The TMI plot explained in a nutshell

[jp-30]

Originally Posted by thehardmenpath

This is a great discovery. The Voodoo lady thing COULD REALLY BE the secret of Monkey Island.

The secret of Monkey Island was in that box on the thief's table. Pity it got destroyed by the sponge.

[Hayden]

All of this speculation of possible explanations is why I think there will definitely be a second season.

[CaptKevinKID]

Originally Posted by ATMachine

So working with the help of Kroms's bullet points, I have worked out what I think to be the Grand Backstory behind TMI. Master Plans and all are revealed here! SPOILERS AHEAD!

Ahem.

So some time before Narwhal, Guybrush gets the Cursed Cutlass of Kaflu recipe from the Voodoo Lady. (One of the dialogue options on first meeting her in Narwhal is "That cutlass recipe you gave me was a dud!" though Guybrush never says it out loud.)

However, this Cursed Cutlass would inevitably, when used, fail to kill LeChuck. Even if Guybrush hadn't tampered with the recipe, it would still fail because he isn't attacking LeChuck while he's crossing between worlds. This is intentional on the Voodoo Lady's part.

The Voodoo Lady desires to keep Guybrush and LeChuck eternally at each other's throats. By the end of Rise, she possesses Guybrush's poxed hand and an essence of LeChuck, which combined are enough to resurrect BOTH of them, if either should die, thus continuing the cycle infinitely. (Remi Olsen has pointed out that she was already seen shipping voodoo supplies to LeChuck in MI2!)

Elaine knows the cutlass of Kaflu is destined to fail, and that the Voodoo Lady is up to no good. She obviously dislikes the Voodoo Lady, as seen in episode 5, and the feeling is mutual. In the seagull scene in Rise, the Voodoo Lady calls Elaine a "loose cannon" who "does not trust in Voodoo." She's telling a half-truth in this last statement: Elaine does in fact trust Voodoo, just not the Voodoo Lady's voodoo.

So Elaine lets herself be captured by LeChuck (as she indicates while on his ship in Rise). She lets Guybrush use the cutlass on LeChuck, knowing full well it WON'T work, and hoping that Guybrush now realizes that the Voodoo Lady has been lying to him all along. He doesn't, of course.

Elaine further knows that to kill LeChuck requires the combined effort of two people, one in this plane and one standing in the Crossroads. She thinks Guybrush must enter that realm BODILY, like Odysseus descending to the world of the dead, and expects him to use his wedding ring as a "get out of Hell free" card. (Remember, you need to have a BODY to use physical objects like the ring!)

The La Esponja Grande quest is, in this scenario, mostly an afterthought, a quest taken up by Elaine and Guybrush in order to soak up the dangerous amounts of Voodoo released in their botched attempt to kill LeChuck. (Elaine knows the Cutlass won't work: she just doesn't know HOW it won't work. She can't predict the Pox of LeChuck or him becoming human, both of which she has to plan for on the fly.) The Voodoo Lady plays along with it, since she desires to gather up all that voodoo so it can be returned to LeChuck.

So LeChuck is turned human, and although Elaine knows he is still nasty and evil, she hopes to use him to get at the Voodoo Lady (via obtaining her diary). But she is thrown off her guard, and lulled into security, by the evil Voodoo of his belt buckle, and fails to adequately make plans for his eventual betrayal of them in Trial.

When Guybrush loses his hand to Morgan (and his wedding ring with it), Elaine supplies him with her ring instantly, knowing he'll need it for the spell.

At the end of Spinner Cay, Elaine stays with LeChuck in order to place the Monkeys of Montevideo in what she calls their "homes." Really, of course, this is the setup for LeChuck's spell to open the mortal world's gate to the Crossroads. Surely she knew this, even though she would never have TOLD LeChuck that she knew. Elaine probably planned to use this hole between worlds as the method by which Guybrush would cross over, allowing them together to defeat LeChuck. Guybrush's getting killed was not part of her agenda.

Elaine is blindsided by LeChuck killing Guybrush (which she WOULD have foreseen were it not for the demonic belt buckle). She didn't want Guybrush to enter the Crossroads by actually DYING.

Then once Guybrush returns as a ghost, LeChuck announces that the Cutlass of Kaflu is the only weapon that can kill him in the mortal world, and that he has enchanted it so that no mortal can touch it. Elaine is immediately seen going "Hmm!" Her next line after that is to LeChuck: "Make me your demon bride!" or some such.

Elaine obviously decides on the spot to become a demon, so as to get her hands on the Cutlass, and is counting on Guybrush (as she says in the very end of Rise) to restore her afterward, so she can kill LeChuck with the blade. (I guess she expects to keep holding onto it as a demon until she's exorcised!)

In other words, Elaine's master plan was never set in stone, but has had to change in numerous ways, due to unforeseen events. Such events included the Pox being released, or LeChuck surviving as a human, or Guybrush losing his hand, or LeChuck killing Guybrush (a major unforeseen event!), or LeChuck cursing the Cutlass to make it unusable by mortals.

When Guybrush is punted back into the Crossroads by LeChuck, Morgan shows up after an extended absence and stabs him with a new sword. Guybrush asks where she got it but she doesn't answer.

Answer: The Voodoo Lady gave Morgan the sword, in exchange for her retrieving LeChuck's essence after dispatching him. The Voodoo Lady wants to kill LeChuck for the moment, so that Guybrush will be lulled into a false sense of security and think LeChuck is finally truly dead. She knows, however, that if Morgan does her job right, she will soon have the Essence of LeChuck with which to revive the demon pirate at a later date.

LeChuck's plan, of course, is much simpler: Hypnotize the 13 Monkeys of Montevideo and place them at specified locations in the Caribbean, so as to reveal the physical location of the Crossroads in the mortal world, allowing him to crack it open, suck out its energy, and become the Demon Pirate God. Needless to say, his scheme fails until Guybrush unwittingly helps him out.

Comments?

EDIT: I forgot to add:

Elaine knows the Cutlass won't work in Narwhal: she just doesn't know HOW it won't work. She can't predict the release of the Pox of LeChuck or him becoming human, both of which she has to plan for on the fly.

EDIT 2: Also added:

At the end of Spinner Cay, Elaine stays with LeChuck in order to place the Monkeys of Montevideo in what she calls their "homes." Really, of course, this is the setup for LeChuck's spell to open the mortal world's gate to the Crossroads. Surely she knew this, even though she would never have TOLD LeChuck that she knew. Elaine probably planned to use this hole between worlds as the method by which Guybrush would cross over, allowing them together to defeat LeChuck. Guybrush's getting killed was not part of her agenda.

So very true it makes perfect sense.

What about at the beginning of the game when in the voodoo Lady's hut you see a chest, was that LeChuck's chest with the informass Belt buckle?

[brian.shapiro]

I think when people here try to imbue some kind of motives on the Voodoo lady they're making too much of things...

The Voodoo lady believes, according to everything we know, that there's some type of order to things in the world in which everyone plays a part and takes part in roles, fulfilling certain events---as we see in the cards--ie, Guybrush the Hero, Elaine the Lover, the pox is the Curse, etc.

She also doesn't think she can change these things, because everything is set in fate, so she doesn't try to. It's not that she's 'neutral' like people say, she just knows the limits of her own role, because she understands herself as part of a bigger picture. She does heavily help Guybrush in this game, and doesn't appear to help LeChuck, which shows she isn't necessarily neutral. Its not clear if she ever helped LeChuck at all, and remember she says to Guybrush something like 'goodness was never in his path', which means she believes LeChuck would have done evil no matter what.

However, she does play her own role in this scheme of things. She gives her guidance and advice to those who see her, good or evil. So whether its Guybrush who comes to see her or LeChuck, she gives the the best guidance she can give, and lets them make their own choices. If Guybrush comes to see her, she also knows she can rely on him and also help her gain Voodoo items. If LeChuck were ever to see her, she would know that he would make her life miserable, so would do whatever was necessary to deal with him and get him on his way. She would work with him, just to the degree that LeChuck would think that nothing is a problem and believe she's cooperating, so he would leave her alone.

People have mentioned the shipping crates to LeChuck in MI2. First you have to remember that the shipping crates ended up helping Guybrush go to his fortress and defeat him--so its not clear that the Voodoo lady was helping LeChuck--but may have been helping Guybrush. As far as it bears on any relationship with LeChuck---she may have agreed to ship those things to him to placate him and prevent him from bothering her--at the same time that she knew that the shipment would help Guybrush go to defeat him.

I think when the Voodoo lady says 'Elaine doesn't trust voodoo' it essentially means Elaine believes in free will, and not fate. She believes the Voodoo lady has choices and does things that ends up creating this cycle; empowering LeChuck only to have Guybrush destroy him later. That's completely opposed to the way the Voodoo lady thinks of things; she believes all of these things are fated.

[Kroms]

Guys, keep in mind that this theory heavily relies on the Voodoo Lady being closer to her SMI/MI2 personas than her CMI/EMI ones, where she was more helpful and just wary of LeChuck. She definitely has her own agenda. I wouldn't be surprised if it turned out she was the ultimate villain after all.

ATMachine, excellent work. I also ask for this topic to be stickied.

[gregowich]

Originally Posted by One-Eyed Kijin

As interesting as that story is, your version of events would require Elaine to have a vast knowledge of Voodoo magic, which I doubt she has. If she does know all about these voodoo spells, then Telltale should attempt to explain how she learned about them all without Guybrush noticing his wife's interest in the occult. Although Elaine always does have a plan, I have a hard time accepting that she was that well informed.

Yeah, I'm really surprised more people don't ask this. Even if it's true she gave the ring to Guybrush without entirely knowing the use it would be, still, how did she even have an idea about that? But then again, in the SMI for instance, Elaine has always had more idea about everything than Guybrush... So maybe she's always had a big amount of knowledge of voodoo, even before Guybrush met her. Or perhaps she has a connection with Voodoo Lady in some way, and there's actually another reason why she doesn't trust her.
And I do believe Voodoo Lady will bring LeChuck back from the Lechuck Juice, because I simply can't imagine a Monkey Island game without him!
And perhaps all these intrigues will eventually lead back onto Monkey Island again in the next season?

[Ignatius]

I dont know, i dont think Elaine know so much.

I think also the Cutlass was supposed to work. The Vodoo Lady is pretty mad when Guybrush failed to present her the esscence of LeChuck trapped in the cutlass (wich is at the end made by Morgan)

I also think that at the end Elaine is holding an uncharged Cutlass so its just like a normal sword and she cant kill Lechuck with just that. And even if it was charged he is a pirate god now, not the same Lechuck from the beggining, and that requieres a different and more complex way of killing him.

[Laserschwert]

Don't forget, in the beginning of "Tales", Elaine is held captive by LeChuck... who knows what he has told her about his plans and the Voodoo-workings of it?

[balin2k]

Originally Posted by Seepgood

Its laying on her desk/table in the post-credits scene, its only visible briefly.

oh yeah! just say it now. didnt notive it before.

hmm. i wonder if telltale will make another TMI season. i hope so. i wonder what the voodoo lady is planing.

[One-Eyed Kijin]

Originally Posted by Ignatius

I dont know, i dont think Elaine know so much.

I think also the Cutlass was supposed to work. The Vodoo Lady is pretty mad when Guybrush failed to present her the esscence of LeChuck trapped in the cutlass (wich is at the end made by Morgan)

I also think that at the end Elaine is holding an uncharged Cutlass so its just like a normal sword and she cant kill Lechuck with just that. And even if it was charged he is a pirate god now, not the same Lechuck from the beggining, and that requieres a different and more complex way of killing him.

Interesting point about the Cutlass. Maybe I'm going senile, but I seem to remember the Voodoo lady saying after she saw Guybrush for the first time that he needed to give her the Cutlass so Le Chuck could be purged. That seems to indicate that her goal was to obtain the Essence of Le Chuck, presumably so that she could continue the endless cycle of conflict.

Elaine seemed pretty certain in Episode 1 that the Cutlass would work, and seemed surprised when it failed, so she presumably she assumed that the cutlass would work. Even Le Chuck was baffled when he was transformed into a human.

It seems to me that the quest for Le Esponja Grande was set up by the Voodoo lady as a Plan B of sorts. Since the Cutlass failed, Le Chuck's essence had to be sucked into the sponge, although it is uncertain what her plan with the sponge was from that point on.

[ivan11111]

This is honestly a brilliant account of the thing. SO much goes unsaid about Elaine's motives, and while we see her succumbing to the pox and becoming the demon bride, we now see that she has a reason for the whole thing. I'd not thought of it in such clarity, so thanks. It's a great explanation and makes me just want to play the whole thing again to see if they laid any clues!

[ATMachine]

To those who say Elaine could never have known so much Voodoo: remember, there was a whole adventure that Guybrush and Elaine had, taking place right before TMI (what Dave Grossman jokingly called the "real" MI5 ). Maybe she learned about this stuff in the course of THAT.

Also keep in mind that episode 5, where we finally learn about most of this stuff, was the one which had the most input by Ron Gilbert. Plus, Elaine was the character whose treatment in TMI Ron gave the most advice about (I recall reading this in an interview somewhere).

TMI is clearly bringing back Magnificent Bastard Elaine from MI1. Remember in that game you've spent much of it trying to rescue her and putting together a voodoo recipe for defeating LeChuck. But when you finally confront him, not only has she already rescued herself and planted a decoy, she's also obtained a jar of ghost-destroying voodoo root beer on her own! Clearly she has some knowledge of this sort of thing already.

EDIT: this part was based on speculation I have since revised. Oops!

[pluizig]

Originally Posted by ATMachine

TMI is clearly bringing back Magnificent Bastard Elaine from MI1. Remember in that game you've spent much of it trying to rescue her and putting together a voodoo recipe for defeating LeChuck. But when you finally confront him, not only has she already rescued herself and planted a decoy, she's also obtained a jar of ghost-destroying voodoo root beer on her own! Clearly she has some knowledge of this sort of thing already.

That's not a magnificant bastard, that's a heroine who can take care of herself. In MI 1, Guybrush was on a fool's errand. If he never existed, Elaine would have made it out of her predicament just fine -maybe even better.

[Farlander]

Opening the Crossroads is why she went along with LeChuck's plan. And if she knew LeChuck could only be killed while crossing between worlds, she MUST have known that the Cutlass would not work when he wasn't doing so

Then in the name of what she would have tried to kill LeChuck in one world? (when Guybrush brings her back in human form) Just for kicks? No, she didn't know (she was told by Guybrush during the boss battle) LeChuck had to be trapped while crossing between worlds. More than that, I think LeChuck WASN'T supposed to be trapped between two worlds (more than than, he WASN'T supposed to find the gates to the Crossroads).

As far as I see it, a PROPERLY enchanced Cutlass of Kaflu should damage both body and spirit (no crossing between worlds needed). But Cutlass of Kaflu was far from properly enchanced (Guybrush with his last-second substitutes and LeChucks other doings), so it could only damage his body. The Voodoo Lady gave Morgan a sword which has Cutlass' of Kaflu missing function, but due to some... complications... (the Spirit sword being in one world, the Body sword in another), they had to strike at the same time, which is impossible while LeChuck is in one world, hence the trapping-inbetween-worlds stuff.

And I think that Elaine developed a distrust in Voodoo and Voodoo Lady in particular during ToMI, not before it. Maybe "Is THAT how the Cutlass is supposed to work?" was the beginning of this distrust.

[One-Eyed Kijin]

Originally Posted by ATMachine

To those who say Elaine could never have known so much Voodoo: remember, there was a whole adventure that Guybrush and Elaine had, taking place right before TMI (what Dave Grossman jokingly called the "real" MI5 ). Maybe she learned about this stuff in the course of THAT.

Also keep in mind that episode 5, where we finally learn about most of this stuff, was the one which had the most input by Ron Gilbert. Plus, Elaine was the character whose treatment in TMI Ron gave the most advice about (I recall reading this in an interview somewhere).

TMI is clearly bringing back Magnificent Bastard Elaine from MI1. Remember in that game you've spent much of it trying to rescue her and putting together a voodoo recipe for defeating LeChuck. But when you finally confront him, not only has she already rescued herself and planted a decoy, she's also obtained a jar of ghost-destroying voodoo root beer on her own! Clearly she has some knowledge of this sort of thing already.

Also, consider that Elaine giving the ring to Guybrush means she probably knows how he'll use it. And if she knows that, she surely expected him to enter the Crossroads (bodily, of course, so he could use the physical ring). Opening the Crossroads is why she went along with LeChuck's plan. And if she knew LeChuck could only be killed while crossing between worlds, she MUST have known that the Cutlass would not work when he wasn't doing so!

To say that Elaine learned a lot about Voodoo in between TMI and EMI is a cop out. If that were true, then it would have been mentioned at some point during the adventure. We can only assume that Elaine's knowledge of voodoo has not increased. Maybe TOMI season 2 will confirm that theory but we'll have to wait until then.

What does Ron Gilbert have to do with anything? Sure he gave some input into TOMI but it's not like his influence makes your theory any more valid. In terms of Elaine obtaining voodoo root beer, I think you forget that Guybrush finally destroys LeChuck at the end of Secret with plain root beer from the vending machine. She hardly needed advanced knowledge of voodoo to spray ghosts with normal root beer.

Elaine did not know that Le Chuck had to be killed in between worlds, Guybrush has to tell her. She clearly had little knowledge of what Le Chuck had planned. Elaine could have given the ring to Guybrush for many different reasons - maybe she gave the ring to Guybrush to trick Le Chuck into thinking that he was succeeding in slowly seducing her, which clearly was a goal of his from early on in the adventure. At the end of Episode 1, Elaine was looking disinterested, but immediately became happy when Le Chuck showed up. She clearly was acting in front of him. She was following along, and she may have thought that her ring was inconvenient. This theory is not likely, but it is about as plausible as your theory.

[ATMachine]

On further consideration, Kijin and farlander, you bring up excellent points! I have had to amend my theory based on this.

You both point out that Elaine herself shows surprise at the Cutlass's failure, that she tries herself to stab LeChuck with it in Rise, and that Guybrush has to tell her how to defeat him. Which means that Elaine DOES NOT know at first the Cutlass won't work, nor does she know that she has to open the Crossroads to kill him. (I was wrong on that bit.)

But Elaine obviously has come to despise the Voodoo Lady by Rise. She must have realized that the Voodoo Lady is up to no good at SOME point. Plus, she mentions in two scenes that the Esponja Grande quest with Nice Human LeChuck was all for Guybrush's benefit. Most likely, Elaine figured out that, once La Esponja Grande (which the Voodoo Lady had told Guybrush to obtain) had absorbed all the Pox, then LeChuck would simply steal the sponge and absorb its voodoo power. She knew that the Voodoo Lady must know this, too.

Elaine also gives Guybrush her ring. She knows it'll be important for something. But what? Even if she doesn't know Guybrush has to "cross over" to kill LeChuck, she probably DOES at least know that wedding rings would have major protective significance in voodoo spells, given the powerful love they embody. She wanted Guybrush to be magically safe should anything happen to him. As it indeed did.

EDIT: Hey guys, I updated the first post with this revised theory, so go have another look!

[BeeKay84]

Wow, I love how everything ATMachine posted makes perfect sense. Really, it does.

[Con]

Not trying to be smart or anything but...k so Elaine planned to kill Lechuck physically but she didn't know Morgan too was dead, eh? So she was counting in that Guybrush would kill LeChuck in 'the other side', right?
But what if Morgan had never went after Guybrush's hand in chapter 4 and still lived? That'd have left LeChuck vs. Guybrush alone in the afterlife. How Guybrush would have killed Lachuck? He was barely able to move as a zombo. I doubt Elaine expected him to kill Lechuck just like that. Or am I missing something essential?

[ATMachine]

Originally Posted by BeeKay84

Wow, I love how everything ATMachine posted makes perfect sense. Really, it does.

Which version? I revised my initial Theory of Everything in TMI to incorporate clues mentioned by other posters, at about the same time you posted this message. Sorry!

[Kroms]

The fact that Elaine's masterplan is finally set in stone when she realises she has to become a demon - that she trusts Guybrush to pull her out of it and save her - makes her somehow even more awesome than she was. Props to the writers.

Revised version is pretty good. Can't see many flaws in it.