Telltale Games

Udvarnoky · 09/09/2006, 02:45 am

Saying that CMI and EMI are not true Monkey Island games is a slap to the face to two great teams. They are the true sequels because they are the ones that ACTUALLY EXIST. The game wasn't stolen from Ron; he left Lucas on his own accord and had to have known that the series could be continued. (That was his job, you know, to make viable IP for his company to make sequels to, with his involvement or not.) Ron may have envisioned MI as a trilogy and have MI3 in mind, but that doesn't mean you can assume it's better than Monkey 3 or 4 because you don't think they "fit in" with the "real" MI story. Be honest: You wouldn't question Part 3 and 4's credibility if you didn't know about the team change.

Guybrush_Threepwood · 09/09/2006, 09:00 am

Hehe, I expected such a reaction!

What I haven't explained is that I like CMI and EMI if considered as self-conclusive stories inspired by the M.I. universe (actually I played'em billions of times).
My disappointment comes out only when I see them as sequels.
I'd buy even a "Guybrush goes to space" game, to tell the truth. But I can't accept them as sequels, just as good tales superbly developed by a great team.

Quote:

You wouldn't question Part 3 and 4's credibility if you didn't know about the team change.

You can see that EMI just doesn't fit when you listen to Herman's incredible story. In fact, during the travel in MI1, you can read the diary and see that his real name was actually Herman Toothrot.

Quote:

The graphics changes were a necessary progression due to the increase in resolution, and I can easily imagine Ron making similar changes.

Graphics changes were necessary, of course!
But in CMI Guybrush looks more like Bernard then like the man we knew.
Perhaps a more George-Stobbart-like look would have been more appropriate. And I'm not a Broken Sword die hard fan.
Really, I'm not.

09/09/2006, 03:06 pm

Quote:

Graphics changes were necessary, of course!
But in CMI Guybrush looks more like Bernard then like the man we knew.
Perhaps a more George-Stobbart-like look would have been more appropriate. And I'm not a Broken Sword die hard fan.
Really, I'm not.

Perhaps, perhaps not. Many people are happy with the style it did use. But everyone's entitled to their own opinion.

Udvarnoky · 09/09/2006, 03:20 pm

They are sequels and of course you don't have to like them, but you really can't use the fact that Ron had a different idea to justify any problems you may have had with them.

The Herman Toothrot backstory has a ridiculously complicated solution but I'm not about to go into it. Besides which, a plot hole would not be a result of being oblivious to the story but simply of sloppy writing.

Who's to say Ron's MI3 wouldn't have looked just as cartoony? Weren't his comments on the look positive? Do you see what I mean? You're acting like you know what Ron Gilbert's version would have looked like. Because the CMI art style wasn't 100% what you wanted, it's easy enough to assume that the version that exists only in someone else's head would have been exactly what you wanted. CMI can only be judged on his own merits.

Guybrush_Threepwood · 09/09/2006, 04:53 pm

Well, we could speak about this forever and still keeping our opinions steady.
De gustibus, too bad for the Herman "plot hole", it totally changes the story and it's based on a mistake.
I respect everyone's opinion, anyway.

09/09/2006, 05:04 pm

I really liked CMI.

Anyone disagreeing with me are entitled to be wrong.

Guybrush_Threepwood · 09/09/2006, 05:39 pm

Quote:

I really liked CMI.

Anyone disagreeing with me are entitled to be wrong.

Yeah, whatever.

09/09/2006, 08:13 pm

:-/ Come on, it was just a joke.

It's not like these conversations are that serious.

09/09/2006, 10:51 pm

Someone brought up Grim Fandango a while back, and the scenario that has played through my head over and over has been "What was Manny like when he was alive?"

I keep imagining a Grim Fandango prequel.

I know it's something of a stretch, but whenever someone mentions adventure game sequels, it just pops in there.

Pvt._Public · 09/10/2006, 07:34 am

Honestly, I really liked CMI. Hell, I've only just finished replaying it for the 14th time! But somehow it just doesn't seem like the next game that the previous games were leading up to. It's not to say it's a bad game (In fact, it's definitely one of my favourite games ever) but it's just not really the true continuation in the series if you know what I'm saying. It sort of feels like there's something missing in the whole timeline. And yes, I'm perfectly aware we don't know how Guybrush escaped from Big Whoop but that's not it.

EMI was pretty so-so. On the other hand, it's the first game I played that actually got me interested in gaming! I still remember buying it and thinking "Hey Pirates. Cool. And it looks like the same sort of thing as The Carmen Sandiego games" and so started down the slippery path to adventure gaming geekdom.

A sequel to Loom would be cool. Unfortunately just about no-one would buy it apart from those who've played the first game. And still remember it. That's like 5000 people. Possibly less.

I think all the goodness of Manny Calavera in GF came from his shady past. Revealing what he did, although pretty interesting would sort of ruin his character I think. Maybe not. Who knows.

I remember starting a pretty big topic about abandonware back when I first joined. Basically everyone just pulled out definitions of Abandonware and told everyone else that they were wrong. I felt pretty proud of that.

Guybrush_Threepwood · 09/10/2006, 01:59 pm

Quote:

:-/ Come on, it was just a joke.

It's not like these conversations are that serious.

Ahahah, no problem

)
I just forgot to put a smiley in my last post!
Anyway, I knew this was a HOT, BOILING thread

09/11/2006, 04:04 pm

Quote:

Mr IronCladChicken, no offense or anything but there's an edit button down there for extending your posts if need be so you can easily fit three posts made one after the other into one post. Normally I wouldn't really care but someone told me to do the same thing as I'm now telling you once and I'm still snipey about it so now I go out of my way to tell people and generally be a bastard. I'm quite good at it. Being a bastard and all. Great fun.

Sorry Pvt._Public!

09/11/2006, 04:06 pm

Didn’t mean to offend!

09/11/2006, 04:06 pm

[>

]

09/11/2006, 05:27 pm

I think GRIM FANDANGO never sold a lot because CD-WRITER'S became popular around the same time it was released. I'm sad to say.

Udvarnoky · 09/11/2006, 06:15 pm

I don't think that was the case.

Haggis · 09/11/2006, 06:18 pm

How many copies did Grim sell anyway? Was it really that bad as people say?

Udvarnoky · 09/11/2006, 06:39 pm

Not according to Tim Schafer who says the game "sold pretty well" and "made money" and that he "got a royalty check from it."

Maybe the exaggerated reports of Grim's sales were based off the belief that the game didn't sell as well as hoped, or people were just looking for more ways to prove that adventure games were dead.

09/11/2006, 06:54 pm

I knew it was too good to be true.

Guybrush_Threepwood · 09/11/2006, 08:45 pm

I think graphic adventures are victims of a conspiracy. Damn Ward.

09/11/2006, 04:06 pm	#74
IronCladChicken Guest Posts: n/a	[>]

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09/09/2006, 02:45 am	#61
Udvarnoky Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Thibodaux, LA Posts: 824	Saying that CMI and EMI are not true Monkey Island games is a slap to the face to two great teams. They are the true sequels because they are the ones that ACTUALLY EXIST. The game wasn't stolen from Ron; he left Lucas on his own accord and had to have known that the series could be continued. (That was his job, you know, to make viable IP for his company to make sequels to, with his involvement or not.) Ron may have envisioned MI as a trilogy and have MI3 in mind, but that doesn't mean you can assume it's better than Monkey 3 or 4 because you don't think they "fit in" with the "real" MI story. Be honest: You wouldn't question Part 3 and 4's credibility if you didn't know about the team change.

09/09/2006, 03:20 pm	#64
Udvarnoky Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Thibodaux, LA Posts: 824	They are sequels and of course you don't have to like them, but you really can't use the fact that Ron had a different idea to justify any problems you may have had with them. The Herman Toothrot backstory has a ridiculously complicated solution but I'm not about to go into it. Besides which, a plot hole would not be a result of being oblivious to the story but simply of sloppy writing. Who's to say Ron's MI3 wouldn't have looked just as cartoony? Weren't his comments on the look positive? Do you see what I mean? You're acting like you know what Ron Gilbert's version would have looked like. Because the CMI art style wasn't 100% what you wanted, it's easy enough to assume that the version that exists only in someone else's head would have been exactly what you wanted. CMI can only be judged on his own merits.

09/09/2006, 04:53 pm	#65
Guybrush_Threepwood Spit Master Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Cagliari, ITALY Posts: 638	Well, we could speak about this forever and still keeping our opinions steady. De gustibus, too bad for the Herman "plot hole", it totally changes the story and it's based on a mistake. I respect everyone's opinion, anyway.

09/09/2006, 05:04 pm	#66
Linque Guest Posts: n/a	I really liked CMI. Anyone disagreeing with me are entitled to be wrong.

09/09/2006, 08:13 pm	#68
Linque Guest Posts: n/a	:-/ Come on, it was just a joke. It's not like these conversations are that serious.

09/09/2006, 10:51 pm	#69
CaptainDingo Guest Posts: n/a	Someone brought up Grim Fandango a while back, and the scenario that has played through my head over and over has been "What was Manny like when he was alive?" I keep imagining a Grim Fandango prequel. I know it's something of a stretch, but whenever someone mentions adventure game sequels, it just pops in there.

09/10/2006, 07:34 am	#70
Pvt._Public Evil Talking Skull Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: New Zealand Posts: 402	Honestly, I really liked CMI. Hell, I've only just finished replaying it for the 14th time! But somehow it just doesn't seem like the next game that the previous games were leading up to. It's not to say it's a bad game (In fact, it's definitely one of my favourite games ever) but it's just not really the true continuation in the series if you know what I'm saying. It sort of feels like there's something missing in the whole timeline. And yes, I'm perfectly aware we don't know how Guybrush escaped from Big Whoop but that's not it. EMI was pretty so-so. On the other hand, it's the first game I played that actually got me interested in gaming! I still remember buying it and thinking "Hey Pirates. Cool. And it looks like the same sort of thing as The Carmen Sandiego games" and so started down the slippery path to adventure gaming geekdom. A sequel to Loom would be cool. Unfortunately just about no-one would buy it apart from those who've played the first game. And still remember it. That's like 5000 people. Possibly less. I think all the goodness of Manny Calavera in GF came from his shady past. Revealing what he did, although pretty interesting would sort of ruin his character I think. Maybe not. Who knows. I remember starting a pretty big topic about abandonware back when I first joined. Basically everyone just pulled out definitions of Abandonware and told everyone else that they were wrong. I felt pretty proud of that.

09/11/2006, 05:27 pm	#75
mikdog Guest Posts: n/a	I think GRIM FANDANGO never sold a lot because CD-WRITER'S became popular around the same time it was released. I'm sad to say.

09/11/2006, 06:15 pm	#76
Udvarnoky Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Thibodaux, LA Posts: 824	I don't think that was the case.

09/11/2006, 06:18 pm	#77
Haggis Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Rotterdam, Netherlands Posts: 1,153	How many copies did Grim sell anyway? Was it really that bad as people say?

09/11/2006, 06:39 pm	#78
Udvarnoky Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Thibodaux, LA Posts: 824	Not according to Tim Schafer who says the game "sold pretty well" and "made money" and that he "got a royalty check from it." Maybe the exaggerated reports of Grim's sales were based off the belief that the game didn't sell as well as hoped, or people were just looking for more ways to prove that adventure games were dead.

09/11/2006, 06:54 pm	#79
mikdog Guest Posts: n/a	I knew it was too good to be true.

09/11/2006, 08:45 pm	#80
Guybrush_Threepwood Spit Master Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Cagliari, ITALY Posts: 638	I think graphic adventures are victims of a conspiracy. Damn Ward.