Boobs: an artistic discussion

[Ash735]

I'm just happy because if there is one thing I never thought I'd see discussed here, it's the physics of Boobs!

[DoctorCello]

Originally Posted by Secret Fawful

High-Res Image

Hope I wasn't late to the constructive criticism party! I just wanted to mention a few things that haven't been brought up yet.

• It looks like Elaine just went out naked and painted her top on. Even if she was supposed to be wearing a super-tight shirt (which she shouldn't be), the shirt still wouldn't be clinging to the skin like that. Take a lot at this photo of Hilary Duff with a tight babydoll:
  
  
  
  See what's happening to the fabric in-between the breasts; it's not clinging, but rather it's just stretching from boob-to-boob. With the exception of spandex and other dance/fitness knits, no fabric can cling to every inch of a woman's rack, especially if she's got a large one. This is true even when she's got cleavage like that... but of course, I'm not sure if she should even be having that much cleavage anyway (see bulletpoint #3).
  
  
• You drew Elaine's breasts like they were water balloons. I know that avistew said to "Think water balloons" when drawing breasts, but don't misconstrue that as "Draw breasts as water balloons." She was only referring to the way breasts change shape depending on how a woman's positioned, not to how they're shaped. In reality, breasts aren't as full-looking or rounded as water balloons. For this part, let's take a look at a painting by the King of Fantasy Curvy Women, Frank Frazetta, which I've redlined and flipped for your convenience:
  
  
  
  (By the way, if drawing well-endowed women is your thing, you really ought to study this guy's art if you haven't already. I assure you that every Western professional 'sexy girl' artist today was influenced one way or another by Frank Frazetta. Also, here's the full image.)
  
  Notice that the top of her breast is almost a flat plane instead of being swollen. Even if they're large, breasts are just naturally going to sag a little without some support. Which brings me to my next point...
  
  
• Is Elaine wearing a bra or not? Honestly, it's kind of hard to tell. The subtle nippleage and the way they stick out of her ribcage without anything holding them back suggests that she's not wearing a bra. BUT, on the other hand, there's no way her breasts can be lifted up like that without support. Additionally, well, hopefully you know this already, but I HAVE met guys who didn't, so I'm going to say it anyway... no woman can have tight cleavage like that without support. No matter what cup size she has, there's always going to be a gap between her breasts. The only way a woman can achieve epic cleavage like that you've given Elaine here is if she was wearing a push-up bra. Just take a look at any girl in a bikini and you'll see a gap between their breasts, even when they're being held up. Of course, a push-up bra also compresses the breasts, and Elaine doesn't look like she has compressed breasts, so, uh, yeah. You really need to pick one or the other and stick with it.
  
  Lastly...
  
  
• Holy anorexic waist, Batman! I know you're trying to go for an exaggerated, cartoony look here, but exaggerating proportions do not give you free rein to do whatever you want. Take a look at the example I've got below:
  
  
  
  Now, I'm not saying that your proportions are Liefeld-caliber, but they're a little too close for comfort right now. Part of the problem, I think, is that you've drawn a woman who has an enormous chest but looks to be starving underneath her skintight clothes. Unless you get surgery, that just isn't possible. Take a look at Bruce Timm's Wonder Woman picture. Girl's got a heck of a waist, fo' sho, but at least she has a normal-sized chest to balance it out (also notice that her breasts are round and perky only because her costume has support, and even then, there's still a visible gap between them). Now take a look at Rob Liefeld's picture. He tried to go all the way by giving the woman a huge chest (and a huge, oblong ribcage for some reason) and a stick waist, and the results are terrible. The key to exaggeration is to purposefully exaggerate body parts in a way that makes sense. Bruce Timm knows that; Rob Liefeld doesn't.
  
  Also, notice that, like you, Liefeld decided to accentuate her ribcage, which is definitely what completes the 'starved' look. That is the main difference between someone who's just thin and someone who's anorexic: whether or not you can see his or her ribcage sticking out. So unless you want an anorexic look, you ought to put on some flesh between the ribcage and waist. Not only will Elaine look healthier, but it will actually help define her waist better!

Okay, so, that's all I can think of for now. Since you mentioned earlier that you want to start drawing women with smaller or at least normal-sized breasts, I'm going to direct you to some excellent sites for reference pictures of women in a variety of poses. However, since there's a lot of nudity (albeit tasteful, artistic nudity) on these sites, I'm just going to send them to you in a PM so I don't get banned. So take at look at those, draw some more, and have fun!

[Avistew]

Great post, Cello!
I love how you illustrated it all with various references.

[Secret Fawful]

Originally Posted by DoctorCello

Hope I wasn't late to the constructive criticism party! I just wanted to mention a few things that haven't been brought up yet.

I appreciate all critique, man, and you've provided some great stuff. I find it hilarious that most of the mistakes I make are in the breasts; that's just way too funny.

[*]It looks like Elaine just went out naked and painted her top on. Even if she was supposed to be wearing a super-tight shirt (which she shouldn't be), the shirt still wouldn't be clinging to the skin like that. Take a lot at this photo of Hilary Duff with a tight babydoll:



See what's happening to the fabric in-between the breasts; it's not clinging, but rather it's just stretching from boob-to-boob. With the exception of spandex and other dance/fitness knits, no fabric can cling to every inch of a woman's rack, especially if she's got a large one. This is true even when she's got cleavage like that... but of course, I'm not sure if she should even be having that much cleavage anyway (see bulletpoint #3).

Well, to start off, I will say that I did give the left (our left) breast a little too much lift. As far as the cling, actually fabric can cling to a woman like that, although not in the cleavage, which you can see here -

A difference here is that my breast is higher than hers is. However, Elaine's right breast I do believe carries perfect weight and is low enough. As far as the cleavage, there's a simple reason why there's too much. I drew the entire outline of the breasts, which was a bad decision. I didn't have any reasoning for it, and it does show my inexperience with breasts. I definitely don't think that the fabric can cling to the cleavage as I drew it, but I do think that it can cling to the outside areas as I drew it. Now, one big difference between Elaine and the example I posted as well is that the woman in the example has implants, and Elaine does not. However, the reason Elaine looks as if she does is because I wasn't really interested in drawing the breasts realistically when I did, and wanted to exaggerate and balloon them. Anyway, you're correct, cleavage = not right. So I fixed it. I also fixed the right boob as avistew suggested.

CHANGE 1-

[*]You drew Elaine's breasts like they were water balloons. I know that avistew said to "Think water balloons" when drawing breasts, but don't misconstrue that as "Draw breasts as water balloons." She was only referring to the way breasts change shape depending on how a woman's positioned, not to how they're shaped. In reality, breasts aren't as full-looking or rounded as water balloons. For this part, let's take a look at a painting by the King of Fantasy Curvy Women, Frank Frazetta, which I've redlined and flipped for your convenience:



(By the way, if drawing well-endowed women is your thing, you really ought to study this guy's art if you haven't already. I assure you that every Western professional 'sexy girl' artist today was influenced one way or another by Frank Frazetta. Also, here's the full image.)

Notice that the top of her breast is almost a flat plane instead of being swollen. Even if they're large, breasts are just naturally going to sag a little without some support. Which brings me to my next point...

In this case, I did draw it as in the picture you posted, but the way I drew it masks that because of the way the outlines are drawn, outside of the waist.


As you can see the outlines are basically the same, but the outlines of her coat gets in the way of the outline of the folds around her actual breast in her shirt. The main problem is that the left breast is still a little too high. So I fixed that too. I had to significantly reduce the top of the breast, but it's much more..er...fixed now.

CHANGE 2-

[*]Is Elaine wearing a bra or not? Honestly, it's kind of hard to tell. The subtle nippleage and the way they stick out of her ribcage without anything holding them back suggests that she's not wearing a bra. BUT, on the other hand, there's no way her breasts can be lifted up like that without support. Additionally, well, hopefully you know this already, but I HAVE met guys who didn't, so I'm going to say it anyway... no woman can have tight cleavage like that without support. No matter what cup size she has, there's always going to be a gap between her breasts. The only way a woman can achieve epic cleavage like that you've given Elaine here is if she was wearing a push-up bra. Just take a look at any girl in a bikini and you'll see a gap between their breasts, even when they're being held up. Of course, a push-up bra also compresses the breasts, and Elaine doesn't look like she has compressed breasts, so, uh, yeah. You really need to pick one or the other and stick with it.

Lastly...

She wasn't supposed to be wearing a bra. I rarely put enough thought into drawing breasts, with my inexperience in that matter, to draw it as if the woman is wearing a bra, so I throw the bra out altogether. I know as I get better, that will leave and I'll be able to work some bra-tastic magic. Since the "epic cleavage " is gone now, well I don't know where that leaves it. I definitely knew that cleavage like that needs support or else the breasts will go to the sides, but it didn't hit my thoughts when making this picture. As far as picking one or the other, I'd rather be able to draw both with or without bra.

[*]Holy anorexic waist, Batman! I know you're trying to go for an exaggerated, cartoony look here, but exaggerating proportions do not give you free rein to do whatever you want. Take a look at the example I've got below:



Now, I'm not saying that your proportions are Liefeld-caliber, but they're a little too close for comfort right now. Part of the problem, I think, is that you've drawn a woman who has an enormous chest but looks to be starving underneath her skintight clothes. Unless you get surgery, that just isn't possible. Take a look at Bruce Timm's Wonder Woman picture. Girl's got a heck of a waist, fo' sho, but at least she has a normal-sized chest to balance it out (also notice that her breasts are round and perky only because her costume has support, and even then, there's still a visible gap between them). Now take a look at Rob Liefeld's picture. He tried to go all the way by giving the woman a huge chest (and a huge, oblong ribcage for some reason) and a stick waist, and the results are terrible. The key to exaggeration is to purposefully exaggerate body parts in a way that makes sense. Bruce Timm knows that; Rob Liefeld doesn't.

Also, notice that, like you, Liefeld decided to accentuate her ribcage, which is definitely what completes the 'starved' look. That is the main difference between someone who's just thin and someone who's anorexic: whether or not you can see his or her ribcage sticking out. So unless you want an anorexic look, you ought to put on some flesh between the ribcage and waist. Not only will Elaine look healthier, but it will actually help define her waist better!

The exaggerated waist is due to the fact that I study Roger Jackson's art style, and his art tends to..well..



yeah. As well as Shirow Masamune, who also tends to do anorexic waists (and everything else) up the wazoo-



However, I don't ALWAYS draw the exaggerated waist.

I also study and tend to imitate Bruce Timm a lot when it comes to women, as well as Utility Pole Spirit, who draws a lot of large breasts mixed with wide waists-


However in this case, I think again its a matter of the outlines messing up the impression. I wasn't emphasizing her ribs (ugh! nasty! I despise it when artists show ribs through the skin). Here I'll show you what I mean.



Here is where her waist is, and the actual outline of it, and here-



-is where her hips are. The "emphasizing of her ribs" is just the folds and form of her clothing, but I tend to draw those folds at that area of the body more jagged, while I draw folds on the sleeves and pants round and loopy.
So I widened the waist a bit and removed or shortened the folds so its easier to see the waist outline. If it's still too thin, let me know.

Final Change-

Okay, so, that's all I can think of for now. Since you mentioned earlier that you want to start drawing women with smaller or at least normal-sized breasts, I'm going to direct you to some excellent sites for reference pictures of women in a variety of poses. However, since there's a lot of nudity (albeit tasteful, artistic nudity) on these sites, I'm just going to send them to you in a PM so I don't get banned. So take at look at those, draw some more, and have fun!

I can draw women with more normal sized breasts, and do, just not as often as the well-endowed I showcased here. It's not that I want to stop drawing well-endowed, I just want to draw equally of both, and I definitely thank you for the references you sent me. Now I don't know if I felt as if I HAD to edit the picture, but I wanted to see if I fixed any of the problems that were in it before.

EDIT: I noticed in the picture you posted of Frazetta's drawing that my waist was still off on the left side, so I edited it again.

[Dadel]

Sweet. More boob info

Originally Posted by DoctorCello

Try to draw a spine to the "Not sexy" picture. Disturbing.

[DoctorCello]

Originally Posted by Secret Fawful

Well, to start off, I will say that I did give the left (our left) breast a little too much lift. As far as the cling, actually fabric can cling to a woman like that, although not in the cleavage, which you can see here -
[insert horrifying picture of Dolly Parton that doesn't need to be reposted ever again]

Well, I was specifically referring to how it doesn't cling to the cleavage. Sorry if I wasn't clear the first time around. Still, it isn't because of the fabric that the jacket is form-fitting, it's just tailored that way. But I digress, really... I guess I'm still a little confused as to why you gave Elaine skin-tight clothes in the first place, since that's not what she wears in the game (her vest and blouse are very loose) and it doesn't really fit her character. If Elaine wanted to be sexy, she wouldn't be wearing a tight blouse with no breast support, she'd be wearing fishnets and a corset or something.

A difference here is that my breast is higher than hers is. However, Elaine's right breast I do believe carries perfect weight and is low enough. As far as the cleavage, there's a simple reason why there's too much. I drew the entire outline of the breasts, which was a bad decision. I didn't have any reasoning for it, and it does show my inexperience with breasts. I definitely don't think that the fabric can cling to the cleavage as I drew it, but I do think that it can cling to the outside areas as I drew it. Now, one big difference between Elaine and the example I posted as well is that the woman in the example has implants, and Elaine does not. However, the reason Elaine looks as if she does is because I wasn't really interested in drawing the breasts realistically when I did, and wanted to exaggerate and balloon them. Anyway, you're correct, cleavage = not right. So I fixed it. I also fixed the right boob as avistew suggested.

Okay, I'm now going to get into something that I should have brought up in my first post: Elaine isn't exactly the bustiest girl, so I'm not really sure why you drew her as such. Honestly, she's a C-cup at most. The whole point of exaggeration is to take what's especially obvious of a figure and, well, exaggerate it. Taking Elane's bust, which is average-sized at best, and enlarging it a lot isn't exaggeration, it's modifying her character completely. With Elaine (at least in Tales), her most obvious feature is her hips, so why not focus on those? It's good that you took out the cleavage, though, and I like the creases on the fabric.

In this case, I did draw it as in the picture you posted, but the way I drew it masks that because of the way the outlines are drawn, outside of the waist.
[insert pictures]
As you can see the outlines are basically the same, but the outlines of her coat gets in the way of the outline of the folds around her actual breast in her shirt. The main problem is that the left breast is still a little too high. So I fixed that too. I had to significantly reduce the top of the breast, but it's much more..er...fixed now.

Eh, I think the top of her left breast could still be a tad flatter, but the main issue is ultimately that her breasts are too big. Still, looks a lot better than before.

She wasn't supposed to be wearing a bra. I rarely put enough thought into drawing breasts, with my inexperience in that matter, to draw it as if the woman is wearing a bra, so I throw the bra out altogether. I know as I get better, that will leave and I'll be able to work some bra-tastic magic. Since the "epic cleavage " is gone now, well I don't know where that leaves it. I definitely knew that cleavage like that needs support or else the breasts will go to the sides, but it didn't hit my thoughts when making this picture. As far as picking one or the other, I'd rather be able to draw both with or without bra.

Not to be rude, but... drawing women with breast support isn't as hard as you make it out to be. Just study women with actual clothes on. Again, it's really out-of-character for Elaine to be going out like that, so I don't know why you've drawn her like that. On a sidenote, though, I've heard that Elaine probably wears a corset instead of a bra, as was custom back in that age. But then again, this is Monkey Island, so anything goes I guess!

The exaggerated waist is due to the fact that I study Roger Jackson's art style, and his art tends to..well..

UHHHHHH... I wouldn't... copy that guy's art, or at least copy his proportions. I know this is going to sound rude, but it looks like this guy learned his anatomy from Rob Liefeld, and that's reeeeeally not something to be proud of.

yeah. As well as Shirow Masamune, who also tends to do anorexic waists (and everything else) up the wazoo-

Actually, I wouldn't call that anorexic. In fact, she looks very athletic; look at those abs, man! And notice that her hips and bust are fairly small as well (well, okay, her bust is a little big in proportion to the rest of her body, but it isn't over-the-top so it's believable), so overall she's got a pretty well-proportioned body.

However, I don't ALWAYS draw the exaggerated waist.

I also study and tend to imitate Bruce Timm a lot when it comes to women, as well as Utility Pole Spirit, who draws a lot of large breasts mixed with wide waists-

However in this case, I think again its a matter of the outlines messing up the impression. I wasn't emphasizing her ribs (ugh! nasty! I despise it when artists show ribs through the skin). Here I'll show you what I mean.

Here is where her waist is, and the actual outline of it, and here-

-is where her hips are. The "emphasizing of her ribs" is just the folds and form of her clothing, but I tend to draw those folds at that area of the body more jagged, while I draw folds on the sleeves and pants round and loopy.
So I widened the waist a bit and removed or shortened the folds so its easier to see the waist outline. If it's still too thin, let me know.

Okay, I'm kind of tired at this point and I'm not sure if I'd be able to explain myself correctly with words, so screw it. Look at the redlining below and if you have any questions about it, go ahead and shoot:

I can draw women with more normal sized breasts, and do, just not as often as the well-endowed I showcased here. It's not that I want to stop drawing well-endowed, I just want to draw equally of both, and I definitely thank you for the references you sent me. Now I don't know if I felt as if I HAD to edit the picture, but I wanted to see if I fixed any of the problems that were in it before.

Well, you've definitely improved the shape of the breasts, that's for sure. But, really... At this point, I guess I'm really curious to know why you draw Elaine and Morgan with such exaggerated breasts in the first place. Don't take this the wrong way, there's nothing inherently wrong with drawing big breasts, but drawing them on characters that don't have them in the first place?

[Joop]

It's fan art. You can change proportions the way you see fit.
I don't usually like fan art that much, but this way, I keep watching. ^^

[Giant Tope]

Originally Posted by Joop

It's fan art. You can change proportions the way you see fit.
I don't usually like fan art that much, but this way, I keep watching. ^^

Yeah but I could very well draw elaine with man proportions and say that's just the way i draw fan art of elaine. ...oh wait.

[GuruGuru214]

Originally Posted by Giant Tope

Yeah but I could very well draw elaine with man proportions and say that's just the way i draw fan art of elaine. ...oh wait.

Originally Posted by Giant Tope

So I decided to Mann up and colored this pic. This took way longer to do than a joke picture should take to finish.



I might fix some coloring stuff later, but for now I'm too tired to really notice any major problems.

lessons learned. feathers aren't fun to color.

Yes, I did recently try out Phoenix Wright. Why do you ask?

[Irishmile]

Man.... you guys are going to make it so artists are afraid to share anything if you rip apart every little detail about the piece

[Chyron8472]

Fawful, I think it looks great. You did a good job. The changes do make it look more real, but comic art doesn't always have to mimic real-life. You can have your own style and that's just fine. I like it.

[edit] just don't copy Rob Liefeld's style, lol.[/edit]

Originally Posted by Irishmile

Man.... you guys are going to make it so artists are afraid to share anything if you rip apart every little detail about the piece

Agreed.

For some reason, I'm hearing the voice of Linkara in my head saying "...the alchemy machine from Sultry Teenage Super Foxes #1 that turns dog poop into gold."

[The Highway]

wait, this isnt the disturbing fanart thread... and yet there's THIS! Oh, God, what kind of crazy-&*^%ed up stuff is going on in there!

[Secret Fawful]

Originally Posted by Irishmile

Man.... you guys are going to make it so artists are afraid to share anything if you rip apart every little detail about the piece

Yeah, but, I asked for the critique. I don't mind; it's part of why I post art.

It's not that I feel like the drawings were terrible to begin with, or terrible at all, nor do I feel obligated to please everybody. I'm just willing to show that I don't know everything, and accept advice from others willing to share it.

[Giant Tope]

... wtf, someone split the topic wrong.

[Will]

I fail forum management. FIXED.... ish

[Dadel]

I like where this is going.

[apenpaap]

Originally Posted by Secret Fawful

Yeah, but, I asked for the critique. I don't mind; it's part of why I post art.

It's not that I feel like the drawings were terrible to begin with, or terrible at all, nor do I feel obligated to please everybody. I'm just willing to show that I don't know everything, and accept advice from others willing to share it.

May I offer one piece of advice too: You need to tone down her left eye a bit. As it is now, it looks like it goes all the way to her ear.

[Jen Kollic]

Huh, and there was me thinking "WTF? I don't remember starting an artistic discussion about boobs... though that does sound like the kind of topic I'd enjoy" but it all makes sense now.

All of Doctor Cello's points are very good... though I notice they don't seem to be in this thread, which is a pity. (ETA: Fixed! Never mind!) I think I've developed a tolerance to seeing women with relatively small chests being drawn with much larger... assets, mostly thanks to DC comics (WTF Harley Quinn is not a D-cup!) and Rule #34. Also, proportions in Tales are pretty skewy to begin with, exhibit A: Morgan. She might not have a large chest, but she has HUEG hips and thighs, and tiny, tiny ankles. A lot of fanart I've seen of her seems to reduce the size of her thighs and add it on to her chest instead. For the record, my personal theory is that despite her curvy hips, Morgan is not naturally well-endowed in the breast department, and wears a corset to give herself the cleavage that she would otherwise lack.

Also, failure to understand how breasts work is not necessarily confined to men. My mother once asked me "don't your breasts get in the way?" in regards to sleeping with other women, and I had to point out that no, they're not airbags. Apparently the topic had come up in conversation at her work, and naturally her response to her co-workers was 'I know, I'll ask my gay daughter'. Sigh.

[Secret Fawful]

This topic has the potential to become epic.

Originally Posted by DoctorCello

Well, I was specifically referring to how it doesn't cling to the cleavage. Sorry if I wasn't clear the first time around. Still, it isn't because of the fabric that the jacket is form-fitting, it's just tailored that way. But I digress, really... I guess I'm still a little confused as to why you gave Elaine skin-tight clothes in the first place, since that's not what she wears in the game (her vest and blouse are very loose) and it doesn't really fit her character. If Elaine wanted to be sexy, she wouldn't be wearing a tight blouse with no breast support, she'd be wearing fishnets and a corset or something.

Being busty isn't always a matter of trying to look sexy. If you got it, there's nothing you can do about it.

Okay, I'm now going to get into something that I should have brought up in my first post: Elaine isn't exactly the bustiest girl, so I'm not really sure why you drew her as such. Honestly, she's a C-cup at most. The whole point of exaggeration is to take what's especially obvious of a figure and, well, exaggerate it. Taking Elane's bust, which is average-sized at best, and enlarging it a lot isn't exaggeration, it's modifying her character completely. With Elaine (at least in Tales), her most obvious feature is her hips, so why not focus on those? It's good that you took out the cleavage, though, and I like the creases on the fabric.

Different interpretation. My Elaine is busty. Theirs is not. In my opinion Elaine from the first two games is bustier than what she is now, but there's no real evidence to support this. It's just my opinion, and shes still never been as busty as I made her.

Not to be rude, but... drawing women with breast support isn't as hard as you make it out to be. Just study women with actual clothes on. Again, it's really out-of-character for Elaine to be going out like that, so I don't know why you've drawn her like that. On a sidenote, though, I've heard that Elaine probably wears a corset instead of a bra, as was custom back in that age. But then again, this is Monkey Island, so anything goes I guess!

It's hard for me, at least right now anyway. That'll leave me in time.

Okay, I'm kind of tired at this point and I'm not sure if I'd be able to explain myself correctly with words, so screw it. Look at the redlining below and if you have any questions about it, go ahead and shoot:

You explained yourself great so far, and I still appreciate the effort you put into your critique.

Well, you've definitely improved the shape of the breasts, that's for sure. But, really... At this point, I guess I'm really curious to know why you draw Elaine and Morgan with such exaggerated breasts in the first place. Don't take this the wrong way, there's nothing inherently wrong with drawing big breasts, but drawing them on characters that don't have them in the first place?

Like I said. Different interpretation. The essence of the characters isn't going to leave them with an enhanced bust. If you want it to be canon, we can say that while sparring in the jungle, Elaine and Morgan fell into a mysterious pool that grew their breasts to enormous proportions.

Originally Posted by apenpaap

May I offer one piece of advice too: You need to tone down her left eye a bit. As it is now, it looks like it goes all the way to her ear.

Sure.

Originally Posted by Jen Kollic

All of Doctor Cello's points are very good... though I notice they don't seem to be in this thread, which is a pity. (ETA: Fixed! Never mind!) I think I've developed a tolerance to seeing women with relatively small chests being drawn with much larger... assets, mostly thanks to DC comics (WTF Harley Quinn is not a D-cup!) and Rule #34. Also, proportions in Tales are pretty skewy to begin with, exhibit A: Morgan. She might not have a large chest, but she has HUEG hips and thighs, and tiny, tiny ankles. A lot of fanart I've seen of her seems to reduce the size of her thighs and add it on to her chest instead. For the record, my personal theory is that despite her curvy hips, Morgan is not naturally well-endowed in the breast department, and wears a corset to give herself the cleavage that she would otherwise lack.

As far as DC Comics, another artist I study is Jim Lee, however, moreso in how he draws men. I dislike how he draws his characters in one sense though because they all look the same.

[Avistew]

It looks much better, Fawful.

I'm used to people drawing huge breasts and you're not as bad as some people I know. And I personally don't see it as a "canon" representation of either Morgan or Elaine, so I see the bigger-than-they-should be breasts as absolutely voluntary and put there because you want it so. Which you know, why not, I guess.

A woman with these kind of breasts is never going to look 100% realistic, even if you make her less thin. However the changes you made help a lot, and I'm pretty sure you weren't trying to be realistic in the first place.

I've been thinking of posting pictures to help with the physics of it but I need y husband back so he can take them. So maybe tomorrow or later tonight.

Anyway, I do have to say a few things:

a) You didn't give her helium breasts. They do have some gravity to them. They're not super-high or anything. That's one mistake that really makes breasts look fake so it's good that you didn't make it.

b) Although these breasts are too big for my (and a lot of people's) conception of Elaine, they are still a realistic size. It's possible to have breasts that size. So what I mean is she still looks human, which is nice.

I find it funny that we're commenting so much on her breasts when her face is definitely not realistic at all and apart from the comment on the one eye, nobody seems to have a problem with that :P