo. Another part had Han searching for Luke's daughter at a giant space junkyard, filled with remnants of past empire ships, including parts of the second death star. He soon came to realize it was occupied by a faction of empire remnants from the old days ala Japanese remnants on islands after world war 2.

There was a big fight that involved Indian-style tactics among the corridors of junk. The space junkyard was in space and not on a planet by the way.

Han finally found Luke's daughter on a swamp world devoid of a sun or natural light.

Also Palpatine was alive.

The dream merged into one where I was telling dad about the movie, and we were eventually massacred by an insane cult.

Shadowknight1 · 02/03/2013, 06:36 am

You know...I'd pay to see it. It'd spit in the face of every author and fan who have crafted the expanded universe, but by god it'd be more entertaining than the prequels. I think the winner there is having HAN as the protagonist rather than perfect Jedi Master Skywalker.

Scnew · 02/03/2013, 07:39 am

One of my biggest issues with the Pirates movies after Black Pearl is just how ridiculous they all got.

I mean, in the first one, all your suspension of disbelief really had to put up with was cursed pirate treasure. Plus in that movie, pirates were actually pirates, in that they were bad guys.

And then suddenly the pirates are good guys, and Will and Elizabeth are pirates now (???) and there's Davy Jones, and a kraken, and a sea goddess, and returning from the dead, and a council of pirate lords (???) and somehow piracy now is actually just fighting for freedom against the evil British Navy.

Yeah. Ok.

GaryCXJk · 02/03/2013, 08:55 am

Actually, pirates are still bad in later films, our views of what is good has only been shifted.

StrongBrush1 · 02/03/2013, 01:35 pm

Weren't we originally Discussing Star Wars or Something? When did this turn into the "Pirates of the Caribbean Thread"?

02/01/2013, 05:34 pm	#442
Alcoremortis Lonely Ruffian Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Ankh-Morpork PD Status: Killjoy Extraordinaire Actual Posts: Lots! Posts: 4,227	Honestly, I would have preferred it more with them in it because they were replaced with a bunch of flat cardboard cutouts with no personality. Yeah, Will might have been annoying, but hey, at least I remember who he was. The only new character from On Stranger Tides that I can remember is Blackbeard and only because I knew who he was before I watched the movie. I also felt that in that movie in addition to having all these new characters pop up, they then had nothing to do. They didn't further the plot at all. If they hadn't been present in the story or had been replaced by different characters, the plot would have rode merrily along because the only character who really had any influence over what was happening was Jack Sparrow. What kills me, though, is that the way the script seemed to be written, the main character should have been Barbossa. He had the most interesting character arc even though that mostly happened off screen. They didn't even show it, he just mentioned losing the Black Pearl to Blackbeard in that one brief little scene. In the theater I just sat there wishing that we had that as a movie instead. I mean, his character underwent a huge shift from the end of AWE and they totally just brushed over it and went back to Jack Sparrow doing stuff. __________________ ETERNAL QUEEN OF HALLOWEEN STATUS CONFERRED. ~ Comrade Pants How can we be sure that Alcoremortis isn't just Comrade Pants trollplaying as a girl? ~ GuruGuru214 You're a shiny bright star; floating amongst a million slimy slugs in a sea of sludge. You transcend the pre-conceived and supposed limits of the human race, to emerge from the pit of pitiful maggots as a beautiful, majestic butterfly. ~ Davies The suspence of what's gonna come after death is killing me! ~ Jon NA Are you a secret Plaster Princess or something? ~ Secret Fawful

02/01/2013, 06:28 pm	#444
DAISHI TELLTALE STEALTH NINJA Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 2,998	Rumor has it Disney is trying to find a way to insert a Mickey-like alien into the next movies. __________________ "Hah! It's like we don't even have feelings. Now pardon me while I recline in my huge executive chair and guffaw, cigar in-hand. " "ill just go with what Winslow always when something that funny about a location in monkey island is said"

02/01/2013, 07:00 pm	#446
Alcoremortis Lonely Ruffian Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Ankh-Morpork PD Status: Killjoy Extraordinaire Actual Posts: Lots! Posts: 4,227	At least DMC and AWE had bits of "Will doing stuff", "Elizabeth doing stuff", and "Pintel and Ragetti doing stuff" to sew it together. Maybe I have a high Sparrow tolerance, but it only really started getting to me in Stranger Tides. __________________ ETERNAL QUEEN OF HALLOWEEN STATUS CONFERRED. ~ Comrade Pants How can we be sure that Alcoremortis isn't just Comrade Pants trollplaying as a girl? ~ GuruGuru214 You're a shiny bright star; floating amongst a million slimy slugs in a sea of sludge. You transcend the pre-conceived and supposed limits of the human race, to emerge from the pit of pitiful maggots as a beautiful, majestic butterfly. ~ Davies The suspence of what's gonna come after death is killing me! ~ Jon NA Are you a secret Plaster Princess or something? ~ Secret Fawful

02/01/2013, 11:30 pm	#447
royschreiber Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 5	On Stranger Tides was fantastic! Too much Sparrow? No such thing! On stranger tides was the second best movie in the series right after the original. The other two movies suffered from too much Will and Elizabeth and too little Sparrow (although I liked these movies too). Will and Elizabeth were replaced by Angelica who did a fantastic job at pulling Sparrow by the nose, getting him into trouble and contrasting him. This was really a dream come true since by the third movie I really wished Will and Elizabeth would disappear from the franchise, it was getting too serious with them.

02/02/2013, 03:52 am	#449
Secret Fawful Fearless Oathbreaker Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Stuck In This Pose Sexiness: Off The Charts! Posts: 5,130	The Pirates series went off the rails once it started taking itself too seriously. Now you might say...but Fawful....the movies went off the rails because it didn't take Captain Jack seriously and made him a buffoon. No, it's not the same thing. The first Pirates movie was tongue in cheek continuously with every character. Jack was just the most mysterious and interesting character, but he wasn't ten million times moreso than Will or Elizabeth. That's why the friendship between Jack and Will was so strong there...because they were almost on equal footing as interesting characters. Part of the likeablity of William Turner was that he could be a bit of a buffoon at times too. Jack and Will were both buffoons at times, and just as clever at others. Elizabeth was also clever in the first movie, and her comedy came not from gags or buffoonery but from the contrast between herself and the pirates she was stuck around. The villains were completely tongue in cheek. Suddenly DMC was super-serious because sequels need to be DARK and GRIM, and that just wasn't a good fit. The ending of DMC worked so well in spite of the movie because it was one of the first times the movie allowed itself to be tongue in cheek again. Any time the movie allowed that it was better. Jack going into the mouth of the Kraken and Barbossa coming back were both insanely cheesy, tongue in cheek moments of badassery. AWE barely EVER allowed for that, and it was also poorly written. It did a good job of removing every badass element in its characters ever. __________________ You're the greatest. The greatest! - GuruGuru214 You'll go far in this life, Fawful. - That Guy In The Wheelchair Fawful, you sir, are made of win. - mgrant I love the Fawful! - Davies You're like a bad comedian. - monkey_05_06 ** you. - Giant Tope Why do you have to be such an hole? - Avistew You're a miserable little weasel who derives pleasure from being a *. - AllenB Grow up. - Mike Haley Now Playing: ~~Space Quest 0: Replicated~~ - ~~Space Quest I EGA: The Sarien Encounter~~ - Space Quest I VGA: The Sarien Encounter** - Space Quest II EGA: Vohaul's Revenge - Space Quest II VGA: Vohaul's Revenge - Space Quest III: The Pirates of Pestulon - Space Quest IV: Roger Wilco and the Time Rippers - Space Quest V: The Next Mutation - Space Quest VI: Roger Wilco in the Spinal Frontier - Space Quest: The Lost Chapter

02/02/2013, 11:26 am	#450
Alcoremortis Lonely Ruffian Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Ankh-Morpork PD Status: Killjoy Extraordinaire Actual Posts: Lots! Posts: 4,227	I do remember that one of the biggest laughs I had in the first movie was Will with that damn wall sconce right at the beginning. Seriously, I started choking, I was laughing so hard. It's because I wasn't expecting it. They advertised the movie as hardcore action with a bit of drama and then pulled that shit out. The surprise made it glorious. A lot of the humor in the next two movies tried too hard, the straight characters became straighter and the silly characters became sillier, but there were still always elements that I enjoyed. I liked Elizabeth and Barbossa, I liked Norrington, I liked Beckett, I liked Davy Jones... I liked the weird fish people because nobody ever uses weird fish people in movies. And in Stranger Tides, they got rid of most of the characters I liked, failed to replace them with characters I could learn to like, refused to tell me anything about those characters, and trivialized the plot. I mean, we go from AWE, where there is a very real threat that every character that we've grown to like will end up swinging from a yardarm, to Stranger Tides, where the biggest threat is that someone else will become immortal first (or, I suppose, that minor characters with little screen time will die, but we barely even know who they are let alone feel any attachment to them). The drama was gone, the humor was gone, the characters were gone... it was a very empty movie and it made the little irritating things that I didn't mind so much in the previous movies really stand out. __________________ ETERNAL QUEEN OF HALLOWEEN STATUS CONFERRED. ~ Comrade Pants How can we be sure that Alcoremortis isn't just Comrade Pants trollplaying as a girl? ~ GuruGuru214 You're a shiny bright star; floating amongst a million slimy slugs in a sea of sludge. You transcend the pre-conceived and supposed limits of the human race, to emerge from the pit of pitiful maggots as a beautiful, majestic butterfly. ~ Davies The suspence of what's gonna come after death is killing me! ~ Jon NA Are you a secret Plaster Princess or something? ~ Secret Fawful

02/02/2013, 11:56 am	#451
Secret Fawful Fearless Oathbreaker Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Stuck In This Pose Sexiness: Off The Charts! Posts: 5,130	Poor Norrington....the most underrated Pirates character... __________________ You're the greatest. The greatest! - GuruGuru214 You'll go far in this life, Fawful. - That Guy In The Wheelchair Fawful, you sir, are made of win. - mgrant I love the Fawful! - Davies You're like a bad comedian. - monkey_05_06 ** you. - Giant Tope Why do you have to be such an hole? - Avistew You're a miserable little weasel who derives pleasure from being a *. - AllenB Grow up. - Mike Haley Now Playing: ~~Space Quest 0: Replicated~~ - ~~Space Quest I EGA: The Sarien Encounter~~ - Space Quest I VGA: The Sarien Encounter** - Space Quest II EGA: Vohaul's Revenge - Space Quest II VGA: Vohaul's Revenge - Space Quest III: The Pirates of Pestulon - Space Quest IV: Roger Wilco and the Time Rippers - Space Quest V: The Next Mutation - Space Quest VI: Roger Wilco in the Spinal Frontier - Space Quest: The Lost Chapter

02/02/2013, 02:30 pm	#453
Alcoremortis Lonely Ruffian Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Ankh-Morpork PD Status: Killjoy Extraordinaire Actual Posts: Lots! Posts: 4,227	I'm a Barbossa fan. I think he had the most interesting story that was never told. Why did he mutiny? We never know. How did he come back from the dead? Magic! How did he manage to go from being the most-feared pirate in the Caribbean to a respectable privateer? It all happens off-screen. Though, I'll say, I really noticed the loss of Pintel and Ragetti in Stranger Tides. They were great simply in how opportunistic they were. __________________ ETERNAL QUEEN OF HALLOWEEN STATUS CONFERRED. ~ Comrade Pants How can we be sure that Alcoremortis isn't just Comrade Pants trollplaying as a girl? ~ GuruGuru214 You're a shiny bright star; floating amongst a million slimy slugs in a sea of sludge. You transcend the pre-conceived and supposed limits of the human race, to emerge from the pit of pitiful maggots as a beautiful, majestic butterfly. ~ Davies The suspence of what's gonna come after death is killing me! ~ Jon NA Are you a secret Plaster Princess or something? ~ Secret Fawful

02/02/2013, 04:45 pm	#455
GaryCXJk Custom User Title User Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Zaandam, the Netherlands Posts: 2,112	Okay, after reading what Secret Fawful said, I now definitely want to see Pirates of the Caribbean: The Secret of Monkey Island happen. With vending machine and rubber chicken pulley. __________________ So apparently I can have a signature. Eldritch Fairytales is my novel, about a guy who falls in love with a girl. And she's from a fairy tale. Also, he has to save the world. Use ELDRITCHFAIRYTALESTTG for a free copy (valid through 2018-31-12).

02/03/2013, 03:46 am	#456
Secret Fawful Fearless Oathbreaker Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Stuck In This Pose Sexiness: Off The Charts! Posts: 5,130	I had a dream last night about Star Wars episode eight. The stakes were insanely high....higher than they ever have been on any Star Wars movie. It actually resembled Doctor Who in my dream in how well it kept you guessing if characters would live or die. One instance had Hans Jedi son and an aged wise Chewy held down in a grid by a seasoned sniper, and the guy and Chewy ran out of ammo. Another part had Han searching for Luke's daughter at a giant space junkyard, filled with remnants of past empire ships, including parts of the second death star. He soon came to realize it was occupied by a faction of empire remnants from the old days ala Japanese remnants on islands after world war 2. There was a big fight that involved Indian-style tactics among the corridors of junk. The space junkyard was in space and not on a planet by the way. Han finally found Luke's daughter on a swamp world devoid of a sun or natural light. Also Palpatine was alive. The dream merged into one where I was telling dad about the movie, and we were eventually massacred by an insane cult. __________________ You're the greatest. The greatest! - GuruGuru214 You'll go far in this life, Fawful. - That Guy In The Wheelchair Fawful, you sir, are made of win. - mgrant I love the Fawful! - Davies You're like a bad comedian. - monkey_05_06 ** you. - Giant Tope Why do you have to be such an hole? - Avistew You're a miserable little weasel who derives pleasure from being a *. - AllenB Grow up. - Mike Haley Now Playing: ~~Space Quest 0: Replicated~~ - ~~Space Quest I EGA: The Sarien Encounter~~ - Space Quest I VGA: The Sarien Encounter** - Space Quest II EGA: Vohaul's Revenge - Space Quest II VGA: Vohaul's Revenge - Space Quest III: The Pirates of Pestulon - Space Quest IV: Roger Wilco and the Time Rippers - Space Quest V: The Next Mutation - Space Quest VI: Roger Wilco in the Spinal Frontier - Space Quest: The Lost Chapter Last edited by Secret Fawful; 02/03/2013 at 05:32 am.

02/03/2013, 06:36 am	#457
Shadowknight1 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 2,686	You know...I'd pay to see it. It'd spit in the face of every author and fan who have crafted the expanded universe, but by god it'd be more entertaining than the prequels. I think the winner there is having HAN as the protagonist rather than perfect Jedi Master Skywalker. __________________ "Geez, we've been back together for five minutes Doc, and you're already talking about the end of the universe." "Stupid, stupid rat creatures!"

02/03/2013, 07:39 am	#458
Scnew Fighter of the Night Man Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 954	One of my biggest issues with the Pirates movies after Black Pearl is just how ridiculous they all got. I mean, in the first one, all your suspension of disbelief really had to put up with was cursed pirate treasure. Plus in that movie, pirates were actually pirates, in that they were bad guys. And then suddenly the pirates are good guys, and Will and Elizabeth are pirates now (???) and there's Davy Jones, and a kraken, and a sea goddess, and returning from the dead, and a council of pirate lords (???) and somehow piracy now is actually just fighting for freedom against the evil British Navy. Yeah. Ok.

02/03/2013, 08:55 am	#459
GaryCXJk Custom User Title User Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Zaandam, the Netherlands Posts: 2,112	Actually, pirates are still bad in later films, our views of what is good has only been shifted. __________________ So apparently I can have a signature. Eldritch Fairytales is my novel, about a guy who falls in love with a girl. And she's from a fairy tale. Also, he has to save the world. Use ELDRITCHFAIRYTALESTTG for a free copy (valid through 2018-31-12).

02/03/2013, 01:35 pm	#460
StrongBrush1 is best brony Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: In my own little world. Posts: 1,400	Weren't we originally Discussing Star Wars or Something? When did this turn into the "Pirates of the Caribbean Thread"? __________________ My Personal Theme Song: X-Kid; Green Day Words of Wisdom: Do what I always do: Hold tight and pretend it's a plan. You have my sword, my bow and my deviantArt page. Guess what? I got a Youtube Channel now. Click here to see me ramble on about stuff you don't care about.

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