A discussion of software piracy

[Guybrush_Threepwood]

Maybe Telltale should start considering to make out of games 2 different files: a small sized one for the demo version, and the complete one to be given through a link just to the ones who have already bought the game.
Since everyone on this forum loves and supports Telltale, it'd be very hard that one of us lets the complete game available for P2P and, more generally, file sharing programs.
Doing this, piracy against their games can be at least slowed down, probably not defeated (that's just impossible).
If they don't have the whole game, they can't crack it up.
What do you think?

[Yohmi]

I think that rapidhsare provide free downloads for less than 100MB files. In fact, if you want something, you can have it. As I can have every Bone episode free, I can also have Sam&max free... I can donwload it from the mainsite, but also on P2P or many other locations. If you want something free, you can have it. Lots of people pirating won't buy anything. If they can't obtain it, they forget and donwload something else. I know this with music, sometime I let people hear songs on my iPod "sounds great, could you give it to me ?" "nop, it's under DRM, you must buy it, it's less than 1€" "Nonsense, I'll download it on ——— ". Then, he doesn't find the file... nevermind, he forget. Just 1€ (≈1$). Less than a subway ticket, less than 1/5 of a beer at the pub. Just because it costs something, it's too expansive, that's all... sad, yes it is...

In jokes would be great however

[Maratanos]

See, I'd like to emphasize something elsenator said...

We tend to equal each illegal download as one lost sale, but i don't believe that is the case.

This is very true. The book Free Culture, as I recall, lists at least three (maybe four, but I only remember three of them) reasons people illegally "pirate" software. In fact, only one of them is strictly detrimental.

1. People download a piece of software INSTEAD of buying it. This is bad, beacuse it deprives the developer of money.
2. People download a piece of software, but wouldn't have bought it if they couldn't have downloaded it. It is neutral, because downloading hasn't deprived the developer of anything, because they wouldn't have bought it if they couldn't have gotten it free.
3. People download a piece of software, to try it out. They like it, and then buy it. This is good, because they wouldn't have bought it unless they knew they'd like it, which they determined via downloading it.

However, it must be emphasized that ALL THREE are illegal. No ifs, ands, or buts. All three are always illegal.

[elsenator]

Originally Posted by Maratanos

See, I'd like to emphasize something elsenator said...



This is very true. The book Free Culture, as I recall, lists at least three (maybe four, but I only remember three of them) reasons people illegally "pirate" software. In fact, only one of them is strictly detrimental.

1. People download a piece of software INSTEAD of buying it. This is bad, beacuse it deprives the developer of money.
2. People download a piece of software, but wouldn't have bought it if they couldn't have downloaded it. It is neutral, because downloading hasn't deprived the developer of anything, because they wouldn't have bought it if they couldn't have gotten it free.
3. People download a piece of software, to try it out. They like it, and then buy it. This is good, because they wouldn't have bought it unless they knew they'd like it, which they determined via downloading it.

However, it must be emphasized that ALL THREE are illegal. No ifs, ands, or buts. All three are always illegal.

This is exactly what i mean. And it is very true!

[Emily]

It's true that not every person who pirates the game would necessarily have bought it (even for the paltry price of $8.95). That said, in tracking down pirated copies, I have seen posts from people along the lines of "Thanks for the crack! I've been waiting 13 years for this!" That's what makes me sad... the fact that some people pirating the game have been looking forward to a Sam & Max sequel for all this time, yet supporting the developers doesn't even cross their minds.

We have a wonderful extended community, and the number of people who have bought the game far outweigh cases like this, so it's not exactly something that keeps me up at night. But it is a disappointing attitude.

This is nothing new. I remember Al Lowe saying that Sierra sold far more Leisure Suit Larry hint books than Leisure Suit Larry games. (Hell, my own introduction to adventure gaming was through a bootlegged copy of LSL that my dad brought home from work. ) Some people will learn about Telltale and may even become paying customers *because* of the piracy, backwards as that sounds.

[elsenator]

Originally Posted by Emily

It's true that not every person who pirates the game would necessarily have bought it (even for the paltry price of $8.95). That said, in tracking down pirated copies, I have seen posts from people along the lines of "Thanks for the crack! I've been waiting 13 years for this!" That's what makes me sad... the fact that some people pirating the game have been looking forward to a Sam & Max sequel for all this time, yet supporting the developers doesn't even cross their minds.

Yes, and this is indeed the sad truth of group number 1. The fact that they don't even consider buying it, and instead see piracy as the main way of obtaining it puzzles me quite a bit. It also goes to show that copy protection fails miserably.
For a copy protection to work, it would have to be something low level as the StarForce protection which, quite frankly, is so annoying that, to some degree, consumers would prefer a cracked version(which is possible, although harder). That's bad - very bad...

I hope future games will grasp the beauty of online distribution and keep copy protection at a minimum, thus keeping the average consumer from copying it to everyone else. The way it is with Sam & Max is perfect, and to me, another reason to buy the game. If it's as easy as grabbing the visa in your wallet, a lot more will be buying it. At least that is my belief.

Of course, reality is soooo much more complicated.

[Udvarnoky]

Originally Posted by Guybrush_Threepwood

Maybe Telltale should start considering to make out of games 2 different files: a small sized one for the demo version, and the complete one to be given through a link just to the ones who have already bought the game.
Since everyone on this forum loves and supports Telltale, it'd be very hard that one of us lets the complete game available for P2P and, more generally, file sharing programs.
Doing this, piracy against their games can be at least slowed down, probably not defeated (that's just impossible).
If they don't have the whole game, they can't crack it up.
What do you think?

I don't see the improvement of that method. Once that file gets leaked (and no, it would not be hard) you're in the same boat you are with the current method, except pirates have to go through no trouble instead of a little trouble.

[Pide]

I bought Sam&Max at this page. At my first visit Paypal did not work so i thought i would not be able to purchase it. Just checked again today and paypal was enabled . The game is great and as soon as i have money i will buy the whole season (upgrade version when avalaible). I cannot say that i never pirated a game, but i always buy them if i like them. Because S&M was only 8€ and i liked the demo i got it.

I have to say that i prefer buying games from companies/developers like Telltale, which care for their community and are reading the forums to improve the next episodes or just talk about senseless things . *cough*EA*cough*

[VastGirth]

ok i will be honest, i reguarly pirate software. However i always buy games which i think are worth it, such as gothic 3, oblivion, and of course sam and max! Afterall ive been waiting for years for this game of course im going to buy it. (or in this case, pre-order the entire series) You have to support the developers if you want to see more games!

Anyway the point of this post is that the game wasn't actually successfully cracked until the 10th of November, 9 days after the official release and many days after the gametap one. This is VERY late for a cracked release and i imagine will have helped sales of the game a lot.

Why this was, i don't know. maybe the copy protection is good, or perhaps sam and max holds such a special place in the hearts of gamers that the faster crackers didn't crack it...

Anyway i hope it sells loads and leaves a very bitter taste in lucasarts' mouth!

[Jokieman]

The really sad part is that because of the greed of the music industry, the pirating of software/music etc, has become more mainstream than ever before.

In fact I was reading in some audiophile forums I visit regularly that a whole host of people who would never have considered it before have vowed to only purchase used music cd's and or download mp3's illegally from now on because of how Microsoft caved in and signed a deal with Universal Music to pay them $1.00 for every Zune sold. Of course it could have had something to do with the fact that the CEO of Universal Music called everyone who owns a Digital Audio Player a thief who uses their players for the storage of illegally obtained music. heh.

It's sort of sad really. There are a lot of young people out there today that truly don't believe file sharing is illegal at all. heh. That's how bad it's gotten.

Note to Vastgirth: The reason why it took so long for S&M to be cracked is because adventure games aren't that popular, even among software pirates.

Note to Guybrush: There is nothing that a company like Telltale games can do to stop piracy. Microsoft has spent hundreds of millions of dollars developing anti-piracy techniques over the last decade and still hasn't been able to stop it. (Though I think it's crazy stupid for anyone to use a pirated copy of an OS, I guess there's some really crazy stupid people out there). The only thing that can be done to stop it is to account for it in the basic business model.

Though I tend to think that when you are selling boxed copies of games especially, including special stuff like concept art, or something like the little "manny" you got with Grim Fandango will help to limit it as well.

[taumel]

Most of the game goodies you find in the game packages (if there are some at all) are crap and you hope they would have saved the ressources for more meaningful stuff in the world but things like the codewheel in Monkey Island or the Newspaper in ZakMcKracken were great! Digital distribution also has it's pros but i sometimes miss such love to such details and it made some people buying an original who otherwise wouldn't have done it.


Regards,

taumel

[kendals]

Originally Posted by Emily

Some people will learn about Telltale and may even become paying customers *because* of the piracy, backwards as that sounds.

I spose that worked for Microsoft. Shame there's a cracked version. I'm very disappointed with these people- it's $9 people! Isn't that what a movie costs these days? And you get about double the movie length, and at least it's not mind-numbing!

[Maize]

Originally Posted by Hero1

The people that are downloading illegal copies and not buying the game are having a detrimental effect on the future of Sam & Max. If we want games like Sam & Max to exist we have to support a company like Telltale.

I'm not sure that I think that the morality of pirating software is necessarily tied to the size of the company or the nature of the software in an absolute sense, but I agree that people who love adventure gaming should go the extra mile to support the companies who are still making the games. If the bigger companies saw that adventure games could really sell, there'd be a lot more of them out there.

Personally, I bought Bone 1 & 2 even though I have very little interest in the franchise just to support the company I knew was going to be putting out the Sam & Max games. (And obviously I subscribed to the Sam & Max season.)

The seasonal subscription rate is ridiculously inexpensive. I mean, you wind up paying something around six bucks per game. There are drinks at Starbucks that cost that much, and an episode of Sam & Max last a lot longer than a green tea latte with whipped cream.

(Mmmm.... green tea latte with whipped cream...)

[Emily]

an episode of Sam & Max last a lot longer than a green tea latte with whipped cream.

Heh. I want to use this quote in our marketing materials.

[RMJ1984]

Im pretty sure most people are buying sam & max because of the cheap price, but then again most people who pirate wouldn buy it anyways even if there wasnt a pirat version..

Most games released lately are so bad its a waste of time even to download them free, because they are so crappy. Also most companies dont release demo's after the fullversion or never at all. And that will only promote piratcy. Because i would openly admit i download most games than dont have a demo pirated to try em out. I dont wanna waste money on shitty games :P

Also no copy protection or warning, fines or messages will make anyone feel bad, guilty or anything. Its a waste of time and money for the company. Rather lower the price on the game and increase the quality

Personally i always support good games And Sax & max is one of them ( but i still dont like episodic games )

[IronCladChicken]

Originally Posted by RMJ1984

Rather lower the price on the game and increase the quality

How would you do that? - It would take more time to raise the quality, which would cost TellTale more money, which they would need to get back if they wanted to remain in business (& make more games), so the cost of the individual title would need to go up?

I'm guessing you’re still in School right?

[Maize]

Originally Posted by Emily

Heh. I want to use this quote in our marketing materials.

Feel free! (Of course, even better if you fix my typo in it. )

[Maize]

From an environmental perspective, I love the idea of downloadable games. Even for store-bought games, I think that less is more: I wish more PC/Mac games were available in just a jewel case with the instruction book as the insert. It always makes me feel a little evil when I buy a product that comes with huge wads of packaging seven ways from sunday and ultimately just has a CD inside the box.

On the other hand, I agree that the nifty trinkets you got in some old-skool games were pretty nice and enhanced the feel of immersion of the game. Here I'm mostly thinking about the old Infocom games. If anything was a good argument against piracy, it was having those physical objects that really became part of the game experience. When I was young and just starting out playing games on my Vic-20 and Apple II, I pirated pretty much everything. The first *bought* game that I had was an Infocom game, and I bought it because of all the neat stuff in the box and how much that enhanced the game. The next bought game I got was Ultima IV, which also came with a lot of cool game-enhancing stuff (that metal ankh, the cloth map, etc.).

It's a bit of an internal war within me on that point: Ultimately I want to add as little junk to the landfills as possible, but on the other hand, I love feeling that connection with the game I'm playing.

[Vesh]

*sniff* Infocom trinket-swag. I do miss it. I still have my peril-sensitive sunglasses and various marketing materials from our friends at Frobozz. But I do still have them (inside their boxes, too), they're not 10 meters under the shaky foundation of a parking garage.

[Sanitariumer]

Originally Posted by Jokieman

I think it's crazy stupid for anyone to use a pirated copy...

I guess, all these unfortunate people living on a few cents per hour in 3rd world countries are criminals because they can't afford legit software.

There is no DRM schema in this world, which will stop piracy, simply because the problem is not within the pirates, but with the software industry's fundamentally flawed business model (which, by the way, assumes zero-day piracy).

DRM is not here to curb the piracy. It's here to maximize the paying potential from a small group of users, who are technically challenged and don't know how to obtain and install cracked software. Guess what, most gamers don't fall in this category by far, especially adventure gamers. So all this DRM effort is laughable at best.

The real breakthrough will come when the business geniuses pushing DRM realize that it does little to change the ratio between those who pay and those who pirate. Once they start researching the needs of this second group, they will realize that there is actually a virgin market, much larger than the existing one, waiting to be saturated. (Nobel prize anyone?)