Money?

[Avistew]

Originally Posted by The Highway

aaah, i see. also something that's private: family issues. you don't go screaming them out where everyone can hear them. right? not at the supermarket or anything? I saw a lady divorcing her husband over what type of lettuce they were buying once :P

Hahaha I thought you were telling me to shut up with my anecdotes until I read the end.
They were probably just arguing though. Unless you had a follow-up and know they did divorce over it. And I totally vote for romaine.

[The Highway]

i stalked them home and watched her throw things at him. totally.

[Rather Dashing]

Originally Posted by avistew

it helps know if you can suggest a date (you can use that word for non-romantic stuff, right?)

Yes, but I don't see it used like that often. "Date" in a non-romantic sense is uncommon enough that its use is played off as humor in sitcoms and the like. Context usually helps, but it's often best to just clarify.

--------

Now, when it comes to money, I am not going to offer up how much I make unless it's relevant. I'm not going to avoid saying how much I make if it is important to the situation at hand. I don't care if somebody knows, it just seems like I'm "comparing" myself to other people in a way that says "I'm a higher/lower class of person than you". I think it's because US culture puts so much emphasis and importance on the idea of independence and earning your living. There's this sort of idea that "I don't want to say I'm better than/worse than that guy because I make more/less than them." In my experience, it's not a mean-spirited secret or something to hide, it's just that it feels rude to try and compare the main thing that defines your "class".

The cultural taboos of money much varies by person, of course. I have a rough idea of what my best friend makes, for instance, and he has a rough idea of how much I make. I only have an idea of what my parents make, but that's just because I know the value of their houses(they're divorced), a rough estimate of their stock values(my father has been trying to teach me about stocks and investing), and I have an idea of how much they spend on recreation in a month. That still leaves a lot of holes, but I think I have a basic idea. And my parents know how much I make simply because they want to help me with finances(in an advice sort of way, less a giving me money sort of way), and because I think my father's generally better at this sort of thing than I am I'm fine with the assistance.

[puzzlebox]

Other than the "supporting your friends/family" thing that others have mentioned, I don't care how much people have or don't have. Earning more or less doesn't make you a better or worse person either way.

Also, once you have a salary that affords a certain level of comfort, there are so many things in life that are more important than earning MORE MORE MORE. I guess I earn a decent living now but I had to work very hard to get (and stay) there.

Ironically, however, money is not really a major motivator for me. Far more important are interpersonal relationships and an attitude of "not letting the team down". I have fantastic colleagues and the most amazing manager that anyone could wish for. The thought of disappointing those people I admire and respect is akin to that of sticking my hand in a blender - it would be very painful, and is something to be avoided at all costs.

The outcome of that is working hard whenever it's necessary, which tends to make a valuable employee, which brings financial rewards. Things like pay rises and bonuses are less important to me now in terms of having extra cash, and more important in terms of making me feel valued. Companies will throw money around to attract and retain excellent people. It's an external indicator of how good a job I'm doing, and I need to know that I'm doing a great job.

At school, I chased awards/high grades/scholarships because they were an objective measure of how good I was. Now, in my work, money has to some extent replaced grades as the measure of performance. If I was an academic, that measure would be the number of students turning up at my lectures, the number of papers I got published in peer-reviewed journals.

...

Basically, my entire life probably revolves around a deep and insatiable need for the approval of others. There's no way I could do a job where I was well paid but felt hated.

[Avistew]

Originally Posted by puzzlebox

Basically, my entire life probably revolves around a deep and insatiable need for the approval of others.

That sounds to me like most people. I think a lot of us are just trying to get approval in some way or other. Some people are nice hoping to be loved, some people want power, some want to be feared, etc.
I think even when we're trying to make other people happy, deep down it's because it makes us feel better about ourselves. Like "I did something right", you know?
I don't know many people who dislike sincere compliments, and even trolls and the like are craving attention - sometimes bad attention is better than none.

Maybe I'm getting philosophical here, but I feel that we all have that want to be accepted for what we are and that fear of rejection, although it might be to a different extent depending on the person.

[puzzlebox]

Originally Posted by avistew

I think even when we're trying to make other people happy, deep down it's because it makes us feel better about ourselves. Like "I did something right", you know?

I really, really love making the people I love happy. It's just about the most important thing in the world to me. The broader populace I don't care about so much.

Originally Posted by avistew

I don't know many people who dislike sincere compliments, and even trolls and the like are craving attention - sometimes bad attention is better than none.

I agree, and guess it's one reason why I'm pretty forgiving of some "idiosyncrasies".

Originally Posted by avistew

Maybe I'm getting philosophical here, but I feel that we all have that want to be accepted for what we are and that fear of rejection, although it might be to a different extent depending on the person.

Oh, absolutely. Although for me it's not so much that I fear rejection as that I enjoy people - I love figuring out what makes them "THEM", what's important, why they are who they are. Rejection is kind of neutral, I can deal with it, but getting to know someone is wonderful. Analytical nerdage meets social butterfly maybe.

[Armand1880]

I love good stories and seeing into people's lives. I've noticed not a lot of people are talking about exact numbers, and I hope no one gets offended when I do. You'll see its nothing to brag about - they are just numbers.

When I was 21, I moved out of my mother's house. My twin brother is still there (almost 4 years later). She was very oppressive and manipulative. She paid for everything, but I paid for it later. I decided it was time to move out and do college on my own (I was starting my 3rd year). My mother makes close to $200K a year, and I worked part time for $11 an hour at the school bookstore. I got student loans and married my wife a year later. Two years after I moved out of my mothers, and right when I got back from my honeymoon, I got offered a full time job at the bookstore I worked at (managing the textbook department) , and I finished college and am still at this job.

My wife is finishing school and makes about $16K at her part time job. When she graduates as a Registered Nurse she'll start around $40K. I make about $35K. We just bought our first house - a bit big (2,100 sq ft) for me but with the real estate market in the dumps like it is, we got a great deal. Right now it's a bit of a squeeze, because we're finishing up getting new windows and start-up bills. We're putting a lot more on our credit card than I wanted to, but we're also getting $8,000 from the government just for buying a new house. Go USA. When that comes in it'll wipe out most of that CC debt.

We have close to $18,000 in student loans (most of our friends have over $40,000 - $60,000 in student loans) and no car loans. We don't go out much. Our entertainment is mostly netflix and Hulu. We don't spend much on extras - we did splurge on a 50" tv (3 years no interest, almost paid off after 1 year).

I grew up in a family that was very centered on money (which is partly why my dad divorced my mom when I was 17 - couldn't live up to expectations...no hard feelings, he made the right choice, we're close - haven't spoken to my mother in 2 years), so with the money we will make when my wife is full time in her field we'll be very comfortable. According to my family, we might not be doing well - but we're very happy and comfortable. We make more than enough money for me to splurge every few months and pick up a new game. As a PC gamer it's nice to wait a few months and get the games when they go down in price (Wii games I can get used a year or so after they come out). I love telltale though, because you can always get coupons, and a full game is only $35 which is great. I did get all of Strong Bad over the course of a year using free episode coupons, which is nice.

Either way, I'm almost 25 and my wife is almost 24 - we're happier than we ever could be and completely blessed. I don't feel the need to live up to anyone's standards anymore but those of my wife and I for ourselves.

[Avistew]

Sounds like you're having a happy life! The mere idea of being in debt scares the hell out of me (neither I nor my husband have ever had a credit card) but you seem to have done what works for you and to be on your way to pay it off.

As I said earlier, the hardest part is often figuring out what works for you rather than doing what you think is expected from you. So kudos on living your own way and not by your mom's standards

[WarpSpeed]

Congrats, Armand! Sounds like you're on your way! Don't be a slave to Big Money!

[Little Writer]

When people suddenly turn all quiet when it comes to how much money they earn, I always assume it's because they don't want people pointing at them to give more when it comes to charity events or the like. Also, I think they don't want to make themselves targets for thieves and such.

We went to a friend's house a while back and I noticed he had a PS3, an X-Box and a Wii, and I thought immediately he must be earning it big time, but I didn't say anything out loud. I did mention what a hard time I have of trying to save for a luxury item like that, and how whenever I gathered some cash something would come up and I'd have to spend it on other things. He just couldn't grasp that problem.

At work, we always collect money for gifts when somebody gets married or has a baby. But that's been the case for many colleagues the last year, and even though the amount isn't that big, I still feel bad about it, wishing I could keep it. I'm down to €6,73 in my wallet right now, and that's after two months of "saving".

[Avistew]

Originally Posted by Little Writer

We went to a friend's house a while back and I noticed he had a PS3, an X-Box and a Wii, and I thought immediately he must be earning it big time, but I didn't say anything out loud. I did mention what a hard time I have of trying to save for a luxury item like that, and how whenever I gathered some cash something would come up and I'd have to spend it on other things. He just couldn't grasp that problem.

I know a guy who has all 3 and seems to buy every game that comes out for them, but isn't earning very much and keeps having trouble making ends meet. He doesn't grasp the idea of the consoles being a luxury item, but that's not because he's rich. I think it boils down to the "priority" thing we discussed earlier (although when it results in getting kicked out of your place or rarely eating two meals, I think it starts being a problem).

Originally Posted by Little Writer

At work, we always collect money for gifts when somebody gets married or has a baby.

If you don't mind me saying that, it sounds incredibly unfair. Do you also give money to people who get a new car, go on a trip they're really looking forward to or, I don't know, adopt a pet, get a console, etc?
I say that as a married person, both getting married and having kids are personal choices and there is absolutely no reason whatsoever why anyone should be forced to give money. First, they should have saved up the money themselves first. And next, if people give them something, it should be because they want to, not because they happen to work in the same place.
But hey, I'm weird with stuff like that I guess. I didn't accept gifts on my wedding because it seemed totally unfair: people already had to spend money to take a day off or just come to the wedding itself, and then I was going to make them pay for something I was 100% responsible for? Plus it's a happy occasion, I understand giving money to someone who's had an accident or something, to make them feel better and because it was totally unplanned, but normally you don't need to feel better when happy stuff is already happening to you, and if it's planned you're prepared for it.
A couple of people brought gifts anyways, and it was nice (I didn't outlaw them) but at least I knew they weren't forced to. And as I told everyone, the real gift is that they came so I could spend the whole day with them.

Sorry for going on a tangent, but I've just never understood these things. It seems so completely unfair that you, who have trouble making ends meet and could possibly be delaying your own wedding or your own plan to have children because you can't afford it, would need to pay for other people's.

And seriously, I'm sure most people who get married and have kids couldn't care less if their job collects money for them, so nobody even "wins" in cases like that.

[Avistew]

I found something that tells you how rich you are compared the the rest of the world based on your yearly income.

[Hyperkinetic_Martian]

Ah, money. What can we really say about it? That necessary evil that drives our ambitions and lives

As a university student, money is really tight for me right now, and will only get tighter when I (though I should really say "if" at this point) go abroad next year. Scholarships, grants, and a little rainy day fund we started years ago are the only things keeping me from drowning in debt. I get a little monthly income to keep me fed and through little budgeting and shopping-spree resistance, I have a little extra to put away and to splurge once in a while. So though I don't live extravagantly, I don't live uncomfortably either.

EDIT: Out of curiosity I checked out your link, avistew. In summary, I feel much more fortunate after seeing my percentage

[Avistew]

I just redid my budget so I thought I'd revive this thread.

I found this while looking for average/maximums (apparently maxima isn't a word) for categories to know where I stood.

You input your income and it shows the maximum amounts you should spend in a given category (except for savings, which is the minimum).

I totally don't fit with it at all. I sent it to a few friends and their comments matched ones. I know a lot of people don't like detailing money things too much, but I thought people might share if they spend more/less than the estimate in some categories? No need to say exactly by how much either, of course.

Here is how much I spend:

Housing: less
Transportation: currently N/A, always been much, much, much less (read, a fifth to a quarter of what they say, tops)
Debt: N/A
Food: less
Household: less, but close
Savings: much more
Everything else: about right

I also saw another one that recommended you spend 5% of your income on entertainment (which would be part of "everything else" in this one I assume). I spend more than that.

The two things the people I shared the figures with all agreed were:
- "They're crazy about transportation! Divide that by 2 or 3 at least!"
- "5% only for entertainment? That's asking for depression!"

But... The people I talked to had low to medium income (therefore 5% was often under 50 bucks a month, always under 200 bucks - for the whole household, not per person), and they didn't have cars. I assume the only reason transportation costs might get so high would be if you have a car (price of the car + price of the insurance + gas + repairs).

So... anyone else care to share their view on this?

For the record, these are obviously estimates, since there is no reason getting a raise would in itself cause you to pay more in rent, bills or transportation. So I didn't expect it to reflect my case exactly, but it was really very different from my own situation, and I'm wondering if there is anyone here who would look at it and think "Mh, yeah, about right".

[taumel]

You're a fascinating person in this respect. I think i've never meet a person online who is so extrovert and offering so much personal information. Feels refreshing and weird at the same time. No offense meant.

[Avistew]

Originally Posted by taumel

You're a fascinating person in this respect. I think i've never meet a person online who is so extrovert and offering so much personal information. Feels refreshing and weird at the same time. No offense meant.

Haha thank you. I guess I see no point in hiding it? I don't know, my family was pretty secretive about stuff, maybe I just rejected that completely?
It can be hard though to know if you're the "honest person who doesn't hide stuff" or the "weird person who keeps giving too much information".
Reading your post, maybe I'm both!

[taumel]

This forum definately would be less interesting without you!

[Didero]

You're a weird person who doesn't hide stuff, Avi

[Derp Y. Mail]

Still living with my parents, my dad's got a 10,000 dollar debt which causes us to live a bit poorly, I don't have a job despite my attempts to get them and I am in dire need of money with bills I can just barely pay and a girlfriend in England whom I want to visit but expenses are awful.

So no, thinking about money doesn't make me calm. It near on gives me anxiety attacks.


EDIT

HANG ON
I HAVE BEEN FOOLED
This thread was in the "Relevant threads" list below a Walking Dead thread. So I assumed it was active.

OH FIE.

[Darth Marsden]

Well, by admitting how and why you've bumped an old thread you've automatically cleared yourself of any blame... and any potential reprimands as well. Dash and bother. I was so looking forward to telling you off, too.