Bought Tales for the Mac, unfortunately not pleased

[jrodman]

The short version: I don't like adventure games.

Warning, spoilery, but you've probably all finished the game by now.

The long version: I have generally enjoyed the story elements and exploration of adventure games, but often found myself getting stuck far too frequently to really enjoy the ride. I'll play the game for an hour or two, and then be stuck, and the enjoyment just turns to annoyance.

I got the demo from the website, and it seemed extremely approachable, so decided to purachase the whole set. Things started well, with smooth fun sailing from the start of the game until the three piratey achievements were satisfied. Then things started to go off the rails:

After I talked to deep gut, I was kind of unsure where to go or what to do next. I wandered around at random, and managed to encounter and solve the Doctor experience, collect the cheese, and get the manatee vision. But I was unable to find anything to do with these things. For whatever reason, the glassblower had been so thoroughly unehlpful in the past, it didn't occur to talk to him, and I made no progress at all until I went and started reading your walkthrough.

Other problems happened after that:

- I couldn't make heads or tails of some of the wind-direction following actions in the maze. I was doing it right (I only knew by reading walkthroughs after repeated failures) and could only get through the sections by very very slow trial and error. In the second wind-follow location, the game was clearly bugging out with the arrow jumping all over the place.
- It wasn't at all clear to me that the face that dropped off the gate was an item I could pick up.
- I'd tried to put the windlass whatever thing into the top of so many statue-things that by the time I was supposed to do it I no longer believed it was the right thing to do.
- Pressing the cheese into the eyes would never have occurred to me in a million years. I was busy trying to add items to the cheese or carve markings into it with items in my inventory.
- By the time I had the final showdown with the doctor, I wasn't even trying anymore, I just went to the walkthrough to get the answer.

Much of this would be addressable by:

- Making it easier to discover what is an item in game. Hunting for clickables isn't really that fun. I tried the F4 feature, but it never worked. Is this a joke from windows people? (alt-F4?) I pressed it many times on the mac and never got a result. How about a mode where everything interactable is always outlined, even if it's not game-advancing, for those who don't enjoy hunting for things.

- Improving the hint system. When I have no idea where to go to advance and there's only one possible place in the game, simply walking from area to area clicking on everything isn't fun, for me. It's just a nuisance. If guybrush says "i should probably get some more items", that doesn't really help me. I usually figured that out by the point he says it, but reviewing the entire world until I get another item isn't fun for me. I should be able to say "more specific hint, please". Once I have to resort to the walkthrough, the fun just kind of falls apart.

Additionally, I had traverse the maze several unnecessary times (mazes are annoying!) before it was apparent I could just click on the picture of the island. Labelling the targettable destinations preemptively would have saved a lot of trouble.

I played through the second episode as well, but my heart wasn't really in it, and I mostly just used a walkthrough.

Some of the low points:

- In the opening, I never considered the cable as an interactable item. Stuck from the very opening, in a looping sequence.
- Making the replacement artifact made no sense at all .. one way it cools, the other it doesn't? what?
- Another maze
- Again I missed a crucial item, this time the heat control. I walked over the game world twice while not spotting it, until I asked the walkthrough.
- A lot of fuss made about the tree logs (which guybrush walks around inordinately slowly when you try to do things with them) which never were any use at all.
- In no way did it make sense that the pirates buried the treasure on another island. They clearly take your raft to do it, which the game doesn't present as a valid means of leaving the local island group. I spent a long time trying to find it locally before again consulting the walkthrough.

Again, focused hint system or more playtesting on the clueing would have made this a vastly better game.

Maybe I'm just terrible at adventure games. I'm perfectly willing to accept that. I've talked about them with various peers of mine (same age group, overlapping background etc) and most of them love them and I have not.

However, I had the perception this was trying to be more accessible, and I think it was just not successful at all. The same problems the genre has always had are present here. Unless you enjoy wandering around the zones re-checking stuff multiple times, you're likely to have significant dead time. And when you feel stuck, the only options are to pretty much "tough it out" or read a walkthrough which often causes you to miss the point -- you don't experience the connections and what leads to your conclusion that is one of the joys of the experience when it's working.

I would highly recommend it to any classic adventure game fan. I would not recommend it to anyone who doesn't already claim to enjoy classic adventure games.

[Avistew]

Is it the only chapter you've played? It's the one I enjoyed least.

Also, what hint setting where you set as? A higher one might help you enjoy the game more.

[Giant Tope]

Originally Posted by jrodman

The short version: I don't like adventure games.

I'm legitimately curious as to why you bought this game.

[doodinthemood]

The one thing that stuck out for me in this was the fact you didn't think the thing that fell off the door was a gettable item. I (and likely everyone else on here) will have seen that fall off and instantly thought "I'm going to pick up whatever that was, even if it kills me."
The other major difference which seems to be present is how we both treat the inevitable situation of being stuck. A lot of people on here are happy to explore the setting when they're stuck. I go one step further and say that getting stuck, for me, is actually pretty awesome. It allows you to see all that the setting has to offer, find all the little hidden jokes and dialogue (which a good adventure company makes sure to flood its game with), and, ultimately, be playing the game for longer. I see getting stuck as increasing gameplay, you seem to see it as preventing gameplay.
It is these two points that are a recipe for disaster. They make consulting a walkthrough almost inevitable. That cannot be very enjoyable for you, but I'm not totally sure gamers of your type make up a significant proportion of the audience in order for telltale to change its formula.
One idea you had, which I thought was nice, was the "more specific clue please" option for people on maximum hint setting. By only having it available for maximum hinters, it means that only players similar to you will be affected, and if it's what you guys want, then that cannot be a bad idea.

[Hassat Hunter]

Well, I can sum it up easily; You are really not for adventure games. You suck at them, and dislike them. That raises the question; why play them?

I, for one, like adventure games, even if I suck tremendously at them. However ToMI is so easy, that even an adventure loser such as myself only needed a walkthrough once the entire season at the highest possible difficulty. ToMI is just *that* easy.
But if that's still *far* too much, you should really consider another genre to play.

PS. Apparently the "F4" (is it F4? I never knew what button it was) is only for graphic levels 4 and up...

[doodinthemood]

I wouldn't say the OP shouldn't play adventure games. He's said that he likes the story and interraction. Few other genres offer those two elements as the basis of their gameplay, so an adventure game is what they're after. They just need a bit of training up of their adventure-game-eye, and maybe play a few easier adventure games first. I don't know what games these would be though.

[Hassat Hunter]

I would say: RPG's.
They feature story and interaction, without most of the puzzle elelements.
That would probably make the perfect genre for the OP.

They just need a bit of training up of their adventure-game-eye, and maybe play a few easier adventure games first.

But considering the critisim mentioned on ToMI I doubt (s)he will enjoy other adventures at all, so why suggest them if all that will do is cause more irritation than fun?

[Giant Tope]

I'd say finish the season, then see how you feel then.

[doodinthemood]

Originally Posted by Hassat Hunter

I would say: RPG's.
They feature story and interaction, without most of the puzzle elelements.
That would probably make the perfect genre for the OP.

But considering the critisim mentioned on ToMI I doubt (s)he will enjoy other adventures at all, so why suggest them if all that will do is cause more irritation than fun?

True about RPGs. They might be the way forward, I dunno.

About easier adventure games, not all of TMI cause irritation rather than fun. The OP said they enjoyed it up until the end of the 3 quests. If there is a game which is about that level of ease all the way through, then that'd be grand.

[Hassat Hunter]

Originally Posted by doodinthemood

The OP said they enjoyed it up until the end of the 3 quests. If there is a game which is about that level of ease all the way through, then that'd be grand.

Heh... that's the only place in the season *I* got stuck and needed a walkthrough .
Odd how that works...

[OzzieMonkey]

Originally Posted by Hassat Hunter

Well, I can sum it up easily; You are really not for adventure games. You suck at them, and dislike them. That raises the question; why play them?

I, for one, like adventure games, even if I suck tremendously at them. However ToMI is so easy, that even an adventure loser such as myself only needed a walkthrough once the entire season at the highest possible difficulty. ToMI is just *that* easy.
But if that's still *far* too much, you should really consider another genre to play.

PS. Apparently the "F4" (is it F4? I never knew what button it was) is only for graphic levels 4 and up...

Well, I thought it was for graphic level 7 and up.

[Avistew]

Wait, his hints were on high and he still was stuck? uh. I missed that part for some reason.

Personally, I have to say that if you hate adventure games, it's probably a bad idea to play them. Telltale games are better than most considering what you dislike about adventure games, since they're easier even on the "no hints" setting.
But if you get stuck with maximal hints I really think the genre isn't for you. I'm sorry.

[Admonisher]

Hi, jrodman. Welcome to the wonderful world of Adventure Gaming! Hopefully, you'll be persuaded to stick around. A few things that might help:

1. As mentioned earlier in this thread, the hint system can be adjusted to be more specific. Make sure you've tried that.

2. The UHS (Universal Hint System) website is a godsend for people who get stuck, but just want a nudge in the right direction without too much of the experience being spoiled. Not every adventure game is covered, but most are -- especially high-profile ones like ToMI. Visit this page here:

http://www.uhs-hints.com/uhsweb/tales-mi.php

It might not be EXACTLY what you want (some hint authors are better clue-givers than others), but it's still a sight better than your typical walkthrough.

3. You mentioned two things: something fell, and it didn't occur to you that you could pick it up; and you didn't go back and talk to a guy because it hadn't been helpful in the past. It can be frustrating to learn that you were wrong on these counts, but hey -- those are lessons you don't have to learn again: (1) Try to pick up everything that's not nailed down, and (2) Converse with people again once events have happened or circumstances have changed. Your expectations are adjusted now, and perhaps that'll mean you enjoy the game more.

4. Don't judge the whole game by the first chapter! In my opinion, the next three chapters just keep getting stronger. (The final chapter was, I thought, still quite strong -- but apart from the story aspect, I can't say it was better-designed -- adventure game-wise -- than the two chapters preceding it. I do think it's stronger than the first two chapters.)

Let us know how it turns out!

[GuruGuru214]

Originally Posted by OzzieMonkey

Well, I thought it was for graphic level 7 and up.

I have yet to hear of anyone on here who can run the game on anything higher than graphic level 3.

[Scrawffler]

If you're not too keen on adventures games then it's no wonder you didn't enjoy it, as it is quite a traditional adventure games. As I have loved adventure games for a long time I enjoyed the game, but I think you made a fair comment with your recommendations; it probably is going to be appreciated far more by those who are already into adventure games.

If you're tempted to play adventure games in the future, I second Admonisher's suggestion to definitely check out uhs-hints.com. It might just be what you're looking for!

Adventure games are about picking up everything you possibly can, talking to everyone and having all possible conversations, exploring every location and running your mouse across the screen for every hotspot, thinking about how what you've found may be able to help you with another puzzle, and generally thinking outside the box. If you don't play them much or are new to the genre, they can be quite overwhelming at first!

Anyway, it was cool of you to give it a go even if it's not your usual thing. Sorry you didn't enjoy it. Like Hassat mentioned, you sound like you might be an RPG person.

[elzbenz]

The entire point of adventure games is to experiment and click on everything... If you don't find that enjoyable then you really have bought the wrong game, particually since TOMI is the easiest adventure game I have ever played.

But play the whole season using a walkthrough... (that's what I did whith MY first point and click adventure game- The secret of monkey island)

After playing adventure games with walkthroughs a few times, they become enjoyable, as you know most of the puzzle structure reused in most adventure games.

Then, you can become sucked into the game world and enjoy the story and humour.

[corruptbiggins]

Originally Posted by GuruGuru214

I have yet to hear of anyone on here who can run the game on anything higher than graphic level 3.

just for you then, I'll tell you I can run it at level 9 in 1440 x 900 resolution.

[Bagge]

Originally Posted by corruptbiggins

just for you then, I'll tell you I can run it at level 9 in 1440 x 900 resolution.

level 9 at 1680 x 1050 here

[Ash735]

Originally Posted by GuruGuru214

I have yet to hear of anyone on here who can run the game on anything higher than graphic level 3.

Level 9 at 1280x1024

[GuruGuru214]

You three make me so sad.