A Clementine Death

[TJPguy]

Okay so this thread is either going to create discussion or make me a very hated member

I brushed upon this in another thread where there were a couple of responses, however I wanted to look into it further.

Would anyone here have been interested to see at least an alternate choice-based ending where Clem dies? Either instead of Lee or along with Lee... that's not too important.
Purely for emotional reasons - I adore Clementine of course. But I've got to say I desperately wanted an ending where she had a full, story based death (as opposed to her 'game over' ones :L). I wanted to see what TellTale could do if they made the most saddening ending with a Clem death as possible.

If you're one of the people who say they would hate TellTale if they killed Clem and would refuse to play any more - is there any reason beyond just really liking Clem? It seems a very extreme response. Even more extreme than Cry's playthrough of the ending

Imagine Season 2 doesn't come into this at all, as it would naturally mess it up. I ask as if Season 1 was a stand alone project.

I'll also put this as a poll out of curiosity, for a canon Clem death, alternate one or as it is now

[CarScar]

There wouldn't be much left for the game to go with if Clementine died, assuming Lee would still perish as well (Lee's dynamic would be thrown in the trash if Clem died though...). Yeah, yeah we have season two characters but really I'd at least like some of the season one feel to still be there, and Clem is the best character to express those feelings.

I can see Clementine's death getting some heavy negative backlash from fans as well. Not only because she's so beloved, but it would also make all those choices with Clementine, to mold her if you will, pointless.

[Riadon]

I'd sooner kill you than Clementine.

[The Fallen]

I have a funny feeling i know which option's going to win the poll.

On a serious note, Clem dying would have just been awful, she's the only little bright thing left in the world by the games end. People are going to react pretty angrily to this i reckon.

Obviously i dont wan't clem to die, how could anyone, but that's not at all to say i think she should have some invincible armor in the future. Horrible things happening is what the series is all about. I cant really worry about Clem if i know for a fact they won't have the balls to kill her off. So she can only live so long and still have the same effect on me.

[aerial-ballet]

She can die.. just not until she's an old woman

[Riadon]

Originally Posted by The Fallen

I have a funny feeling i know which option's going to win the poll.

On a serious note, Clem dying would have just been awful, she's the only little bright thing left in the world by the games end. People are going to react pretty angrily to this i reckon.

Obviously i dont wan't clem to die, how could anyone, but that's not at all to say i think she should have some invincible armor in the future. Horrible things happening is what the series is all about. I cant really worry about Clem if i know for a fact they won't have the balls to kill her off. So she can only live so long and still have the same effect on me.

Killing off Clementine wouldn't be a financially sound decision for them to make.

[Shrewsbury Survivor]

When they are sure they cant make another game... thats when Clem can die

[The Fallen]

Originally Posted by Riadon

Killing off Clementine wouldn't be a financially sound decision for them to make.

They'd be a backlash for sure, and some people would be pissed and maybe even refuse to buy the next episode or series, but whether it would be the death of the series would probably depend on how good the other stories telltale have to tell are and if they can keep the majority emotional invested without her.

[BlackBoxx]

Originally Posted by The Fallen

I have a funny feeling i know which option's going to win the poll.

On a serious note, Clem dying would have just been awful, she's the only little bright thing left in the world by the games end. People are going to react pretty angrily to this i reckon.

Obviously i dont wan't clem to die, how could anyone, but that's not at all to say i think she should have some invincible armor in the future. Horrible things happening is what the series is all about. I cant really worry about Clem if i know for a fact they won't have the balls to kill her off. So she can only live so long and still have the same effect on me.

I certainly hope for good things for Clementine, but I like to stay realistic. I don't see a happy future for her at all. If the series continues to follow her, then I can say that the ultimate ending will involve her dying, whatever season that may be. Even worse, is what can happen to her in the meantime...

Let's say... a standard supply run goes horribly wrong. Clem gets bit on the leg. If she wants to live, someone has to hack it off right then and there. She may not die, but she is now irrevocably crippled. The audience is going to feel that one a lot more than Lee's death, I figure. So many players didn't care what misery they inflicted on Lee (starving, dismemberment, chaining to a radiator and left to die, etc.) so long as Clem was safe. All misfortune she suffered was in other people around her getting hurt and dying. If such things were to happen to her instead... I shudder to think of the reactions.

Be prepared, people. S*** was rough in season 1. S*** can only get rougher in season 2, or else the series will die. If season 2 is more upbeat than its predecessor, it won't have the same impact.

[darknessofheart]

Clem dying, be it in this game or the next one, would make the first season pretty insignificant in terms of what was trying to be accomplished. The main objective for the first season was caring for this little girl and giving her the tools and knowledge necessary towards living in a world full of Walkers, bandits, and pyschopaths.

Lee's death was a good plot point not only because of the emotional significance it plays in the story, but because Lee made sure Clem had a fighting chance in this world even if he passes away. If Clem just dies, it really detracts from all the great moments from the first season such as teaching her how to shoot and advising her how to best stay safe going forward because it would seem pointless is she is going to get killed.

I understand that Walking Dead attempts to include kernels of realism with its notions of death, but it is still a game at the bottom of it all; a game needs to entertain and needs to have a good end goal accomplished. If the game just has an end goal that is undone later, it makes the whole journey seem like a waste from a gameplay perspective.

The next games won't precede further than the comic book canon as of now (only two-three years from the date of the outbreak), so I hope Clem keeps living throughout these games unless Telltale is somehow allowed to jump years and years into the future; then it wouldn't be as bad if an adult Clem dies for a good cause and protect someone innocent. As of now though, I think Clem should stay alive to ensure that Lee's efforts and ultimate sacrifice and, by extension, our own choices and efforts, truly paid off in the end.

[Mark$man]

No... Clemmy clue...! Anybody that gets between me and her, is gonna end up dead!!!
Even you TGPGuy. Fear the $. Anyway Clementine is the new Morgan Freedman, you can't kill a god -_-. Bad juju. If she died who would give me evil looks and criticize me whenever I make a dick move? And Lee is gone, she is needed to preserve season 1 and Lee's essence! Everything needs a bright side, and the bright side to TWD game is Clementine. End of discusion.

[Rock114]

Optional, choice based Clem death. Of course, liking Clem so much, I'd probably want Lee to have to fail pretty hard at almost everything in the season for it to occur, but still. If it's just one of those

A) Sacrifice Clem to live

or

B) Sacrifice self to save Clem

type choices, I wouldn't want it. I'd prefer it to be based on Lee's actions all the way through the season instead of a basic A or B dialogue choice.

[Advanced]

Originally Posted by TJPguy

Purely for emotional reasons - I adore Clementine of course. But I've got to say I desperately wanted an ending where she had a full, story based death (as opposed to her 'game over' ones :L). I wanted to see what TellTale could do if they made the most saddening ending with a Clem death as possible.

A Clem death would change the way most people would look at the entire game. If people are complaining now that you're choices didn't matter... I can only imagine the backlash that would be here if everything you did to teach clem to survive was pointless because the writers said so.

If you're one of the people who say they would hate TellTale if they killed Clem and would refuse to play any more - is there any reason beyond just really liking Clem? It seems a very extreme response. Even more extreme than Cry's playthrough of the ending

I felt like Clem was my real daughter. If you think I'm sitting through a scene where Clem dies or continuing to play the game where the only reason I continued was removed, you would be dead wrong. Why would I? To continue the story of how depressing the world is? That isn't fun. Clem gave me a ray of hope in a dark dark world. She WAS the game for me, taking care of her was the game for me. You remove that and I couldn't care less about the rest of it.

Imagine Season 2 doesn't come into this at all, as it would naturally mess it up. I ask as if Season 1 was a stand alone project.

They already said to keep our save files. They will be continuing the story in one way or another.

I'll also put this as a poll out of curiosity, for a canon Clem death, alternate one or as it is now

In bold.

[Mark$man]

Originally Posted by Advanced

In bold.

Hmm sounds interesting ,and it would be cool, but... still wouldn't want Clem to die, just as Lee is still alive, handcuffed to the radiator, swinging the keys with his one hand singing to "take us back". That's what I'll be forced to if she dies.

[DreadMagus]

As long as it's part of an interesting story, I don't care one way or the other.

[zev_zev]

Originally Posted by Riadon

I'd sooner kill you than Clementine.

Ha ha same feeling dude

[gimmeseason2]

[TJPguy]

Originally Posted by CarScar

Not only because she's so beloved, but it would also make all those choices with Clementine, to mold her if you will, pointless.

That would make sense, especially for the people who perhaps look at story more than character attachment, thanks

Originally Posted by Riadon

I'd sooner kill you than Clementine.

That is a beautiful sentiment, kind internet person

Originally Posted by The Fallen

I have a funny feeling i know which option's going to win the poll.

Originally Posted by The Fallen

They'd be a backlash for sure, and some people would be pissed and maybe even refuse to buy the next episode or series, but whether it would be the death of the series would probably depend on how good the other stories telltale have to tell are and if they can keep the majority emotional invested without her.

Oh yes, I had no doubt which option on the poll would go flying ahead but I couldn't leave it off I'm interested to see that it has gone to more of a 60/40 split (surviving in favour) for Clem at least having the optional death right now though, relieved I'm not alone at least!
See now it may just be how my mind works, maybe I'm colder than most, but I literally can't get my head around why someone would refuse the next season because of it (apart from the previously mentioned 'storyline would be pointless' reason). I don't mean to insult anyone because I know that alternatively, they might not be able to get their head around me opting for a type of Clem death! I think that TT would've found a way to keep emotional investment without her somehow

Originally Posted by BlackBoxx

Be prepared, people. S*** was rough in season 1. S*** can only get rougher in season 2, or else the series will die. If season 2 is more upbeat than its predecessor, it won't have the same impact.

That is a fair point!

[TJPguy]

Originally Posted by darknessofheart

I understand that Walking Dead attempts to include kernels of realism with its notions of death, but it is still a game at the bottom of it all; a game needs to entertain and needs to have a good end goal accomplished. If the game just has an end goal that is undone later, it makes the whole journey seem like a waste from a gameplay perspective.

Thanks, I thought this paragraph probably put it in the best perspective without going into Clem attachment

Originally Posted by Mark$man

No... Clemmy clue...! Anybody that gets between me and her, is gonna end up dead!!!
Even you TGPGuy. Fear the $. Anyway Clementine is the new Morgan Freedman, you can't kill a god -_-. Bad juju. If she died who would give me evil looks and criticize me whenever I make a dick move? And Lee is gone, she is needed to preserve season 1 and Lee's essence! Everything needs a bright side, and the bright side to TWD game is Clementine. End of discusion.

Aha, fair play! I guess I am a rare gamer who doesn't want a bright side. I want to play just one game, once, which is sad but doesn't let up at all. No happy or hopeful ending, no favourite characters pulling through... but there we go~

Originally Posted by Rock114

Optional, choice based Clem death. Of course, liking Clem so much, I'd probably want Lee to have to fail pretty hard at almost everything in the season for it to occur, but still. If it's just one of those

A) Sacrifice Clem to live

or

B) Sacrifice self to save Clem

type choices, I wouldn't want it. I'd prefer it to be based on Lee's actions all the way through the season instead of a basic A or B dialogue choice.

That's a really good idea in all fairness. Having it as an entire game mess up rather than A or B would make it a lot better and more fitting in a storyline sense.
-Teach Clem how to shoot and cut her hair to survive in this world-
.... Nope. *Walk away*

Originally Posted by Advanced

In bold.

Right, here goes...
Yeah, the first bit I've agreed with.

Second bit - You cover what I mean about extreme reactions. I'm not saying this harshly I promise, just my view on it But really, if your sole attractive element of gameplay is Clem - even if it is the main objective - then the game really hangs on a thread I would think. A good game would be one that works on many levels and has a few interesting plot points rather than just one that would kill the series if it unraveled. I felt that way about the daughter thing too - heck she's even reversed my feelings on kids. But it's because of that that I wanted that kind of ending. It's hard to explain and probably hard to understand, but having an extremely close character die is what gives me emotional satisfaction in a game, and makes it REALLY stick in my mind.

Third bit - I know about the second season and save files, it's why I asked for it to be disregarded for this discussion. I know it would mean there would be no connection between the seasons then, which wouldn't be the best.

Originally Posted by DreadMagus

As long as it's part of an interesting story, I don't care one way or the other.

Pretty much my thoughts on it as well, plus the emotional side. Thanks

[Mark$man]

Originally Posted by TJPguy

Aha, fair play! I guess I am a rare gamer who doesn't want a bright side. I want to play just one game, once, which is sad but doesn't let up at all. No happy or hopeful ending, no favourite characters pulling through... but there we go~

I can't say I wouldn'd be interested, but I would never let it happen. She was basically the central focus of the first season, preparing to become either a coldhearted, non-trusting badass, or be the innocent(in a sense), trusting, hopeful character, or even somewhere in-between.

And bro, that's harsh. I can't understand the point in having nothing but bad, nothing but sadness. If that was the case they'd all have committed suicide by now lol. I like how Telltale always keeps you on your toes and makes you think ahead, and how they make you like something just to rip it from your dead hands, but there has to be a limit; a line. You say that is only fairly dark, but it sounds colddddd mate lol. It would suck if everyone died, because there would be little point in playing. I don't mean a happy ending, but not an ending that everything goes wrong. It just wouldn't feel right for TWD to just keep handing out pink slips XP. I don't care if they keep slipping the rug from under my feet, but give them a fighting chance, let some people survive. Let there be hope. It's just my opinion.