Telltale Games

TofuHead · 07/08/2009, 09:42 pm

For your safety/sanity, I have spoilered the parts that would be considered rants.

I understand it left out was due to tech difficulties, but I really would have liked point and click movement.

I got stuck very early on since there were no real clues as to where certain puzzles were--not to mention seemingly useless items being the solutions to a problem. For me, I had no idea the anchor would trigger a coal fire. I saw the oil and thought "fire!", and I searched the whole fricking island and there was no fire. The clothesline did not catch my attention at all until hours later and the clue as to where the card was did not lead me to the socks at all!

Hints should be directly in the dialogue or associated with certain items, and not placed in random places in unrelated things. The glass blower's glass breaking horn should have been used specifically only on items labeled as "glass", or "unbreakable glass". This was a problem when you encounter the "crystal nose". How hard would it have been to make it an "unbreakable glass nose", or if you want to be more subtle, at least make all the glass items the same color. Or at LEAST make Guybrush try to break it and say, "Guess that's not gonna work". Indirect hints are better than NONE AT ALL.

I understand that some puzzles take time to solve but when you solve it, you're supposed to go, "OHHH, it's so obvious now!", not, "...what?? Are you kidding???"

ex 1. On Guybrush's boat with the monkey coffin. Use monkey coffin with special monkey? Logical... "use" monkey coffin to open and find flat root beer? Not so much.

ex 2. Use breath mints on grog. Uhhh, why is it flat again? Using repetition with puzzles is never good. There's no point since the first puzzle was solved this way to begin with.

ex 3. Use chain to get onto ship so that the captain will throw hot coals on you. What?? Just having to use that as a puzzle title is terrible to begin with! Who even does that in the first place? Oh, a person is trying to get on board my ship to take command! I guess I'll DROP HOT COALS ON HIM.

ex 4. Find club membership card in random socks. This is not a good solution to a puzzle, especially when the hint was "I lost it when I first became captain of the Narwhal." It makes absolutely no sense. In 2 years, not once has the captain worn socks. Not once has he reeled in his laundry? Not once has he put on those pink pantalons? Also, putting two solutions into the same place is never a good idea. Each object should have a sole purpose. It's fine if you can use the item in more than one place, but never put two solutions to two separate problems in the same place, especially when it's not in the same object. This could easily mislead people to thinking they're done. They could have easily put the sock in a random place for us to find. They could even have included a hint like, "I lost it way back when I first became captain of the Narwhal. I'd wager it's because I lost my lucky sock. It's always one sock you know? They just disappear!"

ex 5. The tar puzzle. Seriously? Okay, man the wheel. Have posessed hand smack it and then turn the ship wildly. Pretty funny. Use cannon to break barrel? Logical. Look at map to get into fight with hand in order to get stuck in the tar?? What?? Why dont I just stick my hand in the tar to begin with? This just doesn't make any sense.

ex 6. The map puzzle. There is no clear demarcation of the order of steps. This made the puzzle harder than it needed to be. Also, it was not obvious that you should use the map with the wishing well. Just putting a picture of a hand gripping a map next to the well could easily mean "START FROM HERE", not PUT THE MAP OVER THE WELL TO START THE PUZZLE FOR NO EXPLAINED REASON.

ex 7: The 2nd map puzzle. Are you serious? ANOTHER one? Wasnt the first one bad enough? There wasn't even anything funny that happens along the way. This seemed tedious and entirely pointless. Was there even a point?? Isn't this game supposed to be fun??? And use the wind? I mean, considering how the first puzzle worked, it would make sense to follow the SOUND of the wind on the paths. Not pull out your weather vane to see where it's blowing. Why not just put a picture of the weather vane? I know alot of people had trouble with this one.

ex 8: The marquis totem. Okay, I thought this was pretty funny, until I realized you couldn't stuff the vane into his ###. So I pulled out the weather vane to see if I could see the face. There was one last face, and since it had not been used yet, it should have been that one by process of elimination, right? Unfortunately, Guybrush hardly holds the damned thing out for more than 2 seconds so I ended up pulling it out two more times to figure out which eyes, nose and mouth to use for the final god. It worked. I had NO idea that the actual solution was to use the Marquis' vocal ows, ees and moans of pleasure (???) to figure how it went. I DID like that they made you use a wheel of cheese on the imprint of the jail cell inscriptions, showing that someone broke it deliberately to decorate the windows. Using the theme of the island as a solution to a puzzle was at least some sort of brilliance.

ex 9. The tar puzzle. Seriously? Okay, man the wheel. Have posessed hand smack it and then turn the ship wildly. Pretty funny. Use cannon to break barrel? Logical. Look at map to get into fight with hand in order to get stuck in the tar?? What?? Why dont I just stick my hand in the tar to begin with? This just doesn't make any sense.

Bad jokes/continuity problems:

Character continuity: Guybrush's extreme porcelain phobia. At first mention, Guybrush didn't react whatsoever. He only does so when he picks up the doll, while he wouldn't even have touched in past games. Yeah, he vocalizes his discontent, yet he touches it anyways. Could have easily have been a plastic doll.

Character continuity: Elaine's love-hate for Guybrush. Elaine was always a tomboy: she was a female pirate who was the governor of a tri island area for pirates. She fought off advances of typical pirate men (Fester Shinetop), and she never needed saving, as she has proven to Guybrush time and time again... except in the 3rd when she ended up turned to gold--but that was Guybrush's fault to begin with. The whole point to her character is that she never really needs saving, and that's all she did this time around, aside from being lovey-dovey.

Continuity: Guybrush's mention about the "mother in law visit": ELAINE'S MOTHER DOES NOT PLAY AN ACTIVE ROLE IN HER LIFE. Aside from Herman Toothrot, she has not had any family play an active role in her life, and that was not necessarily canon, at least in many fans eyes.
Hispanic pirate with fruity accent that plays with dolls. Enough said.
D'oro the explorer. It didn't even rhyme. And seriously? D'oro the explorer? Seriously??

Bad joke: U-tube. It should have been either really obvious, or not there at all. There seemed to be a vague reference to it, but there werent really any jokes relating the glass U to youtube. At least ones that were evident or funny IMO.

Bad joke: God of breaking wind. :\ Toilet humor? Really?

General: Marquis de Singe. The perfume kiosk merchant in EFMI was a pretty funny character. He was french, snooty and wore a powdered wig/white makeup. Basically, the Marquis is a rehash of this character, only much more effeminate, cheesy and demented. Not that I hated his character, but it seemed in poor taste to do something that's already been done. Unfortunately the guy providing the voice for him didn't seem to have a good grasp on a French accent. It was extremely inconsistent, which grated on my nerves.

Overdone jokes:
Forgettable Driftwood... I mean Seepgood. I mean Mancomb! Wait, what? They way overdid this one. Geepwood, sheepwood, dogwood, manhood! It's just not funny after the 9000th time!

Wait... that's not what I chose! Why is he saying something else! My god. It was hilarious in the first game. But that was only one set of lines, with one person, and it was because Guybrush was momentarily stupefied by the stunning beauty that is Elaine Marley.

Lack of memorable characters:
This is a big one! I can't even remember any of the minor characters names, aside from the Marquis de Singe, and that was only because Dominic Armato was the only one to mispronounce the name. Their quirks were not at all amusing either. A glassblower that... well, he was just a glassblower. Then there was the legless drunk that was... uh. Well he... had a magical spyglass... for some... reason?

This is a work in progress... Please don't complain in this thread. Disagreeing with some points is fine, but you saw the title and you knew what was coming.

edit: It seems people are mistaking my criticism with my extreme difficulties with the game. I played through the game fine. I didn't cry and sob over how I had to spend 10 seconds to realize that I had to use the vane to figure out the wind direction on the 2nd map puzzle or anything. I'm just making a point.

Kaldire · 07/08/2009, 09:47 pm

you got spunk kid.. pirate spunk...
ewww..

lol

thesporkman · 07/08/2009, 09:54 pm

Quote:

Hispanic pirate with fruity accent that plays with dolls. Enough said.
D'oro the explorer. It didn't even rhyme. And seriously? D'oro the explorer? Seriously??

Dora the Explorer is a popular American cartoon featuring a Hispanic little girl.

TofuHead · 07/08/2009, 10:00 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by thesporkman

Dora the Explorer is a popular American cartoon featuring a Hispanic little girl.

Er... yeah, and?

smashing · 07/08/2009, 10:02 pm

I have to agree that a second map puzzle in one game is a little too much. The difficulty of the second map did increase, but it is really just like cooking off a recipe books with all the ingredients in place. Wished they could have at least make a puzzle out of the calender, instead of just moving in circles.

In fact, I think this make two map puzzles in Tales successfully made the swamp puzzle from Escape of Monkey Island somewhat more 'fun' in comparison.

hamzie · 07/08/2009, 10:03 pm

Tofuhead you have a shit sense of humour.. and you are struggling through probably the easiest episode of the series

Just stop playing now

thesporkman · 07/08/2009, 10:03 pm

Sorry, I just thought maybe you didn't get the joke when you were complaining that it didn't rhyme. I agree that that was a pretty lame joke, but then I guess that's why the hand punched Guybrush for saying it. :P

TofuHead · 07/08/2009, 10:05 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by thesporkman

Sorry, I just thought maybe you didn't get the joke when you were complaining that it didn't rhyme. I agree that that was a pretty lame joke, but then I guess that's why the hand punched Guybrush for saying it. :P

Yeah, it was schticky, but it just wasn't schticky and/or obvious enough.

Also, to the troll above I wasn't struggling by any means. I'm pointing out problems with the game and puzzle design. Many puzzles aren't logical at all, especially by old adventure game standards. If you read through Ron Gilbert's recap of programming MI1, you'll notice he took care to make every puzzle make sense, be funny, be memorable and not be repetitive. MI1 will always be one of my favorite games because of this.

Planeforger · 07/08/2009, 10:26 pm

I disagree with almost all of your points, in that pretty much all of the puzzles were inherently logical and didn't cause many people any problems:

The glassblower's horn - If you had talked to the glassblower, you'd know that the thing was designed to shatter anything made from Flotsam's crystal reefs. Besides, the crystal nose was the most obvious thing on the door to interact with, and there was an amusing irony in blowing its nose.

The monkey coffin - Sure, this one would've made more sense as a Box o' Root Beer, but it's also one of the first things that anyone would try while searching the ship. Besides, even with hints turned off Elaine tells you where the root beer is.

The mints - It made sense, and showed off how items can be used multiple times for the tutorial. I don't have any problems with it.

The chain & coals - You're supposed to be getting on the ship, so you should be trying every available (and immediately obvious) entrance. You can't have been expected to set a trap without learning how the captain reacts to different things...and for all you knew, the grease could've been part of an unrelated puzzle.

The socks - Ok, that bit was random. I think you're suppsed to find them while solving the other puzzle, though. Also, why would you play a Monkey Island game without clicking everything in the environment?

The tar puzzle - Guybrush couldn't have just stuck his hand in, since his hand knew what he was planning. He had to trick his hand into trapping itself.

The map puzzle - The image of a hand placing a map on the well was enough to lead me to solve the puzzle. They couldn't have made it any more obvious while still calling it a puzzle. :/

The 2nd map puzzle - Guybrush tells you to follow the winds, so you automatically knew to use the weathervane, and any time that didn't work you referred to the map for instructions. This was much easier than the first map puzzle, imo.

The Marquis totem - I didn't work the sound thing out either, but one holding-up of the weathervane was enough to show me the solution. It was certainly more distinct than the others.

The doll phobia - Plastic didn't exist in piratey times, but porcelain dolls did.

Elaine's uselessness - We saw her for all of a few minutes, and she's clearly totally calm and confident despite having no way to escape. Moreover, she's resourceful enough to sabotage the mast, and keeps telling Guybrush what to do - how is that not in character?

Elaine's mother - It's a joke. Also, since her mother was never mentioned and she was never called an orphan, I think it's fair game for her to have met her mother sometime in the past decade.

D'Oro the Explorer - That was really funny, and didn't have to rhyme. Also, they admitted it was a bad pun by having Guybrush punch himself while saying it. Win/win situation.

U-Tube - Yeah, I agree, they could've done more with that. Still, they shouldn't have dropped the joke.

Marquis - I didn't even think of the perfume sprayer in EFMI, since he's such a minor character. Besides, this guy is a mad physician who is much more French and demented than anyone else in the series - making him original. As for the accent, he's a madman- who's to say that he is actually French?

The name thing - It's a tradition in the series, and certainly downplayed in ToMI, thus not an issue.

Not saying what you choose - Every Monkey Island game has had this to some extent (but generally as a joke). ToMI took it further, maybe too far, but there was only one conversation where it really bothered me.

Memorable characters - I agree. I don't even remember the name (or any defining characteristics) of the guy who became your first mate, who will clearly be in later episodes. van...vilderbilt? Hm. :/

thesporkman · 07/08/2009, 10:45 pm

Quote:

Memorable characters - I agree. I don't even remember the name (or any defining characteristics) of the guy who became your first mate, who will clearly be in later episodes. van...vilderbilt? Hm. :/

Van Winslow! He was my second favorite character after the Marquis de Singe. I couldn't help but crack up when he so cheerfully spoke about his internal hemorrhaging. I'm really glad that his character is likely to show up in future episodes.

Thraxas · 07/08/2009, 10:47 pm

After having played many, many point and click adventurers (as I'm sure you have) my brain has become accustomed to how some of these 'illogical' things work. The first thing I did when I saw the crystal nose was put the glass blowers horn on it and I personally thought it was pretty obvious that you had to use the map on the wishing well to start the puzzle from the picture on the map.

With the hot coals. I had tried to climb the anchor first to get on the ship. So after I had fallen off the plank and left that giant grease stain there and I needed something to light the bombs the first thing I thought about was climbing the anchor again and seeing if the coal that bounced on the dock would light the grease. It did.

As for your rant about the tar puzzle. Why, when the hand is trying to stop you from saying where you would like to go do you think it would let itself be put into the tar and make things easy for you? It made perfect sense to me to 'trick' the possessed hand into get stuck in the tar.

My only complaint is that maybe the puzzles were a little too easy.
---
EDIT -> Curse my slow typing two posts in the time it took me to write one

Corv · 07/08/2009, 11:00 pm

I agree with what Planeforger wrote almost entirely.

Skuld · 07/08/2009, 11:02 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by TofuHead

The glass blower's glass breaking horn should have been used specifically only on items labeled as "glass", or "unbreakable glass". This was a problem when you encounter the "crystal nose". How hard would it have been to make it an "unbreakable glass nose", or if you want to be more subtle, at least make all the glass items the same color. Or at LEAST make Guybrush try to break it and say, "Guess that's not gonna work". Indirect hints are better than NONE AT ALL.

The glass blower DID say his unbreakable glass was made from the crystal reefs around Flotsam Island though.

I have to agree that some puzzles were not really obvious though, such as the Narwhal / fire thing or right at the end how you need to "trap" your hand.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TofuHead

In 2 years, not once has the captain worn socks. Not once has he reeled in his laundry? Not once has he put on those pink pantalons?

Hey, we're talking about pirates here

Quote:

Originally Posted by TofuHead

Why dont I just stick my hand in the tar to begin with? This just doesn't make any sense.

I agree it wasn't that obvious or intuitive, but if you tried to stick your hand in the tar directly, obviously it would resist. It's the whole point of the scene, you know, Guybrush's hand getting conscious again and trying everything to prevent Guybrush from going back to LeChuck and Elaine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TofuHead

Also, it was not obvious that you should use the map with the wishing well. Just putting a picture of a hand gripping a map next to the well could easily mean "START FROM HERE", not PUT THE MAP OVER THE WELL TO START THE PUZZLE FOR NO EXPLAINED REASON.

I have to agree but hey, nothing to get angry over. Remember the puzzle about finding directions to Pegnose's home back in EfMI? That was a different story.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TofuHead

There was one last face, and since it had not been used yet, it should have been that one by process of elimination, right? Unfortunately, Guybrush hardly holds the damned thing out for more than 2 seconds so I ended up pulling it out two more times to figure out which eyes, nose and mouth to use for the final god. It worked. I had NO idea that the actual solution was to use the Marquis' vocal ows, ees and moans of pleasure (???) to figure how it went.

I did it your way, too and needed Guybrush to hold it out more than once, but what's wrong with that? Jeez, you really seem hell bent on trying to find something bad about this game.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TofuHead

This is a work in progress... Please don't complain in this thread. Disagreeing with some points is fine, but you saw the title and you knew what was coming.

Okay, what's the point of this thread then? The whole point of a discussion forum is to discuss different opinions and if you're allowed to state yours, we are also allowed to disagree with you, are we not?

TofuHead · 07/08/2009, 11:03 pm

I honestly dont think it would be so hard for guybrush to just sit down by the tar and slap his hand in it without having the other interfere.

I'd also like to point out that I'm merely pointing out some unintuitive things. I didn't necessarily stop or have problems with all of the mentioned puzzles. I'm just noting that you would never have seen these problems in previous games.

I am a DIE HARD fan, and I'm really sorry to see the series go down this way though it is a marked improvement over MI4.

Rubarack · 07/08/2009, 11:05 pm

Seriously? You found D'oro the explorer funny? There's nothing to it at all, it's just oh look this guy has a name that sounds a bit like someone I've heard of.

While a lot of the puzzles are not so illogical to be difficult to solve solvable they're still unsatisfying. The root beer, membership card, grease fire and hand in tar puzzles are all solved solely by clicking on everything you see. It's an adventure game staple that you click on everything, but it's kind of lame when doing so is solving puzzles left and right.

TofuHead · 07/08/2009, 11:07 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skuld

Okay, what's the point of this thread then? The whole point of a discussion forum is to discuss different opinions and if you're allowed to state yours, we are also allowed to disagree with you, are we not?

I pointedly said that it's fine to disagree on points, but it's completely antiproductive to say something like "this thread is stupid! ur dumb!" etc.

Also, I'm not LOOKING for things wrong with the game. They're just there. I can't blindly look at this game as a masterpiece because I'm a fanboy. I'm simply looking at it as a person who has played all 4 of its predecessors and judging it based on the bars raised by 1-3, and subsequently dropped to the bottom by 4.

Looking back over the thread, I would have been a massively successful troll if I had wrote this with the intention of sparking discontent amongst you guys. I'm honestly surprised there aren't people that disliked it more than I did.

Thraxas · 07/08/2009, 11:13 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by TofuHead

I honestly dont think it would be so hard for guybrush to just sit down by the tar and slap his hand in it without having the other interfere.

It's the interfering hand that he's trying to cover in tar, of course it wouldn't just let him

Pretender · 07/08/2009, 11:17 pm

lol some people take things waay too seriously.. I can find stuff about ALL games. Like why did Guybrush do the moonwalk in Curse? Why do games have puzzles? They make no sense? Ooh I don't like your jokes.. blablalbla seriously blahblahblah

TofuHead · 07/08/2009, 11:19 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thraxas

It's the interfering hand that he's trying to cover in tar, of course it wouldn't just let him

You're right. It still doesn't seem like it would be that difficult.

TofuHead · 07/08/2009, 11:20 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pretender

lol some people take things waay too seriously.. I can find stuff about ALL games. Like why did Guybrush do the moonwalk in Curse? Why do games have puzzles? They make no sense? Ooh I don't like your jokes.. blablalbla seriously blahblahblah

I congratulate you on your ability to find stuff about all games.

And the puzzles should be fun, not facepalm worthy.

07/08/2009, 09:42 pm	#1
TofuHead Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 139	I liked parts of this game, but this needs to be done: my Personal Quips Wiki For your safety/sanity, I have spoilered the parts that would be considered rants. I understand it left out was due to tech difficulties, but I really would have liked point and click movement. I got stuck very early on since there were no real clues as to where certain puzzles were--not to mention seemingly useless items being the solutions to a problem. For me, I had no idea the anchor would trigger a coal fire. I saw the oil and thought "fire!", and I searched the whole fricking island and there was no fire. The clothesline did not catch my attention at all until hours later and the clue as to where the card was did not lead me to the socks at all! Hints should be directly in the dialogue or associated with certain items, and not placed in random places in unrelated things. The glass blower's glass breaking horn should have been used specifically only on items labeled as "glass", or "unbreakable glass". This was a problem when you encounter the "crystal nose". How hard would it have been to make it an "unbreakable glass nose", or if you want to be more subtle, at least make all the glass items the same color. Or at LEAST make Guybrush try to break it and say, "Guess that's not gonna work". Indirect hints are better than NONE AT ALL. I understand that some puzzles take time to solve but when you solve it, you're supposed to go, "OHHH, it's so obvious now!", not, "...what?? Are you kidding???" ex 1. On Guybrush's boat with the monkey coffin. Use monkey coffin with special monkey? Logical... "use" monkey coffin to open and find flat root beer? Not so much. ex 2. Use breath mints on grog. Uhhh, why is it flat again? Using repetition with puzzles is never good. There's no point since the first puzzle was solved this way to begin with. ex 3. Use chain to get onto ship so that the captain will throw hot coals on you. What?? Just having to use that as a puzzle title is terrible to begin with! Who even does that in the first place? Oh, a person is trying to get on board my ship to take command! I guess I'll DROP HOT COALS ON HIM. ex 4. Find club membership card in random socks. This is not a good solution to a puzzle, especially when the hint was "I lost it when I first became captain of the Narwhal." It makes absolutely no sense. In 2 years, not once has the captain worn socks. Not once has he reeled in his laundry? Not once has he put on those pink pantalons? Also, putting two solutions into the same place is never a good idea. Each object should have a sole purpose. It's fine if you can use the item in more than one place, but never put two solutions to two separate problems in the same place, especially when it's not in the same object. This could easily mislead people to thinking they're done. They could have easily put the sock in a random place for us to find. They could even have included a hint like, "I lost it way back when I first became captain of the Narwhal. I'd wager it's because I lost my lucky sock. It's always one sock you know? They just disappear!" ex 5. The tar puzzle. Seriously? Okay, man the wheel. Have posessed hand smack it and then turn the ship wildly. Pretty funny. Use cannon to break barrel? Logical. Look at map to get into fight with hand in order to get stuck in the tar?? What?? Why dont I just stick my hand in the tar to begin with? This just doesn't make any sense. ex 6. The map puzzle. There is no clear demarcation of the order of steps. This made the puzzle harder than it needed to be. Also, it was not obvious that you should use the map with the wishing well. Just putting a picture of a hand gripping a map next to the well could easily mean "START FROM HERE", not PUT THE MAP OVER THE WELL TO START THE PUZZLE FOR NO EXPLAINED REASON. ex 7: The 2nd map puzzle. Are you serious? ANOTHER one? Wasnt the first one bad enough? There wasn't even anything funny that happens along the way. This seemed tedious and entirely pointless. Was there even a point?? Isn't this game supposed to be fun??? And use the wind? I mean, considering how the first puzzle worked, it would make sense to follow the SOUND of the wind on the paths. Not pull out your weather vane to see where it's blowing. Why not just put a picture of the weather vane? I know alot of people had trouble with this one. ex 8: The marquis totem. Okay, I thought this was pretty funny, until I realized you couldn't stuff the vane into his ###. So I pulled out the weather vane to see if I could see the face. There was one last face, and since it had not been used yet, it should have been that one by process of elimination, right? Unfortunately, Guybrush hardly holds the damned thing out for more than 2 seconds so I ended up pulling it out two more times to figure out which eyes, nose and mouth to use for the final god. It worked. I had NO idea that the actual solution was to use the Marquis' vocal ows, ees and moans of pleasure (???) to figure how it went. I DID like that they made you use a wheel of cheese on the imprint of the jail cell inscriptions, showing that someone broke it deliberately to decorate the windows. Using the theme of the island as a solution to a puzzle was at least some sort of brilliance. ex 9. The tar puzzle. Seriously? Okay, man the wheel. Have posessed hand smack it and then turn the ship wildly. Pretty funny. Use cannon to break barrel? Logical. Look at map to get into fight with hand in order to get stuck in the tar?? What?? Why dont I just stick my hand in the tar to begin with? This just doesn't make any sense. Bad jokes/continuity problems: Character continuity: Guybrush's extreme porcelain phobia. At first mention, Guybrush didn't react whatsoever. He only does so when he picks up the doll, while he wouldn't even have touched in past games. Yeah, he vocalizes his discontent, yet he touches it anyways. Could have easily have been a plastic doll. Character continuity: Elaine's love-hate for Guybrush. Elaine was always a tomboy: she was a female pirate who was the governor of a tri island area for pirates. She fought off advances of typical pirate men (Fester Shinetop), and she never needed saving, as she has proven to Guybrush time and time again... except in the 3rd when she ended up turned to gold--but that was Guybrush's fault to begin with. The whole point to her character is that she never really needs saving, and that's all she did this time around, aside from being lovey-dovey. Continuity: Guybrush's mention about the "mother in law visit": ELAINE'S MOTHER DOES NOT PLAY AN ACTIVE ROLE IN HER LIFE. Aside from Herman Toothrot, she has not had any family play an active role in her life, and that was not necessarily canon, at least in many fans eyes. Hispanic pirate with fruity accent that plays with dolls. Enough said. D'oro the explorer. It didn't even rhyme. And seriously? D'oro the explorer? Seriously?? Bad joke: U-tube. It should have been either really obvious, or not there at all. There seemed to be a vague reference to it, but there werent really any jokes relating the glass U to youtube. At least ones that were evident or funny IMO. Bad joke: God of breaking wind. :\ Toilet humor? Really? General: Marquis de Singe. The perfume kiosk merchant in EFMI was a pretty funny character. He was french, snooty and wore a powdered wig/white makeup. Basically, the Marquis is a rehash of this character, only much more effeminate, cheesy and demented. Not that I hated his character, but it seemed in poor taste to do something that's already been done. Unfortunately the guy providing the voice for him didn't seem to have a good grasp on a French accent. It was extremely inconsistent, which grated on my nerves. Overdone jokes: Forgettable Driftwood... I mean Seepgood. I mean Mancomb! Wait, what? They way overdid this one. Geepwood, sheepwood, dogwood, manhood! It's just not funny after the 9000th time! Wait... that's not what I chose! Why is he saying something else! My god. It was hilarious in the first game. But that was only one set of lines, with one person, and it was because Guybrush was momentarily stupefied by the stunning beauty that is Elaine Marley. Lack of memorable characters: This is a big one! I can't even remember any of the minor characters names, aside from the Marquis de Singe, and that was only because Dominic Armato was the only one to mispronounce the name. Their quirks were not at all amusing either. A glassblower that... well, he was just a glassblower. Then there was the legless drunk that was... uh. Well he... had a magical spyglass... for some... reason? This is a work in progress... Please don't complain in this thread. Disagreeing with some points is fine, but you saw the title and you knew what was coming. edit: It seems people are mistaking my criticism with my extreme difficulties with the game. I played through the game fine. I didn't cry and sob over how I had to spend 10 seconds to realize that I had to use the vane to figure out the wind direction on the 2nd map puzzle or anything. I'm just making a point. Last edited by TofuHead; 07/08/2009 at 11:36 pm.

07/08/2009, 11:03 pm	#14
TofuHead Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 139	I honestly dont think it would be so hard for guybrush to just sit down by the tar and slap his hand in it without having the other interfere. I'd also like to point out that I'm merely pointing out some unintuitive things. I didn't necessarily stop or have problems with all of the mentioned puzzles. I'm just noting that you would never have seen these problems in previous games. I am a DIE HARD fan, and I'm really sorry to see the series go down this way though it is a marked improvement over MI4. Last edited by TofuHead; 07/08/2009 at 11:05 pm.

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07/08/2009, 09:47 pm	#2
Kaldire Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Sacramento California Posts: 886	you got spunk kid.. pirate spunk... ewww.. lol

07/08/2009, 10:02 pm	#5
smashing Angels Fan Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Singapore Posts: 424	I have to agree that a second map puzzle in one game is a little too much. The difficulty of the second map did increase, but it is really just like cooking off a recipe books with all the ingredients in place. Wished they could have at least make a puzzle out of the calender, instead of just moving in circles. In fact, I think this make two map puzzles in Tales successfully made the swamp puzzle from Escape of Monkey Island somewhat more 'fun' in comparison.

07/08/2009, 10:03 pm	#6
hamzie Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 389	Tofuhead you have a shit sense of humour.. and you are struggling through probably the easiest episode of the series Just stop playing now

07/08/2009, 10:03 pm	#7
thesporkman Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 952	Sorry, I just thought maybe you didn't get the joke when you were complaining that it didn't rhyme. I agree that that was a pretty lame joke, but then I guess that's why the hand punched Guybrush for saying it. :P

07/08/2009, 10:26 pm	#9
Planeforger Freelance Lagomorph Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Melbourne, Australia Interesting Posts: 0 Posts: 290	I disagree with almost all of your points, in that pretty much all of the puzzles were inherently logical and didn't cause many people any problems: The glassblower's horn - If you had talked to the glassblower, you'd know that the thing was designed to shatter anything made from Flotsam's crystal reefs. Besides, the crystal nose was the most obvious thing on the door to interact with, and there was an amusing irony in blowing its nose. The monkey coffin - Sure, this one would've made more sense as a Box o' Root Beer, but it's also one of the first things that anyone would try while searching the ship. Besides, even with hints turned off Elaine tells you where the root beer is. The mints - It made sense, and showed off how items can be used multiple times for the tutorial. I don't have any problems with it. The chain & coals - You're supposed to be getting on the ship, so you should be trying every available (and immediately obvious) entrance. You can't have been expected to set a trap without learning how the captain reacts to different things...and for all you knew, the grease could've been part of an unrelated puzzle. The socks - Ok, that bit was random. I think you're suppsed to find them while solving the other puzzle, though. Also, why would you play a Monkey Island game without clicking everything in the environment? The tar puzzle - Guybrush couldn't have just stuck his hand in, since his hand knew what he was planning. He had to trick his hand into trapping itself. The map puzzle - The image of a hand placing a map on the well was enough to lead me to solve the puzzle. They couldn't have made it any more obvious while still calling it a puzzle. :/ The 2nd map puzzle - Guybrush tells you to follow the winds, so you automatically knew to use the weathervane, and any time that didn't work you referred to the map for instructions. This was much easier than the first map puzzle, imo. The Marquis totem - I didn't work the sound thing out either, but one holding-up of the weathervane was enough to show me the solution. It was certainly more distinct than the others. The doll phobia - Plastic didn't exist in piratey times, but porcelain dolls did. Elaine's uselessness - We saw her for all of a few minutes, and she's clearly totally calm and confident despite having no way to escape. Moreover, she's resourceful enough to sabotage the mast, and keeps telling Guybrush what to do - how is that not in character? Elaine's mother - It's a joke. Also, since her mother was never mentioned and she was never called an orphan, I think it's fair game for her to have met her mother sometime in the past decade. D'Oro the Explorer - That was really funny, and didn't have to rhyme. Also, they admitted it was a bad pun by having Guybrush punch himself while saying it. Win/win situation. U-Tube - Yeah, I agree, they could've done more with that. Still, they shouldn't have dropped the joke. Marquis - I didn't even think of the perfume sprayer in EFMI, since he's such a minor character. Besides, this guy is a mad physician who is much more French and demented than anyone else in the series - making him original. As for the accent, he's a madman- who's to say that he is actually French? The name thing - It's a tradition in the series, and certainly downplayed in ToMI, thus not an issue. Not saying what you choose - Every Monkey Island game has had this to some extent (but generally as a joke). ToMI took it further, maybe too far, but there was only one conversation where it really bothered me. Memorable characters - I agree. I don't even remember the name (or any defining characteristics) of the guy who became your first mate, who will clearly be in later episodes. van...vilderbilt? Hm. :/

07/08/2009, 10:47 pm	#11
Thraxas Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 8	After having played many, many point and click adventurers (as I'm sure you have) my brain has become accustomed to how some of these 'illogical' things work. The first thing I did when I saw the crystal nose was put the glass blowers horn on it and I personally thought it was pretty obvious that you had to use the map on the wishing well to start the puzzle from the picture on the map. With the hot coals. I had tried to climb the anchor first to get on the ship. So after I had fallen off the plank and left that giant grease stain there and I needed something to light the bombs the first thing I thought about was climbing the anchor again and seeing if the coal that bounced on the dock would light the grease. It did. As for your rant about the tar puzzle. Why, when the hand is trying to stop you from saying where you would like to go do you think it would let itself be put into the tar and make things easy for you? It made perfect sense to me to 'trick' the possessed hand into get stuck in the tar. My only complaint is that maybe the puzzles were a little too easy. --- EDIT -> Curse my slow typing two posts in the time it took me to write one

07/08/2009, 11:00 pm	#12
Corv Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 27	I agree with what Planeforger wrote almost entirely.

07/08/2009, 11:05 pm	#15
Rubarack Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 96	Seriously? You found D'oro the explorer funny? There's nothing to it at all, it's just oh look this guy has a name that sounds a bit like someone I've heard of. While a lot of the puzzles are not so illogical to be difficult to solve solvable they're still unsatisfying. The root beer, membership card, grease fire and hand in tar puzzles are all solved solely by clicking on everything you see. It's an adventure game staple that you click on everything, but it's kind of lame when doing so is solving puzzles left and right.

07/08/2009, 11:17 pm	#18
Pretender Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 78	lol some people take things waay too seriously.. I can find stuff about ALL games. Like why did Guybrush do the moonwalk in Curse? Why do games have puzzles? They make no sense? Ooh I don't like your jokes.. blablalbla seriously blahblahblah