Holy crap. The meat locker scene...

[Robert Morgan]

I recently did another playthrough of ep. 2, and I noticed something when Larry had his final heart attack. If you choose to save Larry, click the button as fast as you can before Kenny can drop a salt licker on Larry's head.

Larry takes a breath.

[DreadMagus]

Welcome to last year.

[Robert Morgan]

Originally Posted by DreadMagus

Welcome to last year.

Hey, some of us weren't on this forum last year. Cut me some slack, jack.

[MarkDarin]

Hmmm.... was it a breath? Or was it a reanimated groan? I guess we'll never know.

[Mark$man]

I said something about that not even a week ago

[Jaded X Gamer]

Originally Posted by MarkDarin

Hmmm.... was it a breath? Or was it a reanimated groan? I guess we'll never know.

I know you guys like playing up the mystery, but seeing as Larry only breaths or "reanimates" after chest compressing the hell out of him, I'm inclined to believe it was a breath. I figured it was meant to be ironic, as only the people trying hardest to save Larry would see Larry breathing, right before his head explodes.

As long as we're talking about the meat locker scene, did anyone else feel the scene with Kenny and Ben in the alley was a reprise of the meat locker but with Kenny changing how he felt? In the meat locker Kenny doesn't want take a chance on saving someone who was probably going to die, but with Ben he wants to put his life on the line for a longshot.

The weirder thing is depending on your choices, you can potentially one-eighty as well. I tried to save Larry on my first playthrough but when I got to the alley scene I figured Ben was as good as dead as soon as I saw the metal sticking through him. And it's possible that Clem still being in some sicko's hands was weighing heavy on my mind while at the Dairy Kenny was thinking about what was happening to Duck and Kat at the hands of the St. Johns. So now I was the one who just wanted to finish someone off while Kenny refused to accept that was the only way.

I didn't realize the potential for role reversal in those scenes but now it makes me think the alley was made in part to make you feel how Kenny may have felt about Lee in the meat locker if you tried to revive Larry.

[ZeroShoot]

Originally Posted by Jaded X Gamer

The weirder thing is depending on your choices, you can potentially one-eighty as well. I tried to save Larry on my first playthrough but when I got to the alley scene I figured Ben was as good as dead as soon as I saw the metal sticking through him. And it's possible that Clem still being in some sicko's hands was weighing heavy on my mind while at the Dairy Kenny was thinking about what was happening to Duck and Kat at the hands of the St. Johns. So now I was the one who just wanted to finish someone off while Kenny refused to accept that was the only way.

I didn't realize the potential for role reversal in those scenes but now it makes me think the alley was made in part to make you feel how Kenny may have felt about Lee in the meat locker if you tried to revive Larry.

Hmmm never thought about it that way, I guess when a living person's life, one that you really really care about is on the line, you tend not to give people the benefit of the doubt, still, if the game gave me the choice whether or not to go down to Ben, I still would have went down, because even though (in my opinion) he was a bigger threat to the group than the walkers, bandits, and the damn sicko on the talkie together, he still was one of us, and I would not be able to risk leaving him down there, if not knowing for sure, that he is/was dead.
I'm only wondering if Telltale planned this, to have that potential for role reversal, or if it is a coincidence... I think they planned it.

[Cthulhu42]

I actually did not know this; I've never tried to save Larry before.

[Jaded X Gamer]

Originally Posted by Cthulhu42

I actually did not know this; I've never tried to save Larry before.

Really? Did you know his wife's wedding ring is in his left pocket when you search him?

[Mornai]

Originally Posted by Jaded X Gamer

As long as we're talking about the meat locker scene, did anyone else feel the scene with Kenny and Ben in the alley was a reprise of the meat locker but with Kenny changing how he felt? In the meat locker Kenny doesn't want take a chance on saving someone who was probably going to die, but with Ben he wants to put his life on the line for a longshot.

The weirder thing is depending on your choices, you can potentially one-eighty as well. I tried to save Larry on my first playthrough but when I got to the alley scene I figured Ben was as good as dead as soon as I saw the metal sticking through him. And it's possible that Clem still being in some sicko's hands was weighing heavy on my mind while at the Dairy Kenny was thinking about what was happening to Duck and Kat at the hands of the St. Johns. So now I was the one who just wanted to finish someone off while Kenny refused to accept that was the only way.

I didn't realize the potential for role reversal in those scenes but now it makes me think the alley was made in part to make you feel how Kenny may have felt about Lee in the meat locker if you tried to revive Larry.

Great thinking. Unfortunately there is very little room for doubt in whether or not Ben can make it out of there alive, whereas Larry had far higher chances. Even if there were no walkers, he'd probably bleed to death if we got him out.

[Cthulhu42]

Originally Posted by Jaded X Gamer

Really? Did you know his wife's wedding ring is in his left pocket when you search him?

No, I didn't. That's actually kind of sad.

[Jaded X Gamer]

Originally Posted by Mornai

Great thinking. Unfortunately there is very little room for doubt in whether or not Ben can make it out of there alive, whereas Larry had far higher chances. Even if there were no walkers, he'd probably bleed to death if we got him out.

That's what I thought the first time I played through but I realized on repeat playthroughs Larry was pretty much fucked no matter what. Back in Macon Lilly says Larry has had heart attacks bad enough that he had to be sent to hospital because he couldn't get over him and the one in the meat locker definitely seemed at least that bad.

Don't forget that in the first episode that a lesser heart attack pretty much puts him out of commission until he gets his pills, and that one didn't stop him from breathing. Assuming the St. Johns didn't take the pills and even if Larry started breathing again he wouldn't be in good health. Consider the walker attack that follows and it becomes pretty un-freaking lightly he would have made it back to the motel, and even then he might have still died.

[Mornai]

Originally Posted by Jaded X Gamer

That's what I thought the first time I played through but I realized on repeat playthroughs Larry was pretty much fucked no matter what. Back in Macon Lilly says Larry has had heart attacks bad enough that he had to be sent to hospital because he couldn't get over him and the one in the meat locker definitely seemed at least that bad.

Don't forget that in the first episode that a lesser heart attack pretty much puts him out of commission until he gets his pills, and that one didn't stop him from breathing. Assuming the St. Johns didn't take the pills and even if Larry started breathing again he wouldn't be in good health. Consider the walker attack that follows and it becomes pretty un-freaking lightly he would have made it back to the motel, and even then he might have still died.

Indeed, but compared to Ben he had at least a slim chance of survival, for however long. I highly doubt Ben would have ever survived had we successfully removed him from the pole. In Larry's case saving him wasn't very likely but it probably wasn't impossible. I don't think the same could be said for Ben.

[Jaded X Gamer]

Originally Posted by Mornai

Indeed, but compared to Ben he had at least a slim chance of survival, for however long. I highly doubt Ben would have ever survived had we successfully removed him from the pole. In Larry's case saving him wasn't very likely but it probably wasn't impossible. I don't think the same could be said for Ben.

I'm guessing in Kenny's mind at least, he thought Ben had about the same chance of survival you seem to think Larry had.

[Mark$man]

Originally Posted by Jaded X Gamer

I know you guys like playing up the mystery, but seeing as Larry only breaths or "reanimates" after chest compressing the hell out of him, I'm inclined to believe it was a breath. I figured it was meant to be ironic, as only the people trying hardest to save Larry would see Larry breathing, right before his head explodes.

As long as we're talking about the meat locker scene, did anyone else feel the scene with Kenny and Ben in the alley was a reprise of the meat locker but with Kenny changing how he felt? In the meat locker Kenny doesn't want take a chance on saving someone who was probably going to die, but with Ben he wants to put his life on the line for a longshot.

The weirder thing is depending on your choices, you can potentially one-eighty as well. I tried to save Larry on my first playthrough but when I got to the alley scene I figured Ben was as good as dead as soon as I saw the metal sticking through him. And it's possible that Clem still being in some sicko's hands was weighing heavy on my mind while at the Dairy Kenny was thinking about what was happening to Duck and Kat at the hands of the St. Johns. So now I was the one who just wanted to finish someone off while Kenny refused to accept that was the only way.

I didn't realize the potential for role reversal in those scenes but now it makes me think the alley was made in part to make you feel how Kenny may have felt about Lee in the meat locker if you tried to revive Larry.

Dude that is an AWESOME point! I already knew how Kenny felt, but wow... I never realized Telltale decided to put the bullet on us, maybe making us look bad.

I think Lee realizes the position he was in when he got back on the rooftop, his face kinda speaks "I had no idea...". It's also where he could say "He was a good guy. Some might not always agree... Maybe even me...". I guess it was a choice for certain players that didn't always see Kenny eye-to-eye, and it was an opportunity to allow them to understand Kenny's decisions.

The sacrifice for Christa could have also been seen as a 'reverse role'. You didn't want to risk your life, for you have family that needs you. Christa just potentially risked the group (as well as Kenny) before he could save his family.
The only difference is you don't gain a grudge against them xD.

Anyway, yeah, that is a very good point dude.

[Mark$man]

I think in Kenny's mind(as was mine) he was still alive when you were trying to save him. I don't 'necessarily' think they were trying to save him long-term, but save him from the fate of getting eaten alive (or even dead) by the walkers and turning. It was his biggest fear, ya know? That pole was dishing off some blood, so Ben probably didn't have long(he was shaking badly :S). But he thought that he at least had a chance to save him from SOMETHING. That after all the shit he'd gone through, he could at least get him out of that alley way. And when he couldn't, tried to put him out of his misery.

[aperose]

Yeahh this one's been discussed to death but I really do think he was dead. If you read tvtropes you've seen CPR is often shown as "clean, pretty, reliable" in all forms of media when it's really not. This wasn't like how he had a minor attack in the pharmacy, he was out. I have replayed it trying to save him though and it was obviously meant to be ambiguous. There were probably much better ways to handle the situation than Kenny did.

[Zeruis]

Originally Posted by MarkDarin

Hmmm.... was it a breath? Or was it a reanimated groan? I guess we'll never know.

Please don't do this to us!

[aerial-ballet]

Meh, even if the dude opened his eyes and spoke an entire sentence, I still would have dropped that salt lick on his head.

...

Okay, fine, I wouldn't. But still, Larry sucks.

[Mornai]

Originally Posted by Mark$man

I think in Kenny's mind(as was mine) he was still alive when you were trying to save him. I don't 'necessarily' think they were trying to save him long-term, but save him from the fate of getting eaten alive (or even dead) by the walkers and turning. It was his biggest fear, ya know? That pole was dishing off some blood, so Ben probably didn't have long(he was shaking badly :S). But he thought that he at least had a chance to save him from SOMETHING. That after all the shit he'd gone through, he could at least get him out of that alley way. And when he couldn't, tried to put him out of his misery.

Good point. If you say Ben is screwed Kenny says "We've gotta do something! He can't die down here!". So it adds up.

When Kenny looks at Larry, he sees him as already being dead, with no chance to live. When he looks at Ben(who is in a worse situation than Larry) he sees the complete opposite. I think Kenny turns his morals around beginning with his family's death. Sadly i doubt he would ever do things like this if his family lived to ep 5.