Walkthroughs...

[syrup]

I've never used a walkthrough, to me it seems totally pointless, i know puzzles get hard and frustrating at times and i guess i can understand people consulting one but on the whole they've become a crutch for weak gamers who want nothing more than plot rather than a challenge.

It kinda defeats the purpose of playing puzzle based games, it's kinda like buying a crossword book from a thrift store with all the puzzle completed, you can flick through it and see all the pretty dot to dots in their full squiggled glory but you missed out on the fun part! Or buying a book and flicking through to the last page to see what happens in the end, you just spoil all the goodness in between!

After posting on the forum for several months it totally perplexes me when people post so much in the hints section. It just seems like a waste of money, buying a game and then asking someone else to tell you how to play it.

Guides and walkthroughs have become to easily accessible and weaken the experience of gaming. People seem to be asking for help for the easiest parts of games! Out of curiosity i looked through the hints forum and was gobsmacked at the amount of people who just seemed to have given in when confronted with something that can be figured out logically in about 10 minutes. I mean Monkey Island even comes with a hint system (another development i think is just pointless) so how come people still cant figure things out with that cranked up to the max!

Just though i'd share my frustrations and see what other people think of this tragedy in point and click city!

[BlankCanvasDJ]

I certainly see your point and generally agree with you, however I don't think many of us play adventure games for the puzzles alone. I mean, we would just play puzzle games if that were the case. We play adventure games for the story and the characters and sometimes, if you're really stuck on a puzzle, it's more enjoyable to get a hint about it so you can continue the story.

[Darth Marsden]

UHS.

I do sometimes get stuck in adventure games, and when that happens, I really do prefer to be nudged in the right direction rather then flat-out told what to do next. UHS (Universal Hint System) does this pretty well, though it can take a while for games to be covered there, which is the most frustrating part, I find. But if you're playing older games, then you're sorted.

The alternative is to spend ages struggling to get onto the exact train of thought that the developers were on, and I'd rather not do that. I'm not playing a game to spend it being frustrated.

[syrup]

Hmmmmm yeah your right to be honest, hint systems are probably a more useful solution for frustrated gamers. I've just seen another thread about this ( i should start trawling the forum before i start one!) so it seems i'm not alone in my annoyance over walkthroughs!

[johahyana]

I agree with you...but there a lot of people interested in puzzle games than adventure games.

[natlinxz]

Most of us who aren't six years old anymore don't have all the time in the world to spend playing video games. If you are truly stuck on a puzzle, sometimes you will never figure it out. For example, as a canadian, I couldn't figure out how to mail a letter in maniac mansion. That's just because the postal system is different in the U.S.

So Walkthroughs help those of us who don't have eternity to spend playing Adventure Games, or those who will never figure it out. Also, Telltale isn't just about puzzles, they are about Laugh Out Loud dialogue.

If you hate walkthroughs, don't use 'em. Simple as that. But judging by the success of sites like Gamefaqs, I think many people need them.

[Gryffalio]

Yeah, as above.

I tend to use a hint if I get stuck for more than 5-10 minutes. If something gets too hard i'd rather get a hint than spend dinner thinking about it and then shelving the game and forgetting it... I just don't have time to think through every puzzle if I get stuck. That said, in the 1st S&M/MI i've used hints thrice I believe. Twice for S&M, once for MI. So it's not like I use walkthroughs frequently

[stupidmovie]

On occasion, I'll use a guide. I try not to, and get bummed out when I feel it is necessary, as it DOES take the fun out of point and click adventure games for me. Yes, the storytelling is important -- just like the narrative of most non-adventure games -- but I actually play these games for the logic puzzles. While shooting a peon in the face yields a certain reward in other games, making sense out of a puzzle in an adventure title just seems so... satisfying. I was grinning ear-to-ear after finishing Muzzled!, for example, because I managed to clear it without a walkthrough. Reality 2.0, however, left me a little frustrated and I did, more than once, succumb to the appeal of the walkthrough.

[PariahKing]

It really depends what I am playing. If it is an old, cruel adventure game where I can possibly run into a dead end then I will resort to abusing a walkthrough. But I really try to never use walkthroughs on fair games, the kind of stuff Telltale makes.

[Shen-Zhi]

nah. i'm getting too old to sit in front of the computer for hours and hours just trying around. life has better things to offer than adventure gaming. so i appreciate the walkthru's.

tomi ep. 1 i did without one, but i'm glad i can get quick help whenever i feel i spent enough time on a puzzle. of course i was like the op when i started adventues some 20 years ago...

[syrup]

I also don't have the time i did when i was a kid to play computer games, far from it to be honest. I'm lucky if i get to squeeze in a few hours a week, but sometimes i'll have a marathon day on the rare occasion i have no work in. I still like to retain the longevity of puzzle based games though.

With a walk through you could literally blast through a game in a matter of hours and then its over, your left either wanting a follow up or looking for something similar. If your stuck on a puzzle for 5-10 minutes and then succumb to a walk through it would just feel like using the game play as a mere vehicle for the plot. It's like a lot of the crappy films and TV series about these days, literally ramming plot down your throat instead of developing rich characters and engrossing cinematic environments.

If you spend time in the worlds created and interacting with the characters available it becomes an enriching experience, instead of a disposable quick fix of adventure crack. When i first played MI i was about 9, there was no walk through available so i had to figure it out on my own. It literally took me months to finish. I'd stop playing for a few weeks when i was stuck then pick it back up and gradually chip away at it. I never shelved it for good as it was so engrossing to play, even when i hit a wall it was still full of humor, trying things on other things and getting funny remarks back. If you give up on a game its probably because its pretty crap and there's nothing to draw you back in, no reason to actually want to progress to the end.

These new episodic games, however, are actually really easy and can be completed in one sitting. They seem to be designed for the casual gamer to prevent them from tuning out and leaving them on the shelf, as they want you to be finished with the episode so you'll move on and purchase the next. If your aware that the task at hand isn't that difficult why would you want to cheapen the experience by what is essentially, dare i say, cheating?

I'm not saying walk throughs are evil and shouldn't be consulted at all, what i am saying is that when they're so easily accessible its too easy to just think "OK its been 5 minutes i haven't a clue what to do, don't wanna use my powers of logic and deduction, i wanna see what happens next......wheres that walk through at!?!".

It feels like a reflection of our current cultural climate. We want things now, don't want to wait, have no patience. Read a book - nah i'll watch the movie, cook a meal - nah i'll get a microwave meal or order take out........figure out a puzzle - nah i'll just use a walk through.

[Mataku]

To be honest, i seem to resort to walkthroughs more often then before. I guess i don't have the patience anymore. Maybe it's because i KNOW how easy getting them is. I mean, back when i first started playing adventure games there was no internet, you HAD to think for yourself. And I remember the rush of finally solving a puzzle back then. And the not-so-much feeling i get nowadays. meh. Having said that, If I call my cousin, and we sit on a game together, our combined brains usually makes us finish an adventure game with ease. I have the crazy logic, and he have a normal one, so together we crack the mind of puzzle designers!

[wefeelgroove]

I don't really see the point in being annoyed by OTHER people using walkthroughs. It's not like anyone's forcing you to use them.

Of course people play adventure games for the puzzles, but they may also play them for the story, the dialogue, and, of course, to have fun. I know that when I get stuck on a particularly frustrating puzzle, the game stops being fun after a while. I can't progress any further, and nothing I try seems to work. It's not enjoyable. I don't see a problem getting a hint in a situation like that, since the alternative is giving up and having the game leave a bad taste in your mouth. And I tend to use UHS Hints when I do need help because most of the time, all I need is a prod in the right direction. If anything I wish there were more "hint" FAQs than flat-out walkthroughs.

[Frogacuda]

Walkthroughs are fine as a last resort. I know there were many old school adventure games that I would dead-end in permanently and never be able to get unstuck. Adventure games are like that by nature. But I think when they're too available people do sometimes give up to quick, but I guess it's about knowing what's fun for you.

[xoshinobiox]

i just think we should be able to have a hint whenever we want instead of wait around for max to say something, like a hint button, maybe even get multiple hints getting less ambiguous each time

[JohanShogun]

I'm not really sure what the problem is to be honest, either way if you use a walkthrough or not it's about enjoying the game. If people enjoy the game playing with a walkthrough then why get annoyed? They've still bought the game (it's free for them to enjoy however they want to, without judgement or remarks), they've still enjoyed the game and they will most likely buy the next one.

As for playing without a walkthrough being enriching, for you it is, and that is good for you . I personally don't care if I use one or not, if I'm stuck I'll use one, for the most part I don't get stuck. As for using powers of logic and deduction, consider a carrier in writing sexy source code (read good) I think you'd enjoy it.

When it comes to adventure games, entertainment, sex, food, sleeping, and/or water cooler talk. Let people enjoy it how they want to in the privacy of their own homes, without being judged or spoken down to.

[Avistew]

Originally Posted by xoshinobiox

i just think we should be able to have a hint whenever we want instead of wait around for max to say something, like a hint button, maybe even get multiple hints getting less ambiguous each time

I agree. I think the idea to select your difficulty level is great, but if you want to play on the hardest setting but get stuck and want just one hint, about a specific thing, turning hints on and waiting for someone to say something (hopefully regarding the puzzle you're interested in) isn't ideal. I think that could be why people post in the hints section instead, so they get a more personalised hint.

I think the best would be to combine both. As in, you can select the difficulty level, but then you can ask for a specific hint on a specific thing if you're stuck.

About walkthroughs: I like them for some games. Usually on my second playthrough, either in the "did you try?" way for adventure games, or as a strategic guide for some other types of games.
And sometimes if I'm stuck I want to be steered in the right direction, although without having the solution revealed to me directly.

I do agree that buying a game and the game guide at the same time, and playing it that way, or buying a gae and playing it with a walkthrough the first time, isn't something I'd get enjoyment from. It seems to defeat the point to me, might as well watch someone else play instead.
But if people want to do it that way, why not?

[Lena_P]

Wouldn't someone asking for hints in the hint forums indicate they aren't using a walk-through? If they were using one, they wouldn't need to ask for a hint. It also seems a little far-fetched to assume someone wants "instant" gratification because they ask for a hint. They could have been stuck for hours or days for all you know.

[Little Writer]

It's true that it's become easier to find solutions to puzzles online than in the old days. Back then the best you could do when you didn't have any gaming friends to consult, was order a hint book directly from the company. I must admit I've collected my share of those over the years

These games are plenty of fun, but sometimes you can get so stuck, far longer than the proposed five minutes. While I used to try my best to figure it out on my own (and I still do) sometimes time really is of the essence. We've all grown up and have lives to live. Gaming is still a huge part of who I am, but I don't have the luxury of being stuck for too long. I want to see what happens next and if I'm not smart enough to figure stuff out on my own, I no longer depend on the slim chance of accidentally stumbling onto the solution than is necessary. I'll consult a walkthrough, but I'll only read up to the point where my mind is triggered into figuring out the rest on its own.

[Falanca]

Originally Posted by Lena_P

Wouldn't someone asking for hints in the hint forums indicate they aren't using a walk-through? If they were using one, they wouldn't need to ask for a hint. It also seems a little far-fetched to assume someone wants "instant" gratification because they ask for a hint. They could have been stuck for hours or days for all you know.

You know what? I think Telltale is just too generous about hints and such. I mean... Why having a hints forum when you already have the walkthroughs of all games, or vice versa? It's not only that you let the developers play your own game, you actually choose if they should play your game using their hands or feet. And minus all the interesting things about it, because seeing the developers of the games playing their game with their feet would be so damn awesome.