What's with everyone hating on Kenny?

[Rozzer616]

Originally Posted by BlackBoxx

Lilly was on top of the RV, there were plenty of others trying to help in a small area. She couldn't help. She would just get in the way. If somehow she was able to and did not, then yes, she would be (that or spiteful).

Doug is not a coward for being scared of zombies. Cowardice is letting fear get the better of you, not being unafraid. Did you forget that he still acts even when he's scared. It potentially costs him his life at the pharmacy. Still, he takes action to help. Not a coward.

Clem is not a coward. She's definitely afraid, but she doesn't let it paralyze her. She manages to find the walking stick to brace the door. As for Carley and Doug, what was she going to do? Pull Doug away from multiple zombies trying to yank him out a window? She can't even shake a single zombie off herself. Get Carley's bullets? She isn't tall enough to see where the purse is. She could fumble around until she finds it, then pull it down so she can find the bullets, but by then, Carley is dead. Heck, Lee barely manages to get the bullets in time when he simply reaches in and grabs them. Clem is unable to help, so she gets no blame for it.

Kenny was right there, and had nothing to stop him from helping. To just walk away is cowardly. Period. Stranger or not, Shawn was actively helping Kenny by reinforcing that fence, and got injured thanks to Duck. Kenny had a moral obligation to help the man, but he ran away.

The hate for Kenny is due to a lot of factors. The meat locker event is just the go-to in explaining why. There's a whole lot of other reasons to hate him. For the record, I don't, but I can see why others do. The attitude he gives when you dare to disagree with him on any issue is just irritating. Try to remain neutral and he says you have to pick a side. You side against him, and he takes it personally. Unless you agree with him 100%, he will use it as an excuse to be an ass to you and leave you for dead. That's a very hateable quality right there, regardless of how well you can empathize.

I wasn't actually saying they're cowardly, I was using them as examples (seeing as calling them cowardly is stupid) to show how stupid it is to call Kenny cowardly, in those circumstances.

[Rozzer616]

Originally Posted by Jaded X Gamer

Random people? That's what Lee, Clem, Carley/Doug, Kenny, Kat and Duck were to her? The people who have been taking risks, fetching supplies, putting their lives on the line for months at a time and helping to keep her safe? Just a bunch of random people? Just tools for her to use? The only reason there even was an R.V. to take is because Kenny had the common sense to fix it. If he had listened to Lilly they'd have none and everyone probably would have died during the bandit attack.

Tell me, do you think Vernon gets more hate than he deserves? Because compared to Lilly he was a god damn saint. He helps Omid, get's you into Crawford to get the things Kenny needs to fix the boat and loses one of his own people in the process. Then he steals a boat that he was partially responsible for repairing to save the people he was taking care of for months over the lives of people he's known for less than twenty-four hours.

And the reason for that being his people knew the approaching hoard would make staying in Savannah impossible, so they did a shitty thing to save their own skins when a looming threat (the hoard) presented itself. And even then, depending on who stays with the boat, it's suggested he does at least feel guilty about. Either with his note saying he was sorry or Ben telling everyone how pissed he was the group lost Clementine, probably because he wanted to take her with him.

Vernon didn't pull a gun and shoot someone in a paranoid fit of petty rage (all though Brie wanted him to do that), complain about how him murdering someone in cold blood is causing other people to treat him like shit, then steal a vehicle he spent months bitching about as a waste of time to save just himself and no one else. He didn't sit on his ass when the group needed supplies either, he went right into the fire and brought another one of his people with him.

Fuck, Ben has more courage than Lilly. Ben, like Lilly, is blamed for people's deaths, ironically including whoever Lilly murdered. Ben, unlike Lilly, isn't a goddamn sociopath. Ben feels horrid guilt over the things he's done, unlike Lilly who complains about being detained for committing murder. Ben owns up to what he does (at the WORST possible time though) and accepts the consequences, going as far as to ask Lee to let him die for what he's done.

You think Lilly gets more hate than she deserves? That's fine, that's your opinion. In my opinion she was a worthless irredeemable cunt who liked bossing people around because it meant she could keep her bony chickenshit ass parked somewhere safe while other people died for her safety. Different strokes for different folks.

But you're fucking crazy if you think she would have gone with Lee to get Clementine. She thinks Ben dealing with the bandits is the same as cutting your throat while you sleep? How would you think Lilly would react when she found out Clementine had been secretly dealing with a stranger over the radio? Fuck, I felt kinda betrayed when I found that out and I loved Clementine.

You really think queen bitch, who up and left Clem and Lee after lying about taking them along, is going to risk her life to get Clementine back? The same girl she yelled at Carley for saving back in Macon? After Clementine went behind the group's back to chase a pipe dream a weirdo over a radio was offering her? When there's a fully working escape vehicle sitting right there? I take it back, Lilly wouldn't have gone with Vernon's group if she was in that situation, she would have stolen the boat before Vernon's people ever even got there.

My biggest regret on my first play through was letting her back in the R.V. I figured she deserved a second chance because Lee got a second chance after killing someone in an emotional state and he went on to do a lot of good for a lot of people. Lilly's given a second chance and she immediately back stabs everyone the very first moment she gets, after shooting one of them in the back of the head a little earlier. All because she was afraid of what? Exile? Isn't that exactly what Lee prevented if you choose to not leave her on the side of the road?

Fuck the bitch. Now that she's an "original character" I hope she pops up in season two and we're given the opportunity to finish what we started in season one and finally putting her out of everyone's misery.

I agree with everything there :P 'cause, no matter what, Lilly is gonna betray you but Kenny has your back if you've got his. I hate her so much...I can't see how people can stick up for her after episode 3. Yeh, what Kenny does isn't really moral...but he had a valid reason for doing it.

[BlackBoxx]

Originally Posted by Rozzer616

I wasn't actually saying they're cowardly, I was using them as examples (seeing as calling them cowardly is stupid) to show how stupid it is to call Kenny cowardly, in those circumstances.

But it isn't stupid to say Kenny acted cowardly. He did. He makes up for it, and feels incredibly guilty over it, but he did respond with cowardice. He looked right at Lee and his face said he was afraid.

Even if it wasn't out of fear, Kenny still outright abandoned someone who needed his help. Kenny was the only one available able to help save Shawn, yet he didn't. It's a perfectly valid reason to hate Kenny.

[onlyamonkey]

I replayed a few episodes a few days ago and decided to just go cowboy in most of my options. Basically I told everyone they were a piece of shit, were brutally honest and always tried to pick a fight. This radically skewed how I felt about a lot of people.

In my original playthrough I acted as a I thought would benefit the group most, always trying to be diplomatic and not even trying to fight Kenny or tell Larry to go fk himself. As a result, I heavily disliked Kenny, heavily disliked Larry and was furious at Lily.

In the second playthrough, when I went cowboy, I only mildly disliked Kenny, didn't care about Larry but still was furious at Lily. It was extremely interesting how my view of these people changed because of my own behavior.

[Rozzer616]

Originally Posted by BlackBoxx

But it isn't stupid to say Kenny acted cowardly. He did. He makes up for it, and feels incredibly guilty over it, but he did respond with cowardice. He looked right at Lee and his face said he was afraid.

Even if it wasn't out of fear, Kenny still outright abandoned someone who needed his help. Kenny was the only one available able to help save Shawn, yet he didn't. It's a perfectly valid reason to hate Kenny.

In those circumstances, he wasn't a coward. You're basing it on what Lee did, which was brave. It would've been cowardly to run as soon as the zombies appeared. Seeing the trouble Shawn was in, and how close the zombies were to him, it would've been normal for Kenny to think that the guy was doomed anyway. Anyway... he could've just been trying to get Duck away from the zombies in case they got through the fence.

[AnekiGX]

Originally Posted by The Fallen

He was fundamentally a good guy, but way too fickle. After everything we'd been through together for him to turn around and go " i am a christian man, but you haven't had my back" was massively prickish when I was bitted and needed his help to save clem. I managed to convince him, but it was still a big "WTF Ken" moment.

My decisions with Kenny were

1. Tried to save Shawn
2. Defended Kenny from Hershel's accusations/ told him shawns death wasn't his fault
3. "we reason with him"
4. Fed him and Duck (along with Clem and Carley)
5. Was on the fence with him and Lilly's arguing, leaning towards Kenny
6. Helped him deal with Larry
7. Told him i was a killer
8. Thought he should be the one to shoot Duck.
9. Comforted him and showed compassion over Duck & Kat
10. Killed to boy in the attic myself
11. Dropped Ben with his consent.

So its not like i was an arsehole towards him, the majority of those are pro Kenny and most of those that aren't were in episode 1, at the end of which i got the "especially a good friend" line.

The only one i'm not sure about was killing Duck, does he like you more or less if you do it? I just thought it should be Ducks family to do it. Maybe thats where i damaged our relationship.

Oh, I can see why he said you didn't have his back.

1) You must save Duck over Shawn.
3) "We reason with him" is actually a pro-Larry stance.

I'm not sure about 8 and 10... but 1 and 3 really stands out.

[CarScar]

Kenny is a jerk.

[AnekiGX]

Originally Posted by Jaded X Gamer

Bullshit. Lilly fucking leaves you, Clem and everyone to rot when she steals the R.V. Even if you've agreed with her on everything, been nothing but nice to her, agree to come with her, she high tails it the hell out of there the second Lee steps out to retrieve Clementine. The bitch didn't give two shits about Clementine or anyone really.

Hell, if the positions were switched and you tried the family card on Lilly, she probably just list every single minor offense you ever made to her oh so lovable jackass of a father who tried to murder you. "You didn't give my father your axe that one time, just because he wanted to kill you that once!"

I've got a lot of issues with Kenny, but don't go pretending Lilly would have stepped up. She'd more likely run off with Veron's group than help you find Clementine. Just like how she stole Kenny's RV after months of bitching about what a terrible idea it was.

Actually, I see this as a juxtaposition of how Kenny felt if you chose to side with Lilly in the meat-locker scene. After she pulled the trigger, she knew her time in the group was finished even if you did not choose to ditch her in the road.

Nobody sided her on the theft issue in the RV, which added on to her stress since her only kin and supporter in the group's gone.

I don't think she'd run off with Veron's group... You should remember her reaction if you chose to leave Beatrice to the Walkers and when Kenny bragged about that.

But I think at the end of it, she felt abandoned and lonely - she couldn't trust anyone in the group any longer and so she chose to take the high road.

[zjs]

Originally Posted by The Fallen

He was fundamentally a good guy, but way too fickle. After everything we'd been through together for him to turn around and go " i am a christian man, but you haven't had my back" was massively prickish when I was bitted and needed his help to save clem. I managed to convince him, but it was still a big "WTF Ken" moment.

My decisions with Kenny were

1. Tried to save Shawn
2. Defended Kenny from Hershel's accusations/ told him shawns death wasn't his fault
3. "we reason with him"
4. Fed him and Duck (along with Clem and Carley)
5. Was on the fence with him and Lilly's arguing, leaning towards Kenny
6. Helped him deal with Larry
7. Told him i was a killer
8. Thought he should be the one to shoot Duck.
9. Comforted him and showed compassion over Duck & Kat
10. Killed to boy in the attic myself
11. Dropped Ben with his consent.

So its not like i was an arsehole towards him, the majority of those are pro Kenny and most of those that aren't were in episode 1, at the end of which i got the "especially a good friend" line.

The only one i'm not sure about was killing Duck, does he like you more or less if you do it? I just thought it should be Ducks family to do it. Maybe thats where i damaged our relationship.

I got the same reaction from Kenny, but Lilly and Carley were my two favourite characters beyond Clem and Lee, and so I'd always been pretty neutral. I said Kenny was right about moving on and always did things like console him, reasoned with him on the train and said things weren't his fault.

If you don't send one of the 'big' decisions his way, I think that's what does it. For me, this was probably trying CPR on Larry (for the record, in relation to the OP, if you get enough pushes in you see Larry open his eyes. Kenny could have hovered over him, ready to drop it, rather than just do it without reasoning).

For you, I think this was telling him to shoot Duck. I'd argue that's the worst thing for him to have to do, given that it's his son and you're aware of how his family is everything to him.

[zjs]

He has something of the role that Shane took on in the t.v. series. He's self-absorbed, and puts himself and his family before all else. He's brash, doesn't care about anyone if they're in his way and will do whatever it takes. Kenny, like Shane, becomes more like this as the series goes on. First off, he's having threatening words or a fight with someone, but this graduates to killing someone to stop him turning, telling you to leave someone to the walkers and giving you permission to let someone go; dooming them.

I really like Kenny's story arc if you save Ben. He redeems himself and finally shows courage at the right moment. You see how much he cares about his family, and thus how broken he is afterwards. The way this is portrayed is so good that it's actually better than a lot of films: seeing the starved walker who reminds him of Duck, his heartbreak when he's reminded of Katjaa's suicide etc.

As a character, he's good but unreliable. Outside of Clem and Lee, Lilly and Carley were my favourite characters. I tried to hold the group together, so I often didn't side with Kenny. It was only really after 'that scene' in episode three that I was forced to really become a lot closer to Kenny. I'd always tried to do right by him to some extent, but I'd never been in his corner on everything. He's such a pragmatist that it's hard to side with him all the time when you're trying to be the moral compass of the group, or are yet to find out Lilly/Carley's fate.

That said, he's a great character.

[Jaded X Gamer]

Originally Posted by AnekiGX

Actually, I see this as a juxtaposition of how Kenny felt if you chose to side with Lilly in the meat-locker scene. After she pulled the trigger, she knew her time in the group was finished even if you did not choose to ditch her in the road.

Nobody sided her on the theft issue in the RV, which added on to her stress since her only kin and supporter in the group's gone.

I don't think she'd run off with Veron's group... You should remember her reaction if you chose to leave Beatrice to the Walkers and when Kenny bragged about that.

But I think at the end of it, she felt abandoned and lonely - she couldn't trust anyone in the group any longer and so she chose to take the high road.

The high road? Abandoning six people to die? Most of which who put their lives on the line to keep her ass alive. Two of which were children. (She didn't know Duck was bitten.) That's bullshit. The high road would have been leaving the R.V. She wants to run away? I understand. On my first play through when she got loose and said she's leaving, I told her to go. I didn't want her in the group, she didn't want to be in the group anymore. Fine. It's broad day light, there's no walkers in the immediate area, she'd have a chance.

But then she has to go and take the R.V. too, put everyone else's lives in danger because she's a fucking coward. Hey, have you ever counted how many walkers Lilly kills onscreen? Here, I'll give you guess. It rounds up to ZERO. That's because she never puts herself at risk. It's why she didn't want to leave the drug store, why she didn't want to leave the Motor Inn despite having no way to deal with methed up rapists attacking us, it's why Ben is on watch instead of her in episode three since there's people shooting back now. And it's why she takes the R.V. She's a fucking scared little girl, just like Carley said. Just wanted to snuggle up with her daddy in her hidey hole while everyone else died to keep safe.

You really think she gave a shit about the woman in the streets in episode three? The first time you meet her she was yelling at Carley and Glenn for not letting FIVE people get eaten in the same street outside the same pharmacy. She was just picking a fight with Kenny. Had Kenny shot that girl she probably talk about she's not surprised Kenny jumped at the opportunity to shoot someone in the head. It's probably the same reason she objects to taking from the station wagon, to spite Kenny. She still does take from it though, even if Lee and Clementine refuse.

Lilly felt abandoned and lonely? Yeah, I agree, but it's her fault. Fucking months went by and she never even tried to make friends with anyone. She doesn't trust anybody because she refuses to. No matter what anyone says or does, she simply refuses to trust anyone under any circumstances (great trait for a leader to have by the way). So it's no wonder she's fucking sad and alone in the end, she brought it on herself.

Answer me this. Why does Lilly hate Carley? Why does she insist Carley's a traitor? What has Carley done to earn that? You talk to Carley before the bandit attack and she doesn't has anything against Lilly, she says she's worried about her for god's sake. There's no reason Carley and Lilly can't be friends except because of Lilly. She views Carley as the enemy, even though Carley really hasn't done anything to Lilly. The only reason I can think of is because once, way back in Macon, Carley disobeyed Lilly and saved five people's lives. People who in turn saved her father's life.

Carley didn't have any family in the group and she didn't wind up alone and abandoned, probably because she doesn't have the stunted social skills of a four year old and can make friends with people she's not related to. So does Doug and Mark. Fucking Christa gives you a speech about how she'll leave if she doesn't like what she sees, then ends up sticking around the whole time!

But if you need anymore proof that Lilly was out for no one but herself, just look at how she acts to Lee if he's supportive of her. You can agree with everything she says, take her side on everything and agree to come with her with when she takes the R.V., and she still ditches your ass the second you go to get Clementine. You could have proved yourself trustworthy to her a million times over, and she still doesn't trust you. If you agree to come with her she sounds shocked because she always assumes everybody is out to get here, and then leaves because she thinks you must be lying to her, even if you never have before.

Flip that around with Kenny and you get the opposite. If you always agree with Kenny and support every stupid thing he wants, he outright refuses to let Lee go after Clementine alone. If he's the only one he tells Christa and Omid to take the boat and if they don't make it back by nightfall to leave without them. Kenny can be selfish asshole a lot of the time and does some supremely stupid shit over the course of the story, but he's not Lilly. If you treat Kenny like shit he ditches you, only the come around later when you get back. You treat Lilly badly, she tells you she was thinking of killing you when your back was turned.

Lilly is an amoral sociopath who only sees people as tools to be used to protect herself. You can blame Larry's shitty parenting for fucking up his daughter's life, but even Larry once showed he can make friends when he charms Brenda St. John. That's one more instance of trying to get along than Lilly ever demonstrated. And Lilly's not fucking five, she's a grown woman. Larry said it himself, she can make her own friends. She chose not to, and in the end she's surprised she's alone? Fuck her.

The ironic thing is if Lilly was just ever so slightly a better person, she'd probably would have ended up with the R.V. anyways. Telltale could have changed the scene where she escapes to have Lee talk her down if they were on good terms. Once the train was working Kenny ditched the R.V. and most definitely wouldn't want Lilly on the train with them. So the natural solution would be to leave Lilly and the R.V. behind. But that's not what happened, because Telltale decided that's not the kind of person Lilly is. She's not the kind of person who ever considers other people's lives before her own.

Sorry for these long rants. It's just I've played the game from the start to finish like ten times and if I've noticed one constant, it's Lilly doesn't care about anyone but her and her father. From Episode one to episode three. It's always about her and her father. She always insists otherwise, but her actions speak louder. I think part of the reason she liked her father is he made her look better by comparison. He can act like an asshole and do unpopular shit and then she can back peddle and pretend like she disagrees when he's not around so she doesn't look like the bad guy. But it's just an act. Once Larry's gone she ends up doing even worse than what he did.

No amount of hugging is going to change that about Lilly, she's always going to be that way. How Kenny, Ben and even to an extent Christa treats Lee can change if you change. Not Lilly for the most part. Best case scenario your a useful tool, worst case scenario you're the evil serial murderer who killed her dad. Sadly, there doesn't seem to be a whole of difference between the two in Lilly's eyes.

[thestalkinghead]

well said ^ Jaded X Gamer

[Mark$man]

True that Jaded. I've played the game enough to see that pattern. Ungrateful biatch xD

[Robert Morgan]

I have to admit, after a couple of playthroughs, Lilly struck me as being her father's daughter...in more ways than one.

[thestalkinghead]

Originally Posted by Robert Morgan

I have to admit, after a couple of playthroughs, Lilly struck me as being her father's daughter...in more ways than one.

yeah, i don't think she was a completely horrible person, but she would have needed a lot of help and guidance to actually be a team player and show the potential she had as a badass group member that actually has a heart and some compassion

[AnekiGX]

Originally Posted by Jaded X Gamer

The high road? Abandoning six people to die? Most of which who put their lives on the line to keep her ass alive. Two of which were children. (She didn't know Duck was bitten.) That's bullshit. The high road would have been leaving the R.V. She wants to run away? I understand. On my first play through when she got loose and said she's leaving, I told her to go. I didn't want her in the group, she didn't want to be in the group anymore. Fine. It's broad day light, there's no walkers in the immediate area, she'd have a chance.

But then she has to go and take the R.V. too, put everyone else's lives in danger because she's a fucking coward. Hey, have you ever counted how many walkers Lilly kills onscreen? Here, I'll give you guess. It rounds up to ZERO. That's because she never puts herself at risk. It's why she didn't want to leave the drug store, why she didn't want to leave the Motor Inn despite having no way to deal with methed up rapists attacking us, it's why Ben is on watch instead of her in episode three since there's people shooting back now. And it's why she takes the R.V. She's a fucking scared little girl, just like Carley said. Just wanted to snuggle up with her daddy in her hidey hole while everyone else died to keep safe.

You really think she gave a shit about the woman in the streets in episode three? The first time you meet her she was yelling at Carley and Glenn for not letting FIVE people get eaten in the same street outside the same pharmacy. She was just picking a fight with Kenny. Had Kenny shot that girl she probably talk about she's not surprised Kenny jumped at the opportunity to shoot someone in the head. It's probably the same reason she objects to taking from the station wagon, to spite Kenny. She still does take from it though, even if Lee and Clementine refuse.

Lilly felt abandoned and lonely? Yeah, I agree, but it's her fault. Fucking months went by and she never even tried to make friends with anyone. She doesn't trust anybody because she refuses to. No matter what anyone says or does, she simply refuses to trust anyone under any circumstances (great trait for a leader to have by the way). So it's no wonder she's fucking sad and alone in the end, she brought it on herself.

Answer me this. Why does Lilly hate Carley? Why does she insist Carley's a traitor? What has Carley done to earn that? You talk to Carley before the bandit attack and she doesn't has anything against Lilly, she says she's worried about her for god's sake. There's no reason Carley and Lilly can't be friends except because of Lilly. She views Carley as the enemy, even though Carley really hasn't done anything to Lilly. The only reason I can think of is because once, way back in Macon, Carley disobeyed Lilly and saved five people's lives. People who in turn saved her father's life.

Carley didn't have any family in the group and she didn't wind up alone and abandoned, probably because she doesn't have the stunted social skills of a four year old and can make friends with people she's not related to. So does Doug and Mark. Fucking Christa gives you a speech about how she'll leave if she doesn't like what she sees, then ends up sticking around the whole time!

But if you need anymore proof that Lilly was out for no one but herself, just look at how she acts to Lee if he's supportive of her. You can agree with everything she says, take her side on everything and agree to come with her with when she takes the R.V., and she still ditches your ass the second you go to get Clementine. You could have proved yourself trustworthy to her a million times over, and she still doesn't trust you. If you agree to come with her she sounds shocked because she always assumes everybody is out to get here, and then leaves because she thinks you must be lying to her, even if you never have before.

Flip that around with Kenny and you get the opposite. If you always agree with Kenny and support every stupid thing he wants, he outright refuses to let Lee go after Clementine alone. If he's the only one he tells Christa and Omid to take the boat and if they don't make it back by nightfall to leave without them. Kenny can be selfish asshole a lot of the time and does some supremely stupid shit over the course of the story, but he's not Lilly. If you treat Kenny like shit he ditches you, only the come around later when you get back. You treat Lilly badly, she tells you she was thinking of killing you when your back was turned.

Lilly is an amoral sociopath who only sees people as tools to be used to protect herself. You can blame Larry's shitty parenting for fucking up his daughter's life, but even Larry once showed he can make friends when he charms Brenda St. John. That's one more instance of trying to get along than Lilly ever demonstrated. And Lilly's not fucking five, she's a grown woman. Larry said it himself, she can make her own friends. She chose not to, and in the end she's surprised she's alone? Fuck her.

The ironic thing is if Lilly was just ever so slightly a better person, she'd probably would have ended up with the R.V. anyways. Telltale could have changed the scene where she escapes to have Lee talk her down if they were on good terms. Once the train was working Kenny ditched the R.V. and most definitely wouldn't want Lilly on the train with them. So the natural solution would be to leave Lilly and the R.V. behind. But that's not what happened, because Telltale decided that's not the kind of person Lilly is. She's not the kind of person who ever considers other people's lives before her own.

Sorry for these long rants. It's just I've played the game from the start to finish like ten times and if I've noticed one constant, it's Lilly doesn't care about anyone but her and her father. From Episode one to episode three. It's always about her and her father. She always insists otherwise, but her actions speak louder. I think part of the reason she liked her father is he made her look better by comparison. He can act like an asshole and do unpopular shit and then she can back peddle and pretend like she disagrees when he's not around so she doesn't look like the bad guy. But it's just an act. Once Larry's gone she ends up doing even worse than what he did.

No amount of hugging is going to change that about Lilly, she's always going to be that way. How Kenny, Ben and even to an extent Christa treats Lee can change if you change. Not Lilly for the most part. Best case scenario your a useful tool, worst case scenario you're the evil serial murderer who killed her dad. Sadly, there doesn't seem to be a whole of difference between the two in Lilly's eyes.

You make a compelling argument. I've got nothing to say about it.

One thing I am unclear about is why didn't Lee tell Lilly that it was in fact Carley, who asked him to check out on the stolen supplies issue?

I always wonder if that'd at least convince Lilly of Carley's innocence!

[Jaded X Gamer]

Originally Posted by AnekiGX

You make a compelling argument. I've got nothing to say about it.

One thing I am unclear about is why didn't Lee tell Lilly that it was in fact Carley, who asked him to check out on the stolen supplies issue?

I always wonder if that'd at least convince Lilly of Carley's innocence!

Oversight on the writer's part probably. It could have easily replaced the "Carley's trustworthy" option. All though I'm convinced it would have made no difference to Lilly. She would have just said "That proves nothing!" and then probably accuse Lee of being in on it with Carley.

[Mark$man]

Originally Posted by Jaded X Gamer

Oversight on the writer's part probably. It could have easily replaced the "Carley's trust worthy" option. All though I'm convinced it would have made no difference to Lilly. She would have just said "That proves nothing!" and then probably accuse Lee of being in on it with Carley.

Yeah, she'd probably have made the point that it was just to lead suspicion off her or something. Something stupid. I also thought about that though. I wish you could have at least stopped Carley from yelling at Lilly, as much as it was deserved, she didn't have to die for it.

[Jaded X Gamer]

Originally Posted by Mark$man

Yeah, she'd probably have made the point that it was just to lead suspicion off her or something. Something stupid. I also thought about that though. I wish you could have at least stopped Carley from yelling at Lilly, as much as it was deserved, she didn't have to die for it.

I really don't think there's anything reasonable anyone could have done to stop Lilly from killing Carley (other than letting Carley die in Macon, obviously). There was no reasoning with her. Lilly had it out for Carley and she wasn't going to be convinced otherwise. Carley smarting off to her probably didn't actually have jack shit to do with it, Lilly was going to shoot her no matter what anyone said.

When you bring Doug along and Lilly accuses Ben, Ben does nothing but cower before Lilly and she still tries to shoot him. Really don't think Carley being less defensive would have swayed Lilly. When Carley is in the group, Lilly never accuses Ben, she accuses both Ben and Carley. But Carley is always guilty in Lilly's eyes. Lilly even tells Ben everything will be fine for him if he just tells her that Carley did it. She just wanted the go ahead to get rid of Carley.

I have a feeling even if Ben confessed, Lilly still would have shot Carley is she was there. Ben could say "I did it!" and Lilly would be like "I knew it! You and Carley did it!" And Ben would deny Carley had anything to do with it and Lilly would just insist he was covering up for her and demand to know what she was giving him to sell out the group and so on and so crazy.

I think the reason Lilly hated Carley was just because she was jealous that people actually seemed to like Carley. To Lilly, Carley was the popular girl everyone wanted to hang around and it pissed her off. You notice how she asserts Ben hanging around Carley must be because he was in on it. Same thing happens if Lee says Carley is trustworthy. Lilly just couldn't stand that she does all the work (and by work I mean sitting on her ass complaining a lot) and Carley gets all the attention from the boys.

[Mark$man]

lol maybe. She shot Ben because it is obvious he was guilty. Even with Carley it is obvious. She just hated Carley and wanted to get rid of two birds with one stone. It really pissed me off when she killed Carley though. I was so mad.