Other platforms

That is a very good suggestion actually, cappuchok.
I was thinking more in the direction of having a close-source native port (on the same CD) or a cooperation with the ScummVM team. Wasn't thinking of such a bold idea as opening the source, but that actually is a great idea. Of course TellTales would have to be (for their own interest depending on how open they are willing to go) careful of what kind of license they would choose or create.

Even a closed-source cooperation with ScummVM would result in an open-source portable engine, even though the actual original engine on which this FOSS engine would be based would not be available to the public. On one level, I can see how this solution would be prefferable when it comes to non-disclosure agreements and stuff like that (since the ScummVM team is a more clearly defined entity than the entire community).
But if TellTale wants to go full-out and opensource the original engine I'm all for it. :x Just BE CAREFUL when you select a license - or even better devise a useful license on your own, based off of one of the opensource.org Approved Licenses.

Just a hint, if you even think of making the games available for more platforms: avoid MS Windows-only libraries like DirectX.
OpenGL and OpenAL and SDL are just as powerful, and they can be used on many many platforms (including some very exotic ones).

I hearily agree. OpenGL / OpenAL / SDL is definitely the way to go if porting to other operating systems. Proprietary technology tends to never live beyond the lifespan of the product that promotes it, while these mentioned open standards will continue to live on even on the next generations of operating systems.

So. please, TellTale, don't tell us that we (Mac, Linux, ... users) don't cover enough market potential to be worth the hassle. As you see, we *are* worth it ...come on, at least 3 Linux users and 1 Mac user out of 100 ...and trying to be as helpful as we can.

I bet that whatever market potential there is for the Linux and Mac ports (and PocketPC, and Palm, and whatever) the community (proudly headed by ScummVM) will do each of us our best, in order to *make* it worth it for TellTale. If we can show them that we *really care* about their games (making ports, getting the word out to our non-adventuring friends, creating good publicity etc, in short devoting our time to promoting and helping TellTale) then we can hope that they in turn will respect us as good and loyal customers and give something back to the community all in good time. It's the way it *should* work, and just because the major players (EA, Infogrames (*puke*) and the rest) won't play nice with their loyal fans, doesn't mean an independent developer can't.

I can of course only speak for myself: I am not a programmer, so I wouldn't be able to help with porting. But I am an active user of both Windows, Linux, Mac and Amiga (yes, you better believe it!). I tend to buy multiplatform discs (such as the Starcraft PC/Mac hybrid) if available, so as to be able to run it on several of my systems. For example, I prefer to bring my Mac when needing to connect to an unfirewalled or otherwise unsecured network, and of course I like to take some games with me on the road. ScummVM thankfully lets me play all my old LucasArts classics whereever I go and whatever computer I happen to use at the time, so portability of the engine, to me, is one of the key selling points of any game, as is the ability to make a backup (to disc or image clone) for day-to-day usage without requiring the use of proprietary software. If on the road, I refuse to be forced to carry original discs with me, and much prefer just taking an image of the game and storing on harddisk, thereby only having to use the original disc once (like any good and caring collector should!).

Another piece of advice to the TellTale guys:
Whatever you do, *don't sell out to a major publisher*. Sierra recently sold out to VUGames, and this August ('04) they were suddenly shut down without prior notice or any reasonable explanation - it's safe to assume several good-to-go games were cancelled as a result of this). Microsoft Games, while basically an umbrella label for several major independent studios, does everything possible to minimize the visibility of the actual developer's name and logotypes on the boxes, robbing caring fans of the possibility to choose games by their favourite developers. Infogrames are busy destroying the good reputation of Atari as they endeavour to gobble up every independent developer left in Europe. EA is doing much the same over in the US. As a result of all this, I as a fan of specific developers no longer know quite which games to buy to support, for example, Westwood Studios, without inadvertently (sp?) supporting EA, with whose business practices I happen to disagree strongly. Therefore I now avoid games from the major publishers alltogether, and if I do want to play them (which happens only rarely), I often wait and buy them through one of the independent budget labels who care enough for the games to put out a decent prepatched budget release instead of just reprinting some old discs that still require loads of patches. (

I'd say: TellTale - take notice.

I guess I went slightly off topic there, but it had to be said.

And yes, we need TellTale to give us some answers as to their intentions when it comes to multiplatform development, porting and community devotion. :-/

Just wanted to know if TellTale is thinking of making their games for other platforms as well? Linux and Mac OS (X) for example? I can tell you a few good reasons why that would be a good idea, but first I'd just like to know if TT is even interested in something in this direction. (that, and the fact that I have to study for my next exam!)

Good idea- I'd love to see games on Linux, especially of the world's best genre...

Hmm ...don't remember MI3 being on the ScummVM compatibility list (and it isn't SCUMM-based), but ok. ]

Yes it is.

Yes it is.

Hmmm ...it really seems so, the last version (8) of SCUMM powered the Curse of Monkey Island (MI3).

My bad.

But we really should be getting back on topic!

OK. Getting back to the topic. I like the idea of games being on Linux, but what about a console port like to the Nintendo Gamecube? Especially adventure games lend themselves very much to an environment in which the entire family can participate. Since consoles have to be connected to televisions which ususally stand in the living room, there should be much more adventures on consoles.

Console adventure games don't work very well since most involve using the mouse. Try playing the NES version of Maniac Mansion. Then again, they could include a special mouse like in Mario Paint.

Console adventure games don't work very well since most involve using the mouse. Try playing the NES version of Maniac Mansion. Then again, they could include a special mouse like in Mario Paint.

That nes version sucked incredibly, it was hard and annoying to control, Dave tells you the first and (incredibly) easiest puzzel which is completly pointless and each character has their own annoying repeditive music that makes you want to rip your ears off.

Yeah....

I don't like the nes version.

Console adventure games don't work very well since most involve using the mouse. Try playing the NES version of Maniac Mansion. Then again, they could include a special mouse like in Mario Paint.

your also forgeting that most console adventure games are ports, if you play a game that is ment for console it will be much simpler to controle.

your also forgeting that most console adventure games are ports, if you play a game that is ment for console it will be much simpler to controle.

But there's also the economic aspect of porting to consider. If a point-and-click adventure was built from the ground up for a console, it would be easy to control on that specific console. However, there would need to be significant adaptations in the control system for each different console as there is no standard layout of buttons and stuff on the joypads.
Also, when porting such a game to PC or Mac, endusers would likely complain about a way too complex control system compared to the single mouse button interface of classic adventures. So there's another level of adaptation of the control system that would have to be done in order to make the game a pleasant experience. Of course, letting the fans do the porting will likely result in far better control systems for each different system because the developer of a certain port is likely to play that port him/herself many times over and wants a really good control system for him/herself and all the other owners of that particular platform. Thereby also cutting some development costs for TellTale, of course.

I myself felt that Grim Fandango and EMI were far too console-ish for the PC, as efficient and ergonomic play required a joypad (or a Natural Keyboard), and there was no alternative mouse interface that would have simplified the controls immensely and made the games more enjoyable. Of course, with Grim I could cope with the quirky control system (and pain in my wrists from long gaming sessions) because it was a great story and a compelling game, but with EMI it was just plain annoying because the game wasn't even very good to begin with (seen from the standpoint that really, Ron Gilbert should have done the entire series from beginning to end, so we'd know the real Secret of Monkey Island(TM)).

Console adventure games don't work very well since most involve using the mouse. Try playing the NES version of Maniac Mansion. Then again, they could include a special mouse like in Mario Paint.

But if you are gonna use a mouse, why not just use the computer? Leave consoles for other genres....:P

To be completely frank I am a bit discouraged by the fact that still (it's nearly a week now!) none of the developers replied to this topic. (

Then again ...this is maybe just because I've had bad experience with (some other) game companies (including LucasArts)

They're probably just busy working on their first game.

Hi hook.

Sorry for the delayed response. As THM guessed, we've been kinda busy. However, we do appreciate the questions, and are digging the forum activity!

I love linux - as a matter of fact, I have a couple linux boxes as servers. Linux rocks.

As with most companies, whether or not we create a Linux-based game will be based on the cold hard economics of the endeavor. At this point we're focused on getting the first game out and making the company financial viable - you guessed it, that means windows, and possibly console. To the chagrin of all of us Linux users, the install base isn't as big.

If we have the time and resources, we'd love to see how the Linux community takes to our products. We're not ruling it out, we just have to make sure we can feed the team, and our families first. Those folks eat A LOT! [><]

I think that, generaly, porting a PC game to a console is a bad idea. Normaly one of the versions is lacking. If you design a game for a computer (it's fine to port to other OS) and move it to a console, something is almost always lost. You can always tell when a game has been made for XBOX and has been ported to something like PS2. It's because of the systems capabilities. In some areas it is evident for OS. Like with EXE's. You can never run them on a Mac, but you find them left right and centre on a Windows. That is why it is important to make sure when porting that you have lost the mininmal amount of quality. It is similar with different languages. Watch.

I wrote this line and put it through a translation tool in Spainish

Hello all my friends, what a wonderful evening it is.

Then to Spainish

Hola todos mis amigos, una qu� tarde maravillosa es.

and back to English.

Hello all my friends, one what late wonderful is.

Thanks, Troy!

I almost gave up on you guys. I completely understand your economic needs - it's how the world works. For the moment I'm quite content that you're not ruling it out.

I hope you read the whole thread, especially cappuchok's posts - his ideas and suggestions are IMO very good and worth considering.

About porting to consoles. I'm not really sure there's a big market for adventure games there (except simple kiddie ones perhaps). I'm not trying to mob or anything. It's just that I really don't see PS or even Xbox users play a Grim Fadango-like game O_o ...it somehow just doesn't add up (plus it sounds a bit perverted ...adventures on consoles). Anyhoo, I'm sure you'll make a market research before you make such a big and tedious step.

Good luck with your current project (and hope to see it someday on my Linux box )

[Kevin]

Just out of curiosity, have any of you Linux folks had any experience or luck using DXGL?

reference: http://sourceforge.net/projects/dxglwrap/ for more info.

Kevin

Just out of curiosity, have any of you Linux folks had any experience or luck using DXGL?

Since it's still in alpha-state and the guys at v3x.net don't provide any information on what existing games might run on DXGL... I had no luck in getting anything to run on it...

Anyways, I'm no developer, but for the average gamer it's not of interest yet, it seems.

They seem to be very interested in a BeOS-port of Direct3D, which is nice (I really like BeOS), but which isn't a very 'realistic' platform for further developments.

... and the last update to DXGL was in January 2003(!).
Hmmm...

i think the appeal of the game on a console..is everyone has the same console..the problem with games on PCs is everyone has old to new pcs and some cant play new games(this is why i figure pc games just arent doin as well as they used 2) personally i have a fairly new pc and a playstation and id love to buy an adventure game on the ps2 if 1 ever came out.. surely you could just substitute the analog sticks for what you would do with the mouse..yeah it wouldnt be that exciting as far as pressing lots of buttons..but you would still have all the fun of an adventure game..plus console games are such a huge market.. as far as feeding telltale kiddies yeah i think a pc game is the first move they need to make..

Nope, sorry, no experience whatsoever with DXGL.

All I know about DX is that Egoboo developers ( http://egoboo.sf.net ) had a very very hard time changing the DirectX Egoboo 1 into OpenGL Egoboo 2. I've talked with Ben Bishop (the lead developer of Egoboo) and he said:
- that if they knew how hard it was to switch from DX to OpenGL, they'd never use DX in the first place
- you actually learn what a mess DirectX is when you try to change the code to use it with OpenGL
- that not everything can be cleanly ported from DirectX to OpenGL (and probably vice-versa). - i remember he was refering to some light effects that DirectX made easy, but in OpenGL they needed to be done with "a bit" different approoach.

I don't really understand why people are so hot on DirectX anyway?! But, well, that's just me - a linux end-user.

Just curious - is your first game going to be based on the GrimE engine?

Hello!

I'm a new user of the forum, I've been playing adventures games, since i was 5 years old. I'm a linux user. I just write to say, that I'm very happy to see all that adventure games are not death!!!!!!!!
I have to say that from my point of view, linux is a game market to be discovered. I'm developing tools to make linux easyer for users (easy but powerfull) and I can say that lot of people dislike windows and want more posibilites. But one of the problems is that there aren't enough games for linux, thats why I think that an intelligent aproximation of the Telltale game to linux (lower costs) will be a good thing.
Maybe we can discuss in the post how to make economically ok.

Sorry for my english....I'm spanish..