Mouse control in ToMI

[Dago]

This one is for the Telltale Team,

I know that you guys usually tweak the controls/graphics until the last day of production, I was wondering if is it possible for you to change the a little bit how the mouse controls behave when you want to move Guybrush around.

Right now to move you need to click and drag, and if you want to run you need to hold shift, so the only way to run using just a mouse is to double click on a object, but for example when you're moving in the noisy jungle you can't run in most instances because there are no objects to click over on some screens.
If you click on an empty space nothing happens.

Could you change it so if you click on a blank (objectless) space Guybrush moves there and if you double click he runs?
It would be like in the old games only adding the option to run if there are no objects to click on the screen.
In my opinion that change would make the mouse only option really viable for people like me that play in our living room systems.

What do you guys think about that?

[thesporkman]

You can make Guybrush run with just the mouse by right-clicking and holding or double-clicking and holding.

[Dago]

Yeah, but the holding part doesn't really work well with a living room setup where you might have a small space to drag your mouse around.
In my opinion just clicking and moving would really improve the control scheme.

[DjNDB]

Originally Posted by Dago

In my opinion just clicking and moving would really improve the control scheme.

If you mean classic Point&Click there are some Threads that explain why it's not possible in ToMI.

[Derrick]

Originally Posted by Dago

Yeah, but the holding part doesn't really work well with a living room setup where you might have a small space to drag your mouse around.

Ummmmm.... you barely have to move the mouse while dragging to make Guybrush move. Once you have dragged to the direction you want, he will keep going in that direction while you hold the mouse button down, until you move the mouse again. I played on a small mouse pad on the couch in front of the big screen TV without any problem.

Like the other user said, double-click then drag to run, or hold down shift or the right button while dragging to run.

And to all the other people in the other threads that say it is too strenuous to keep holding the mouse button down while dragging... I ask how hard are you pressing the button? And do you realize that when you say the keyboard is easier and less strenuous, that you are also holding a button down while moving?

Drag to move is not the Evil people are making it out to be. But no mouse movement at all, such as W&G, was. I just fired up S&M 101 and found myself wanting to drag Sam around, but I had to keep clicking over and over to get Sam to move across the room.

But to each their own. This has all be discussed many times. I like the new mouse control. I would not mind P&C, but I would not buy the game with no mouse control at all if it worked like W&G again. Gamepads are OK, but I do not like toggling thru onscreen items to select, and using the second analog control as simulated mouse to select items is too awkward to control.

[Duate]

somehow MI1 and 2 and 3 managed point and click controls, and they all had GREAT camera angles. i remember even being able to click in the air to move guybrush to the intended destination without clicking on landscape (remember when he was talking to the fish braggart on the wharf on phatt? you didn't even have to click on a physical object [the dock] to get him to move that way and out of the scene. you just clicked on the air, back towards the wharf.)

there is a way to include point and click control in a game like ToMI, i guarantee you

[Derrick]

Originally Posted by Duate

you didn't even have to click on a physical object [the dock] to get him to move that way and out of the scene. you just clicked on the air, back towards the wharf.)

That is because the games are 2D. The game knows you are not trying to walk on air or walk into the water. It is harder to do that in a 3D enviroment. Every scene at every angle would have to be pre worked out if you wanted to click in the air to move in 3D. This takes time away from actually working on the game.

I recommend people to play the game all the way through with the mouse drag movement. They might find they begin to like the precise control offered. Trying it for 5 minutes and not liking it is not a great evaluation. I thought dragging worked great in the jungle.

[jtoast]

I agree with the OP. I absolutely hated the mouse controls in this game. My avatar alwasys seemed to either get caught in the scenery or end up standing somewhere with the camera in exactly the wrong spot. I quickly gave up and switched to wsad/arrow keys. I actually really wish I had tried the demo before purchasing the game. Had I realized how bad the mouse control was I probably would have saved my money.

I do agree that it worked ok in the jungle. Unfortunately by that point I was already used to using wsad due to the poor camera angles in the previous environments.

[Duate]

yeah wasd worked good, and the mouse dragging was godawful

[Duate]

Originally Posted by Derrick

That is because the games are 2D. The game knows you are not trying to walk on air or walk into the water. It is harder to do that in a 3D enviroment. Every scene at every angle would have to be pre worked out if you wanted to click in the air to move in 3D. This takes time away from actually working on the game.

I recommend people to play the game all the way through with the mouse drag movement. They might find they begin to like the precise control offered. Trying it for 5 minutes and not liking it is not a great evaluation. I thought dragging worked great in the jungle.

i think they're smart enough to make a control system that isn't thinking you're trying to walk off into the air when you click at the border of a scene

[Derrick]

Originally Posted by Duate

i think they're smart enough to make a control system that isn't thinking you're trying to walk off into the air when you click at the border of a scene

If you are saying... should TTG add an pop-up arrow at the edges of the screen to allow you to click to move that way, then yes, I think that's a good idea. But the right side inventory pop-up might confict with that.

Myself, after years (and years) of playing point&click games, I found I actually liked the drag to move and have no problems with that replacing P&C. Welcome to the 3D world.

[viz]

Originally Posted by Duate

yeah wasd worked good, and the mouse dragging was godawful

I agree, the click and drag was awkward. I used the keys with no problems but I would like to see a point and click interface as it's much more efficient. Consoles dictate most game development these days and it's not easy to swallow when they have an overbearing impact on perfectly legitimate PC features.

Edit: Revolution returned to point and click with Broken Sword: The Angel of Death after users voiced their disappointment. Needless to say it worked fine.

[The Commissioner]

I had no problem with the mouse controls. I can drag characters like a pro. Maybe you all need more practice because it's easy!

It only takes a tiny drag in any direction to start Guybrush moving and then only tiny left or right movements of the mouse to turn. So you don't need a giant mouse space to use it. My mouse pad is tiny. Although actually I have a laser mouse which is pretty accurate.

I was even using the mouse control to run after someone mentioned above that it only takes a right click while Guybrush is already moving. It was so liberating!

Don't bash the control system just because you need more practice! I actually didn't need any - I was able to use it right away because it felt natural and intuitive. Maybe you are just to used to WASD or gamepads or point and click to easily adapt. I've played lots of different games over the years though with wildly different controls so maybe that's why I didn't have any problems.

Some other examples from games with different controls (a God sim, a people sim and another popular adventure game series):

Black and White - the grabbing and dragging of the ground to move was interesting. Strenuous too if you needed to move a lot.

The Sims - aside from moving the mouse to the screen edges to move, you could also hold right mouse and drag the camera around. So obviously holding down a button and dragging is not some wild new concept.

Broken Sword 4 - there was direct WASD control and also point and click, but that meant that every scene had to have the floor on display to accommodate. In Broken Sword 3 there was keyboard only control.

I say they should keep the new click-drag system. After all, just because you don't want to use it doesn't mean others won't, and also you don't need to if you don't want to because there's also keyboard - so why are you against it? If you don't like it , don't use it! I'll use it instead.

[Dan2593]

Use WASD? It works very well

[Dago]

I know that clicking and dragging isn't the end of the world, but sometimes Guybrush would act strangely and get stuck for no reason, like in front of the Club 41 and around the Doc's house.

I didn't think of the items menu popping out when you click to the right, but it could be solved by summoning the menu by clicking on the mouse wheel.

I'm just saying that point and click feels more natural and would make my life easier, the actual scheme is not a deal breaker but I would really appreciate to have a few options for different playstyles : )

[PariahKing]

Click and drag is great. Actually after playing click and drag in TMI, for 2 weeks in regular point and click games I really missed the feature.

[stoney1981]

I'd prefer Point and Click. Why shouldnt he bash the control system? It shouldnt be necessary to "have practice" to play an adventure game, you know?

[PariahKing]

Originally Posted by stoney1981

I'd prefer Point and Click. Why shouldnt he bash the control system? It shouldnt be necessary to "have practice" to play an adventure game, you know?

It shouldn't be necessary to have practice to operate cars. Guess I won't drive one.

...or maybe I will because the minimal practice I have to put in is worth the reward.

[stoney1981]

Haha, what kind of stupid argument is this? Did cars drive by themselves in the past? You might be too young to know, but back in the early days, the so called golden era of computer games, we controlled our adventure games entirely with the mouse. Having to put up with keyboard and mouse is clearly more tricky. A adventure game should challenge your brain, not have you putting up a fight against the controls.

[PariahKing]

Originally Posted by stoney1981

Haha, what kind of stupid argument is this? Did cars drive by themselves in the past? You might be too young to know, but back in the early days, the so called golden era of computer games, we controlled our adventure games entirely with the mouse. Having to put up with keyboard and mouse is clearly more tricky. A adventure game should challenge your brain, not have you putting up a fight against the controls.

Actually the earliest memory I have is of the graveyard in Monkey Island 2. Thanks for the ad hominem though. My point is that practicing to use something does not devalue it. It'll take you a good ten to fifteen minutes to get use to click and drag. Is that really too much to ask in comparison to the cinematic and ease of design for the developers of an episodic game? They could waste more time on point and click instead of content. I don't know about you but I play for a story, plot and puzzle - not to point and click a lot.

I wouldn't call using a keyboard and a mouse tricky because you seem to be able to use them to operate this website. I would call it "using more than one thing at once" which is something we do all the time. It's not as simple but any added complexity is not inherently evil. The controls are in no way complex or configured in an awful way. It's just not as exceptionally basic. They're certainly not something you fight against.