Proper British Grammar, segue to Harry Potter

[Avistew]

Wow, we got so off-topic that it was split into a new thread! Considering most threads are off-topic and don't get that honour...
It's gloating time!

[nikasaur]

This went like, record-time off topic. 4th post and people are all HARRY POTTER!

[GinnyN]

Originally Posted by nikasaur

I love you guys.


...and I'm totally splitting this off into a different topic.

Have you trying to split the Sam and Max 2010 thread by any chance?

[S@bre]

Wait, they localise (note the "s", not "z" you heathen colonials! ) books to American English in the US? Isn't that a tremendous waste of money and time just to placate a few Alabama rednecks who are probably mostly illiterate anyway? Surely the sheer majority of the American population are able to cope with a few extra "u"s here and there. They don't bother localising American English books to normal English over here, there's no point.

And for the record, I can't stand Harry Potter. Unoriginal derivative rubbish. Though I will acknowledge its always beneficial effect of getting children reading.

[[TTG] Yare]

Hey! I'm reading through the Harry Potter septology right now, as it happens. Just finished book 5 last night.

[Remolay]

I agree, no point. but apparently they don't localise all of them here. (by the way, my computer spellcheck SVCKS!) For Example: Hitchhikers Guide, all of them are proper British English. American English came from morons who didn't know how to spell.

[[TTG] Yare]

Originally Posted by S@bre

Isn't that a tremendous waste of money and time just to placate a few Alabama rednecks who are probably mostly illiterate anyway?

Literally nobody in America has a problem distinguishing between -or/-our and -ize/-ise. I don't know why they bother localizing those things, but it's not to aid comprehension.

Also most of us know how to read "gaol"!

[Rather Dashing]

Originally Posted by S@bre

They don't bother localising American English books to normal English over here, there's no point.

*Ahem*

[[TTG] Yare]

Originally Posted by Remolay

American English came from morons who didn't know how to spell.

Language is a tool that exists to facilitate communication; it changes and evolves with time. As arbitrary constructs, no language can be said to be objectively better than another until you define a metric with which to measure them. Many languages are fabricated because they excel at a specific thing, for example. Sign language, programming languages, and so on.

[Avistew]

Originally Posted by S@bre

Wait, they localise (note the "s", not "z" you heathen colonials! ) books to American English in the US?

I don't think so. From what I've read (yes, I researched it since earlier today) it's not quite like that. The spelling is kept in Harry Potter for instance (I think. they don't actually say whether it is or not so I assumed it meant it was. I mean otherwise they would have specified, right?) and many British expressions are, but things like "jumper", which means sweater in British English but is a type of dress in American English, and therefore confusing, was replaced with "sweater".
Apart from "Philosopher" becoming "Sorcerer", the changes seem to be in that vein, fairly small and still keeping the British feel to the story while removing things that would get confusing.
Of course, I'd have to read it and compare but I'm not about to re-buy all the books just for that, and the copies I could borrow from libraries here would all be British.

Language is a tool that exists to facilitate communication; it changes and evolves with time. As arbitrary constructs, no language can be said to be objectively better than another until you define a metric with which to measure them.

I wouldn't phrase it that way but that's how I stand to. While I prefer British spellings because I'm used to them, American spellings can't really be considered inferior any more than you can say "British English is inferior because they just copied French spelling without any regard to pronunciation". American English just made it more logically spelt according to the way it is pronounced, which is perfectly fine. No reason to complicate things, since language is a tool and therefore made to simplify communication, not complicate it.

[Remolay]

so... we sounded it out to get our english?

[Avistew]

Not sure exactly how and when that happened, but spelling evolves. I could talk about the 1990 French spelling reform but I fear not many people would be able to relate. The point is that things aren't written the same way they used to be. It's always hard when it changes and you were used to the old way, but language evolving is a good thing since the rest (culture, politics, items to name) change too.
I think the thing with English is that it's more "to the people". It just changes, like that. As a result, it changed in the US but not elsewhere.
Compare with France, that has everything standardised with some kind of international spelling committee or whatever so the reforms are applied in every French-speaking country at once. And the Académie Française which only write a few letters of their dictionary a year, which results in new words appearing much less often. So French changes less and when it does, the changes are applied everywhere.
(Not that there aren't differences in words and expressions. Just not in spelling).

Going back to English, Canadian English is for instance closer to French, due to being spoken in a bilingual country. I don't think I've heard people from other English-speaking country call napkins "serviettes" for instance. But it's also close to the US while being part of the Commonwealth, which gives it influences from both spellings, leading to things like "Tire Centre".

As long as you understand each other, that's all that matters though. just keep in mind that there is no "right" spelling between the American or British one. Just because one of them was "there first" doesn't mean it's right, or we're all spelling things wrongs since other spellings were there first.

[[TTG] Yare]

Originally Posted by avistew

As long as you understand each other, that's all that matters though.

True words.

[Remolay]

you know, the one word that I found the pronunciation changed instead of spelling is Macabre, where I'm pretty sure we vocally remove the "re".

correct me if I'm wrong and it is supposed to be pronounced that way

[Chyron8472]

Wow, you threw me off for a while, nik... splitting the thread like that.


EDIT: Okay, umm...

1) Why DID they change the name to Sorcerer's Stone?

2) It's true that while reading Harry Potter books 6 and 7, I had to look up British slang more than once.
(e.g. "[...] take the mickey out of him," and "He has, to use the common phrase, 'done a bunk.'")

3) And most importantly, at least American's drive on the correct side of the road.

[Avistew]

Originally Posted by Remolay

you know, the one word that I found the pronunciation changed instead of spelling is Macabre, where I'm pretty sure we vocally remove the "re".

correct me if I'm wrong and it is supposed to be pronounced that way

According to Wikipedia:

Macabre (pronounced "mak-kahb", IPA: /məˈkɑːb/ - American English; IPA: /məˈkɑːbrə/ - British English; IPA: /ma.kabʁ/ - original French pronunciation )

So, American English, compared with British English, removed the "re", indeed. However that makes the word 2 syllables long, same as in French.

The funny thing is I thought "macabre" was pronounced "mak-kah-ber".

[Remolay]

Yeah, I sounded it out and got it almost right,

My thought was Mah-kah-bra. so I was close, the Schwa changes it just so slightly

[Chyron8472]

*ahem*...

Dear, Strong Bad!
Here is some little questions:
1. Has you some time play football?
2. How did you seen out when you was a
baby?
3. How did you think you came's to
seen out when you are wery old?

Viklas
Sweden

----

STRONG BAD: Oh really? {holding back laughter} Never would have guessed you weren't from around here. Lessee here, what's the best way to answer this one...

{begins typing, with subtitles included. Synthesized European music starts playing.}

STRONG BAD: For Viklas. Hi? {Sup, Viklas?}

1. Prehaps! I'm've was to make football often times. {I love football. It's the best.} Play? Know. {Oh wait, are you asking about soccer?} Best football results twice again. {I hate soccer. It's the worst.}

2. Every age I have seen out as a baby. {I was one hot baby.} I think I has the solution: {All the girl babies were like...} width times height. {"check out that hot baby."}

3. As a wery old, I can fathom the scene to be with me. {I didn't know what you were talking about here.} Looking always as I ever did. {Hey, send me some of those Swedish fish.} It was not came's. {Ooh! And Swedish meatballs!} He borrowed mine. {That would be awesome.}

{music stops}

STRONG BAD: Okay, Viklas, I hope that answers your questions. I think we're on the same page. Unfortunately, yours has a big F on it.

—Stark Dålig

[Friar]

Originally Posted by Remolay

I agree, no point. but apparently they don't localise all of them here. (by the way, my computer spellcheck SVCKS!) For Example: Hitchhikers Guide, all of them are proper British English. American English came from morons who didn't know how to spell.

I think thats a tad harsh. British English is different from the english that was used in colonial times. In fact, if they were too hear our language today, they would claim we have ruined it (much like the claims with US english, or Txting)! US english and Modern UK english simply evolved along different paths. Neither are really all that closer to 'proper' english than eachother.

Also, what thread did this used to be from? The first post confused me!

[Jen Kollic]

I want to know what you Yankees are doing with all the extra 'U's that you strip out of words over there. Something nefarious no doubt!

Also, I find it amusing that I write British English, but it gets proof-read by an American. Lawl.