The controls are (almost) perfect! - How to fix (or not break) for episode 2.

[parabolee]

NOTE: The main point of this entire post is summed up here :-

Controller support (especially 360 controller support) should have the right stick set as a mouse pointer control!


Right now the controls are a little awkward for some people. But as far as I am concerned they can be made perfect in less than 5 minutes! That is if you are OK using a controller.

The 360 controller support in Wallace & Gromit was not very good IMO, because TTG made the huge error of having the right stick only highlight objects that could be interacted with. I found this very painful and if it was added to Tales Chapter 2 I would be very upset because it would interfere with the method I used with Chapter 1, which I was VERY happy with.

Finding the mouse/keyboard setup OK, but a little awkward (especially since I play on my couch using my HDTV) I decided to try the 360 controller support. To my surprise everything was mapped perfectly and was MUCH easier to use than the keyboard but TTG removed any use of the right stick. which I find very strange since mapping that as a mouse pointer would be a perfect control setup in my opinion.

Thankfully using a fantastic free program called Xpadder it takes less than 5 minutes to fix this strange omission and have what is in my opinion the perfect control setup for Tales of Monkey Island!

Xpadder link -
http://www.softpedia.com/get/System/.../Xpadder.shtml

With this program simply go through the setup so that it recognises all the 360 inputs. Then click the icon in the bottom right hand corner of the right stick and select mouse control. Then go into the settings and change sensitivity to your own liking (I prefer 36, but something between 30-45 would probably work depending on your taste). And boom your all set for a very enjoyable and a comfortable control experience with Tales of Monkey Island!

I noticed a whole bunch of other people on these boards did the same as me and were all happy with that control setup.

I respectfully ask Telltale to either have this as the default controller setup in the next Chapter, OR DO NOT CHANGE IT!.

Because this setup would be great in Wallace and Gromit too, but because of how the right stick is mapped it interferes with Xpadder and makes it impossible to setup in this way

I know some people prefer the accuracy of the mouse, and you do lose that a little with the stick as a pointer. But it does not take much getting used to and is well worth it for how nice the game plays with the controller. For anyone interested here is how the controller setup up works once this is done -

LEFT STICK = Control Guybrush (with full 360 degree control)
RIGHT STICK = Control mouse pointer to select things (only thing you need Xpadder to fix)

A = Select (same as left click)
B = Cancel/exit (from inventory)
X = Inventory
Y = Examine in inventory

START = Menu (same as Escape)
BACK = Pause (same as Space)

RIGHT TRIGGER = Select (same as left click)
LEFT TRIGGER = Run (same as SHIFT)

PERFECT I tell you!

[lechuckgl]

Would hurt anyone if they added an option to play like and old school point & click, a la Sam & Max. In fact...it WILL hurt me if the don't

[parabolee]

Originally Posted by lechuckgl

Would hurt anyone if they added an option to play like and old school point & click, a la Sam & Max. In fact...it WILL hurt me if the don't

Never going to happen! To many technical issue's, it's simply a case of dynamic and interesting camera angles = NO POINT AND CLICK.

And to be honest it's really not that big of a deal, I understand the mouse/keyboard setup is a little awkward. But I was one arguing for point and click controls too (see the private forum Q&A) and I'm converted.

Point and Click is out of date, and Sam & Max kinda suffered for it when you compare how cool the camera angles are in Tales compared to Sam & Max.

With my fix above, we don't need point and click!

[tmsmyth4]

Originally Posted by parabolee

With my fix above, we don't need point and click!

agreed, xpadder worked really well and I would love to see ToMI on 360! its the prefect control system for a gamepad so I'm surprised 360/ps3 wasnt announced on launch.

[Flip86]

Originally Posted by parabolee

Never going to happen! To many technical issue's, it's simply a case of dynamic and interesting camera angles = NO POINT AND CLICK.

I never understood this argument. If you click an object to interact with, you already walk there, so there is obviously path finding in the game. How would anything change if you just walk to the place where you click? You just go there and the camera changes as it would if you controlled the character with your arrow or WASD keys.

Edit: just to clarify, I'm fine with the controls the way they are, I just don't understand that particular line of reasoning.

[parabolee]

Originally Posted by Flip86

I never understood this argument. If you click an object to interact with, you already walk there, so there is obviously path finding in the game. How would anything change if you just walk to the place where you click? You just go there and the camera changes as it would if you controlled the character with your arrow or WASD keys.

Edit: just to clarify, I'm fine with the controls the way they are, I just don't understand that particular line of reasoning.

Because when there is no item to click on they would have to set up path finding to area's that are not the floor. Sure it could be done, but it's very time consuming. At least that is my interpretation form what was posted in the private forum by team members.

It is cleat that a more dynamic camera causes issues with point and click controls. That's why Sam & Max has mostly uninteresting angles and the games that have more interesting angles have no point and click. Plus they already said as much.

But to get back on point, have you tried the control setup I suggested? Most people are very happy with it. Seems many people are stubbornly hanging onto the past for no reason

I admit the current TTG control system is not perfected yet, but they are on the right track. And when using a controller (with right stick for pointer) I think it's a perfect balance of point and click and direct control.

[Flip86]

Originally Posted by parabolee

Because when there is no item to click on they would have to set up path finding to area's that are not the floor. Sure it could be done, but it's very time consuming. At least that is my interpretation form what was posted in the private forum by team members.

It is cleat that a more dynamic camera causes issues with point and click controls. That's why Sam & Max has mostly uninteresting angles and the games that have more interesting angles have no point and click. Plus they already said as much.

But to get back on point, have you tried the control setup I suggested? Most people are very happy with it. Seems many people are stubbornly hanging onto the past for no reason

I admit the current TTG control system is not perfected yet, but they are on the right track. And when using a controller (with right stick for pointer) I think it's a perfect balance of point and click and direct control.

I already said I have no problems with the controls, I just don't see why it couldn't be made optional to have the point & click control as well. The game plays fine when I use WASD for movement and the keyboard shortcuts for things like opening the inventory, but I am an extremely lazy person and like to play adventure games with only one hand so I can use the other to feed my mouth with beer and chips

[parabolee]

Originally Posted by Flip86

I already said I have no problems with the controls, I just don't see why it couldn't be made optional to have the point & click control as well. The game plays fine when I use WASD for movement and the keyboard shortcuts for things like opening the inventory, but I am an extremely lazy person and like to play adventure games with only one hand so I can use the other to feed my mouth with beer and chips

Well I wasn't speaking in regards to you when talking about those that are complaining.

I found that with the pad setup, most of the time I have one hand free for food/drink anyway. I added the left bumper as a mouse click too so I can go through dialogue with one hand

[lhnz]

Originally Posted by parabolee

Never going to happen! To many technical issue's, it's simply a case of dynamic and interesting camera angles = NO POINT AND CLICK.

That's a real shame. I would choose normal camera angles and a point'n'click control scheme over faux movie camera angles any day.

[parabolee]

Originally Posted by lhnz

That's a real shame. I would choose normal camera angles and a point'n'click control scheme over faux movie camera angles any day.

Having cool dynamic and interesting camera angles is not "faux movie", it's just better. Helps make the world more interesting and exciting.

I really don't think the controls are as big of a deal as many people make out. I payed Wallace & Gromit with the keyboard/mouse combo and while it was awkward at first (sitting on a couch and all) it was fine.

And with my above controller setup, it's perfect for me.

[werpu]

Originally Posted by parabolee

LEFT STICK = Control Guybrush (with full 360 degree control)
RIGHT STICK = Control mouse pointer to select things (only thing you need Xpadder to fix)

Actually I tried it with the mouse control on the right stick, I prefer the Wallace and grommit like hotspot cycling, the mouse cursor method does not really work out for me that well because it means too much dead movement in between and the stick itself is not that precise in absolute movement.

[parabolee]

Originally Posted by werpu

Actually I tried it with the mouse control on the right stick, I prefer the Wallace and grommit like hotspot cycling, the mouse cursor method does not really work out for me that well because it means too much dead movement in between and the stick itself is not that precise in absolute movement.

Well you can change the sensitivity settings to suit you. I had no problems with how precise it was.

Also if you want to emulate the IMO horrible W&G hotspot method. Try mapping F4 (hotspot select) to the right stick.

[infernogott]

i played it with xbox controller and mouse and that was fine.

[werpu]

Originally Posted by parabolee

Well you can change the sensitivity settings to suit you. I had no problems with how precise it was.

Also if you want to emulate the IMO horrible W&G hotspot method. Try mapping F4 (hotspot select) to the right stick.

Ah thanks for the F4 hint I will give it a try...
Anyway what I meant was that you have to move with the stick over a load of dead area before finding the next hotspot. Now this works out well with the mouse because you have absolute control, it does not really work out to well for me with the stick due to the relative control you have with a stick (which means it takes longer for me to reach or find a hotspot than with a mouse while the hotspot cycling in fact was faster and showed me instantly the hotspots which i hate to search)

Anyway if f4 on the stick does not work out this is no problem, pad + mouse is close to perfect for me anyway, in fact I was constantly switching between pad + mouse and pad only in W&G and settled for pad + mouse in monkey island.

Anyway my guess is, Telltale opened a can of worms here, they did not expect this to happen . Once you move away from classical point and click you open a can of worms and cannot make everyone happy :-)
Once you introduce pad control, you will have a screaming minority who wants pad control back, once you introduce something outside of point and click a minority will cry for point and click. My guess is even if TTG would move back to point and click only some people would cry :-)

[Rather Dashing]

I think this episode used camera angles to FAR greater effect than Wallace and Gromit, where it felt like it existed mostly for the house layout and a scant few close-ups. But a lot of the environments for Episode One of Tales feel far better built for this kind of interaction.

[corruptbiggins]

I personally think that if they went back to pure point & click like in the Sam & Max seasons then their games would lose a lot of what makes them special. To me direct control makes the game feel so much more immersive and, well, epic - movie like which ain't no bad thing! And you can do a lot more with direct control than p&c - the puzzle in De Singe's lab wouldn't have been anywhere near as good if it was point & click control only.

Anyway, this is just my opinion. I'm not against people having the choice, by the way.

[homerjs]

"My guess is even if TTG would move back to point and click only some people would cry :-)"
i dont think that at all, and especially for monkey island i just cant understand the decision, since monkey 4 was so hated for its direct control scheme

[corruptbiggins]

Originally Posted by homerjs

...since monkey 4 was so hated for its direct control scheme

That's because in Monkey 4 it was badly implemented as with Grim Fandango - they proved that direct control doesn't work with static cameras.

[Chris1]

Oh for goodness sake.
People, we're now up to five threads arguing for point and click control. I don't want to discourage you from voicing your opinions, but would it kill you to go post in one of them, rather than derailing this thread?

Anyway, sorry for that little outburst but I do want to bump this one back onto topic because I think it's important.

Originally Posted by parabolee

LEFT STICK = Control Guybrush (with full 360 degree control)
RIGHT STICK = Control mouse pointer to select things (only thing you need Xpadder to fix)

A = Select (same as left click)
B = Cancel/exit (from inventory)
X = Inventory
Y = Examine in inventory

START = Menu (same as Escape)
BACK = Pause (same as Space)

RIGHT TRIGGER = Select (same as left click)
LEFT TRIGGER = Run (same as SHIFT)

PERFECT I tell you!

Almost perfect.
I think not only do Telltale need implement the Right Stick for moving the cursor, but they need to add just a tiny bit of correction or auto-aim. Moving the cursor with a stick isn't as accurate as with a mouse, and some correction is needed to avoid frustration.
Also, it's annoying to have to keep holding down the left trigger. Either have autorun on and use the trigger to walk, or just use the fact that it's an analogue stick to work out how fast to move.
Icing on the cake would be the highlight option being placed back on the pad (rather than having to reach for the keyboard and press F4). You wouldn't really need this if there was a little bit of automatic correction, though, as sweeping for hotspots would be easier.

[parabolee]

Well I guess they could map (or we can with Xpadder) F4 to the right bumper. Feels like cheating to me!

But personally I do not understand people who think the stick is not precise enough! I played through most of the classic Lucasarts games via ScummVM with an Xbox controller (on xbox) and never had any problems pointing and selecting.