Am I the only person who wouldn't "keep moving"? (Some spoilers)

[FollowLilly]

yeah, I was thinking it would be a good idea to go back to Crawford and just clear the place out
1. Its already fortified (probably some holes to fill, but most of the work is done)
2. They were the biggest bandit threat in the region, its likely they wiped out any other major threats in the region, so not many people to worry about.
3. Its already filled with supplies (even if the armory is empty, there should be guns lying around on dead bodies everywhere, + plenty of gas and working cars)

As for why do people keep moving, it depends on the situation, a lot of the time people have objectives, like Resident Evil, theres always some sinister time limit or someone is in danger and you have to get to them ASAP. In the living dead series, people actually hunker down as much as possible, like the original Dawn of the Dead and Day of the Dead. In Night of the Living Dead, the radio and TV announcements urges people to get to safe zones and out of their homes, thats why they wanted to move.

Generally theres 3 main reasons:
1. Finding loved ones.
2. Getting to somewhere safer.
3. Raiding supplies from town to town.

Now, in the game so far, you were at Hershel's farm with nowhere to go, so you went to Macon where your family is. You find out their fate and hunker down. Ep.2 you find a potentially safer area with more food, so you check it out. In Ep.3 your sanctuary is destroyed, so you have to leave.

In the short term, you could just find another area to settle in, but what about in 5 years when all your canned goods expire? Youre going to need to produce more food, thats why getting to an island gives you freedom to hunt, fish and plant new crops (assuming you find an island large enough). I think thats the idea with that.

In the case of where you are right now in the game, settling down in the house in Savannah is illogical, as theres no supplies there and even though its fortified, that house certainly isnt impenetrable.

[Saoralba131]

I would keep moving,I like the idea of (spoilers!) settling down in a place like The Alexandria Safe-Zone or The Hilltop Colony,but once supplies were too hard to get or something happened I would find somewhere else to settle down for a bit.

[Rock114]

I'd try to find some place like Woodbury or the motel to hole up as long as I could. Remember, the group only gets forced out by the bandits. The only reason I decided to go with Kenny's boat plan was because Savannah was where the train was going. I wanted to stay at the motel until bullets started flying. I'd only move on if the supplies ran out, I got attacked, or became a zombie and shambled mindlessly away from my safe haven.

[The Fallen]

Lets look at exactly where the deaths from the main group occur in the game.

Savannah - 4 (Chuck, Kenny, Lee, Ben)
While moving - 2 (Carley, Katjaa, Lilly leaves the group)
St.Johns farm - 2 (Mark, Larry)
Motel - 1 (Duck fatally wounded)
Drug Store- 1 (Doug)

Its pretty evident in hindsight that the 3 months or so spent at the motel was the groups peak, 3 casualties compared to 7 outside of that time. The walker threat is almost non existent during that time and thats despite the motel not being the best defended fort the worlds ever seen. Bunkering down somewhere is clearly the way to go or you'll die out pretty quickly if you have to constantly adapt to a new area.

There are two big issues to combat, namely the supplies and the living. Unfortunately one of the first things i'd do once we'd fortified our home base is plan out thoroughly exactly we're going to go and how we're going to get there when we are inevitably forced to leave. That's the problem with getting the boat and going to the city in the game, its rushed and badly planned, over the three months i'd have done a lot of scouting. Find somewhere reasonably far away, prepare for it and move there when the time comes, rinse and repeat.

People talking about years from now when the canned food and such goes off in 5 years or so, well thats a problem to think about if we're still alive in 4. Its hard to predict how well the walkers and bandits would still be surviving that far into the future.

[Sutinen]

The fall of Crawford was unrealistic.. I don't think she would survive for more than a minute if Crawford is full of armed and trained people.
I would probably find a place where you can only get to by a ladder (I know the perfect place) and is inside a larger building. Put up a sleeping place up there and you're fine. Also, the area around it needs to be big, clear of objects, and have an exit outside nearby (This place also has it)
Walkers can't get up and if you're in some trouble, you could run outside easily.

[Mornai]

Originally Posted by Sutinen

The fall of Crawford was unrealistic.. I don't think she would survive for more than a minute if Crawford is full of armed and trained people.

She probably was killed, but took down several guards as well. It's more likely Crawford did not know that you turn when dead if the brain is intact, and were taken by surprise when the corpses they piled up assaulted them from behind.


I think the idea to keep moving is better, unless you can find an area like the Alexandria Safe-Zone in the comics. Supplies are not endless, and staying in one area will deplete them eventually. It will not matter if your fort is impregnable if all the walkers have to do is starve you out. Farms could work, but not everyone knows how to farm, and i assume farming isn't so simple that anyone can just plant seeds and instantly be successful.

You would probably need at least a fairly large group to start taking back areas, and you'd also need ammunition for weapons, which is also not an unlimited supply. Survivors could switch to melee of course, but that poses a constant threat and could cost lives every time the walkers are cleared out. Everyone makes mistakes, and even the smallest may cost you your life in this scenario.

There is also the human threat, of course. If your perfect sanctuary happens to live next to a large bandit encampment, then you're going to have problems.

***Comic spoilers ahead***
Like the prison in the comics. It was well fortified, but because it was close to Woodbury, nearly all of Rick's group were killed as the prison was stormed with a tank and an army, and the survivors were forced out.
***end spoilers***

The biggest problems to staying in one place are the lack of supplies and opposing human threats. It's just safer to be on the move, at least initially.

[Jaded X Gamer]

Originally Posted by Mornai

She probably was killed, but took down several guards as well. It's more likely Crawford did not know that you turn when dead if the brain is intact, and were taken by surprise when the corpses they piled up assaulted them from behind.

I'd also like to add that an entire community of selfish assholes were probably quick to turn on each other the second something went wrong. I'm pretty sure that one woman didn't cause the entire fall of Crawford so much as probably triggered a chain reaction of similar events that led to them all killing each other.

Crawford himself was hanging by his fucking neck in the bell tower. Clearly there was some kind of insurrection or uprising that ended badly for everyone. Considering what Molly said about Crawford's "system", the people of Crawford had probably become complacent and the first sign of trouble sent them into a frenzy.

[Crixus]

I agree, the idea of always keep moving is foolish. I always argued for staying at the Motel, the best thing any group can do is find a place,fortify it, and rebuild for a better future.

[Yertos]

Yeah but the motel wasn't safe. With the bandits around they would have to either wipe them all out or leave, they can't try and make a new life there with two kids when there are bandits in the woods attacking them and taking their short amount of supplies.

[double_u]

Ideally, I would want a place to settle down in with the group. The perfect place would be remote, fortified, and offer some level of self-sufficiency. This is probably difficult to find unless the group really, really lucked out.

The biggest problem with the motor inn is that it wasn't self sufficient. Even without the bandits, the motor inn was not a long term solution. Macon was becoming increasingly dangerous to get whatever supplies is left, and episode two seems to suggest that there wasn't a lot of game to hunt in the woods either.

So the ideal place would offer at least some source of food, like animals or fish. If it has some suitable land for cultivation, even better but that takes know how and supplies. It won't be easy, but it's not impossible considering we all basically descended from hunter-gatherer societies. What makes it very hard to settle down is the walkers and other survivors that would cause problems. That's why the most remote place that could be fortified would be useful. But a lot of this requires luck and there's no guarantee things would stay the same. Like Carley said, the motor inn was safe but it could change at any moment. That's why I think stories in TWD involve a lot of moving around.

So Kenny's right in that the group would have to move on sooner or later, and Lilly probably adopted too much of a fortress mentality with the motor inn. If Kenny didn't smashed Larry's head in, maybe there could've been room for compromise. Before Lilly went nuts, she wasn't entirely an unthinking person.

[DreadMagus]

Originally Posted by Crixus

I agree, the idea of always keep moving is foolish. I always argued for staying at the Motel, the best thing any group can do is find a place,fortify it, and rebuild for a better future.

At a motel?

Let's review... it's on the edge of a large town and surrounded by woods... they have no means to support themselves except for scavenging said town (which got pretty slim come the three month mark)

If they'd had stayed at the motel - the only thing they'd have ended up building are burial plots.

[Rommel49]

Originally Posted by Crixus

I agree, the idea of always keep moving is foolish. I always argued for staying at the Motel, the best thing any group can do is find a place,fortify it, and rebuild for a better future.

Ditto, as the saying goes, there's no ideal spot in survival. The motel had two of the biggest things; water and shelter. Hell, the area did have food, it's just that the group evidently sucked at hunting and didn't even seem to bother with trapping, atleast judging by Episode 2... by the end of that episode, the St. Johns Dairy was also another potential source of food (what with the corn fields) that they could've returned to.

Scavenging isn't a long-term solution, period. The low-hanging fruit in that regard is going to be gone within the first six months to a year, if that. Nobody's making deliveries and restocking store shelves, and every still-living person is after the same stuff.

[Crixus]

Originally Posted by DreadMagus

At a motel?

Let's review... it's on the edge of a large town and surrounded by woods... they have no means to support themselves except for scavenging said town (which got pretty slim come the three month mark)

If they'd had stayed at the motel - the only thing they'd have ended up building are burial plots.

The motel was never breached by walkers, the bandits were the real threat if not for them who knows how long they would have lasted. But im not saying the motel was where they could live forever but it was the best option at the time,better then heading to the unknown in Savannah. But in the long run the group would have to find a better place,maybe somewhere like the ST Johns in the countryside.

[Mornai]

Originally Posted by Crixus

The motel was never breached by walkers, the bandits were the real threat if not for them who knows how long they would have lasted. But im not saying the motel was where they could live forever but it was the best option at the time,better then heading to the unknown in Savannah. But in the long run the group would have to find a better place,maybe somewhere like the ST Johns in the countryside.

I doubt they would have lasted very long after ep. 2 even if the bandits weren't there. They were already starving and possibly the only reason they survived was because they found the station wagon full of food. The surrounding area in the Motor Inn was picked clean, so staying there in ep.3 would most likely just result in the group being forced to live on scraps until they starve(or leave), which they were already doing in ep. 2.

I'd follow the idea of settling down in an area until all of its food supply has been exhausted, then pick up and move elsewhere. Rinse and repeat until we find someone who knows how to farm or learn it ourselves.

[Rommel49]

Originally Posted by Mornai

She probably was killed, but took down several guards as well. It's more likely Crawford did not know that you turn when dead if the brain is intact, and were taken by surprise when the corpses they piled up assaulted them from behind.

It seems very unlikely to me that the people of Crawford didn't know that people turned upon death. The undead barricade was atleast partly made up of Crawford's "burdens", Crawford was killing their own prior to its fall... I doubt they would've failed to put two and two together when the wall of bodies started moving. Likewise, Vernon's reaction to a potentially dead Omid (shouting at Christa to stay away from him) would suggest the Crawford residents should've known, particularly considering they killed the other members of Vernon's group.

I doubt they would have lasted very long after ep. 2 even if the bandits weren't there. They were already starving and possibly the only reason they survived was because they found the station wagon full of food. The surrounding area in the Motor Inn was picked clean, so staying there in ep.3 would most likely just result in the group being forced to live on scraps until they starve(or leave), which they were already doing in ep. 2.

I'd follow the idea of settling down in an area until all of its food supply has been exhausted, then pick up and move elsewhere. Rinse and repeat until we find someone who knows how to farm or learn it ourselves.

They had the St. Johns' Dairy and its corn fields as a source of food after Ep. 2. It's obviously within walking distance of the motel, and even though it had been overrun, the zombies would probably leave eventually, the fields were big enough and the zombies dumb enough that even if they did stick around, you could lead them to other parts of the property or away from it entirely while the rest of the group gathered what was needed or wanted.

[DreadMagus]

Originally Posted by Crixus

The motel was never breached by walkers, the bandits were the real threat if not for them who knows how long they would have lasted. But im not saying the motel was where they could live forever but it was the best option at the time,better then heading to the unknown in Savannah. But in the long run the group would have to find a better place,maybe somewhere like the ST Johns in the countryside.

No.

The real threat was disease, infection and lack of food/water.

Which by episode 2 they were lacking. When half an apple, some jerky and some cheese and crackers... 4 food items for a group that large.... represents one whole day's rations..... you've got one foot in the grave already.

[DreadMagus]

Originally Posted by Rommel49

They had the St. Johns' Dairy and its corn fields as a source of food after Ep. 2. It's obviously within walking distance of the motel, and even though it had been overrun, the zombies would probably leave eventually, the fields were big enough and the zombies dumb enough that even if they did stick around, you could lead them to other parts of the property or away from it entirely while the rest of the group gathered what was needed or wanted.

You mean the dairy that was overrun by a very large horde of walkers that DO NOT leave an area unless lured by something?

And which farmer, in the group, is going to maintain those fields?

Even if you have a farm, if you don't know how to run it... it's as useful as a parking lot once all the food is gone.

[Mornai]

Originally Posted by Rommel49

It seems very unlikely to me that the people of Crawford didn't know that people turned upon death. The undead barricade was atleast partly made up of Crawford's "burdens", Crawford was killing their own prior to its fall... I doubt they would've failed to put two and two together when the wall of bodies started moving. Likewise, Vernon's reaction to a potentially dead Omid (shouting at Christa to stay away from him) would suggest the Crawford residents should've known, particularly considering they killed the other members of Vernon's group.

I can recall one brief line from Molly that hints at the barricade being Crawford remnants, but i don't think it's directly stated that they kill the people. Rather, they simply force them to leave(evidenced by the Anna Correa video), and they die on their own by starvation/walkers/etc. Since they throw out anyone who is too young, too old, has an illness, is pregnant or anything that could potentially make them weak, it seems unlikely they would see death within their own community. Also, they could assume that the zombified people they previously exiled were merely bitten by other walkers, and didn't turn on their own.

I'm not sure how long Vernon and his group had been away from Crawford, but they could have learned it themselves while down in the sewers. Since walkers are already down there maybe they watched people come down there trying to hide, then die and turn. Or the people tried to force their way into the hideout and Vernon shot and killed them in the torso or other non-brain area, and witnessed them turning.

Since it took Lee's group 3 months to learn this, it doesn't seem like it would be common knowledge to everyone.

[onlyamonkey]

Originally Posted by aguyuno

Find a park and start planting things. I'm sure a nearby grocery would have some seeds of some sort if you want to clear it out, and I doubt people would take that because why would they? They're all going for small time fixes.

That really sounds a lot easier than it really is. How long does it take for crops to grow? Can you conserve them if you get a lot? How many square meters of field do you need per person? How dependent will you be on the crops? If someone loots your crops, will you die then? What will you do during the winter?

Move around and loot to survive is a good option until you have so much stockpiled you can afford to take a risk staying.

[Rommel49]

Originally Posted by DreadMagus

You mean the dairy that was overrun by a very large horde of walkers that DO NOT leave an area unless lured by something?

And which farmer, in the group, is going to maintain those fields?

Even if you have a farm, if you don't know how to run it... it's as useful as a parking lot once all the food is gone.

First, Molly tells us that Walkers will move back into an area when she lures them away with bells, so they'll move on their own. Further, walkers are dumb enough to be lured by damn near anything, they could've left the farm the instant they saw lightning on the horizon. Hell, this is why I included the possibility of needing to do it.

And considering agriculture is pretty much one of the oldest human technologies, I'm pretty sure one of them can figure it out. Even if people didn't do useful things like say, write information down in books.

We know scavenging isn't a long-term solution of any sort. Savannah had already been picked clean by the time the group got there.

Originally Posted by Mornai

I can recall one brief line from Molly that hints at the barricade being Crawford remnants, but i don't think it's directly stated that they kill the people. Rather, they simply force them to leave(evidenced by the Anna Correa video), and they die on their own by starvation/walkers/etc. Since they throw out anyone who is too young, too old, has an illness, is pregnant or anything that could potentially make them weak, it seems unlikely they would see death within their own community. Also, they could assume that the zombified people they previously exiled were merely bitten by other walkers, and didn't turn on their own.

I'm not sure how long Vernon and his group had been away from Crawford, but they could have learned it themselves while down in the sewers. Since walkers are already down there maybe they watched people come down there trying to hide, then die and turn. Or the people tried to force their way into the hideout and Vernon shot and killed them in the torso or other non-brain area, and witnessed them turning.

Since it took Lee's group 3 months to learn this, it doesn't seem like it would be common knowledge to everyone.

Vernon talks about how the Crawford residents rounded up members of his support group and killed them before he and the other survivors left. Brie even says that shooting Lee in the head would be more than anybody from Crawford ever did for them, etc. Vernon says showing up at Crawford with Omid would be the same as throwing a noose around his neck.

Lee's group is actually probably the anomaly in that they didn't know (all of the deaths their group sustained up to that point involved walkers). Ben's group knew, Vernon's group apparently knew... considering Crawford's people killed their own, I don't see how they wouldn't have known.